How many people hate the new idiot proof talent trees?

Сообщение от 161859

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Сообщение от Gnostik

OMG you're so right. This game has gotten so kiddie, we should all just go play Hello Kitty or Free Realms instead of this crap. I mean seriously, Blizzard must not realize that they have the most successful online game ever here, cuz all they want to do is cater to the teens and pre-teens! Cuz I mean, if I can't create a totally ineffective "hybrid" spec, or spread all my talent points around all 3 trees while I'm leveling up (remember when THAT was effective?) what's the point? Blizzard, wake up! Make it easier for me to screw up my talents, or I will be forced to conclude you only care about players 18 and under - who couldn't possibly have the mental wherewithal to figure this *!@# out! If I don't have to consult a spreadsheet or message board to figure which +5% talent will provide the bigger DPS boost, I DON'T WANT TO PLAY.

Сообщение от 466163

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Сообщение от JamieK

When it comes to doing heroics and raids, there is no such thing as spec variations, because all raid leaders and group leaders demand you to use the BEST spec for the class, for example, Druid, the raid/group leaders demand you to pick THE best spec for what spec you want to use, if you even pick a single talent point away from THE best spec, you suck and get kicked.

This change is accually good at preventing that, the topic creator is correct though, the talent specs are obvious, a Feral Druid can tank or do dps and the talents are seperated enough for you to see which is tank specific, dps specific or for both specs.

I remember that when i was playing on my elemental shaman and the spec that everyone said was the best was not giving me the dps i could get with my gear and for that, they called me crap, but when i tried my own unique spec, i did more dps, which was correct for my gear and like all elitists, they think the best spec is the only spec you can use and if you don't use it, you are a noob and do not belong in any heroics or raids.

Hell, i even couldn't get into a weekly raid group into naxx because they demanded a 6.9k gearscore, even though my character had cleared it several times on both 10man and 25man, thats when i moved from EU to US to play with my sisters guild, they are much more intelligent and play for the fun of it and not to just to win, like Elitists do.

Сообщение от 44284

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Сообщение от Spectrezh

With the new talent trees, it's really hard to go wrong with picking talents. The old system, you can always tell a person doesn't know his/her class by looking at their trees (well one way). They would have their talents in the most random places, here one, there one, picking up useless talents, etc. I once saw a Tri-build "ret" pally in protection/dps gear trying to do ToC 25...he scored a amazing 2000 dps!

Сообщение от Agoraphobic

What sort of moron would require LK25 man heroic gear for the entry level raid of Wrath?

The same that require 5.7k GS minimum for ICC10 reg. I saw someone post that last night.

Сообщение от xaratherus

I lose a lot more effectiveness due to bad gear than what I would lose by having a hybrid talent tree.

Of course the main reason I don't have good gear is because I don't raid or play PvP. Which, of course, means that I don't need good gear, since no one is depending on my DPS or tanking or healing abilities.

No one cares about my talent tree if my gear score is about 1500 (that's not an exaggeration, for the record). And I don't care about having the most effective talent tree because I don't need to be effective. Just "good enough" to be able to do the quests I want. Before the streamlined talent trees, I could easily achieve that goal.

Let me clarify my statements then as applying to people attempting to do end game content, hard modes, and PvP. I agree that someone who just randomly spent talent points could likely do every quest in the game - but this change wouldn't really affect them (or you) negatively then, would it? I mean, it isn't altering the effectiveness of what you're trying to do positively, or negatively.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the new talent trees. I don't really see the point, to be honest, we may as well choose a spec at level 10 and have it automatically filled out as we level.

But since there are still tons of ways to undermine effectiveness with a character, I'm really not getting the whole "but your tree is so much more effective now" argument.

Well, we're really talking about two different things. You're referring to the impact poor gear choices can make - and that really has nothing to do with the changes to the talent trees. Poor choices in your talent tree do have an impact in some situations in the game (raiding and PvP, primarily), so my apologies for not clarifying my statement by limiting it to those areas.

As for having the talent trees automatically filled out for you: Most classes aren't going to fill out 100% of their trees with an 'optimal' spec; some talents are still PvP-based, while some talents can be traded off for tiers in another tree that are more effective for the role you're wanting to play.

Сообщение от Pwntiff

xaratherus is quite right, on all his points in this thread. For every 100% viable (during 3.3.5) hybrid build you show me, I will show you 5 more that just don't work. Back when tri-spec was how you went DW as a DK, I tried it and felt gimped, because I felt like I was trying to be bad Rogue focusing more on white-damage then the spells farther down the tree. I also tried some crazy Scourge Strike/Mark of Blood Unholy/Blood Hybrid. Both lasted for less that two days before I was back to a variant of the cookie cutters.

Hybrids were never meant to be truly viable. The only downside that I foresaw with the change was things like Disc and Holy leveling specs not getting Spirit Tap, but I think they changed the trees and specializations around to deal with that.

Cookie cutters aren't evil, and the savvy raider changed some of the points around to take into account various fights and gear limitations. If you're mana/mana regen was high enough, you could drop those longevity talents for pure throughput or raid utility. If you're in a healer intense fight, you could drop some points from throughput or utility for increased survivability.

The new trees are an improvement, especially when you look at adding more to the trees in future expansions.

Believe it or not, some people do not raid. Yes, there is a theoretical best build for raiding, but some people will never raid. The best part of this game is that it is not just about one thing. You can raid, quest, do 5-man's, solo stuff, arena, bg, world pvp, or anything else you want to do. The new talent system basically says the only things that matter are arena and raids min/maxing.

How does it even do this? A lot of the points I took for various farming/questing builds but omitted for raiding now are some of the more attractive options for filler points in my raiding builds.

Сообщение от 207044

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Сообщение от Interest

What sort of moron would require LK25 man heroic gear for the entry level raid of Wrath?

It's because people are retarded Gearscore-obsessed imbeciles*

Fixed.

Сообщение от 464693

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Сообщение от 331902

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Сообщение от 466163

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Сообщение от 218246

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Сообщение от lockspwnbruh

No such thing as Idiot proof.

Sadly True, lmfao, people still find ways to fail at the new trees

Сообщение от Mozblue

From a single player point of view there is still a tone of choice there are 10 classes with 30 variations and within those there are a number of ways to play, different pets/demons lots of spells and abilities etc to be working out the rotation that suits you and the situation best. And that's before you start worrying about gear.

As has been shown by many a pen &paper role play group when you have to broad a choice it's too easy imba the system and in WoW you don't have a GM sat there to adjust the scenario accordingly or in some cases tell people the regardless of what the rules say you can't use those spells together.

Not sure the balance is quite in place yet but maybe with this new system all 3 class variants will be worth taking for each class.

Maybe even given them the chance to do some more heroic classes that don't hideously out balance the game.

Сообщение от 160546

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Сообщение от Adamsm

No such thing as Idiot proof.

Sadly True, lmfao, people still find ways to fail at the new trees

Got nothing to do with trees when it came to that comment.

Сообщение от Azazel

I <3 'em. Now I can have useless PvP talents and still be a decent raider!

How many people hate the new idiot proof talent trees?

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