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Сообщение от
298255
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Сообщение от
lonewarrior
Charging 5000gold for a major component of the game(fast flying mount)+1000 more for cold weather and not making it account binding.Um... what? The 5k gold was BC level, not Wrath....and it's not a major component; you don't
need
epic flying, you wanted it, so you saved up the gold and bought it. I agree on CWF though, and it should have had a discount added to it, especially for the BoA book.
The point I was making was that it wasn't part of the Wrath expansion. Price and level for mounts dropped yet the cost of a fast flier didn't. You may not think it's a major component and that's fine...but if you were playing this game before LFD...when you had to fly from flightmasters to dungeons and farm for mats a fast flier was/is a major component to get things done. At least they could have bound it to account so once you paid the 5000 all your toons needed only to acquire the mount and buy cold weather flying(which is bind to account).
Сообщение от
2259
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Сообщение от
Thror
Some people need to l2quote.
You know, you only really need to reply to the last post from the opponent. You do not have to reply to his reply to your reply to his reply to your reply.
/rainbow
Сообщение от
Varaconn
The point I was making was that it wasn't part of the Wrath expansion. Price and level for mounts dropped yet the cost of a fast flier didn't. You may not think it's a major component and that's fine...but if you were playing this game before LFD...when you had to fly from flightmasters to dungeons and farm for mats a fast flier was/is a major component to get things done. At least they could have bound it to account so once you paid the 5000 all your toons needed only to acquire the mount and buy cold weather flying(which is bind to account).
There's a lot ofself-entitlement in your post, so try not to talk down to other people whose play history you know nothing about. (Not that you should be talking down to anyone anyway. It just looks so much worse in this case.)
Epic flight is a luxury beyond what mounts already are. Regular flight used to be 60%. Since it got bumped, it's only become even more of a luxury.
Besides that, every one of my characters easily had the 5000 just from questing and selling gathered junk by the time they got to 77 to learn Cold Weather flying, with some gold left over. It's not hard to pay for.
Сообщение от
wolfeyoung
I feel that what made Vanilla/TBC hard was the raid size requirement. 40/25 mans take more time and skill to put together. And it is that component that I feel was number one reason that was preventing players from seeing more content. Was the content harder? I don't think so. Was it harder to organize 24 other people into doing a single action. Yes. The lack of consistent 10 man content kept guilds from progressing as far as their skill would take them.
I like the idea in cata of there being only a 10 and 25 man raids, that share the same lockout, and should be on the same difficulty level. This way, you can have a small guild or a large guild and actually choose your path and not feel you have to spread yourself out between a lot of raids.
One of things that I dislike in LK was the four difficulty levels.
I do wish Blizzard would bring back raid progression. I liked to environment. You had your KZ guilds, then you had your SCC/TK guilds, then you had the TK/Hyjal guilds, then of course, the BT/Hyjal guilds. It made the servers smaller and therefore created a bit of a community.
I started playing midway through TBC. I was in a small guild that had a hard time finding people for any 25 man content. But I always felt that what I had accomplished was truly good. I had fun. There was no elitist attitude in me. I was not geared in anything more then KZ gear, with a piece or two of Gruul/Mag gear. Lots of people out geared me. I knew it then. But that wasn't the point. The gear I had, I worked for and I knew it.
Every piece of gear I have now, came at some much less effort.
Some people throw the argument of "where's your 25man heroic LK kill". Nope. I don't have it. I have, however, killed the lick king. Lots of times. Why should I kill him again, only this time the numbers are bigger?
Before, when a player fought a harder boss, it was actually a different boss, in a different raid, with completely different mechanics. Not the same guys with a spell or two difference, with a few more adds and much bigger numbers. There once was a feel of progression. Fight LK on different modes does not feel like progression.
I like content, not gear. The end of this expansion was about gear. 30% icc buff. Level 245 (10 man heroic gear, 3 raids into the expansion) gear purchased from items attained in instances that drop level 200 gear.
Сообщение от
2259
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Сообщение от
486583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Сообщение от
Thror
It just gives you the entire context of the conversation. Chill the bollocks out.
Looks like the amount of rainbows i put at the end was insufficient.
Quote pyramids are silly, and make you kinda look like an inexperienced poster. They can also be annoying.
Oh, and they are against the forum rules.
But despite that, i tend to tell people to refrain from creating post pyramids, because editing the text you are quoting is an useful thing to learn, or so i believe.
Сообщение от
533681
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Сообщение от
Pwntiff
Wait...raids not requiring co-ordination was a good thing? Whatever you're smoking, you can keep it.
The 10-man = 25-man loot system as been predicted to have this affect on WoW raiding (from all the debate here):
25-man guilds will still likely run 25-man content. They will still get more loot/drops per member of the raid, and there stand a better chance of gearing the group faster.
10-man guilds will no longer feel like second-class citizens. There are a fair number of us out there that only raid 25-man content because the gear is better, but we prefer the 10-man feel.
10-man PuGs will be more prevalent. This also means there will likely be more PuGs, since two 25-man PuGs is roughly equal to five 10-man PuGs.
Basically, most guilds will operate as they have, but Cataclysm may be the end of the 25-man PuG.
Сообщение от
Adamsm
Charging 5000gold for a major component of the game(fast flying mount)+1000 more for cold weather and not making it account binding.Um... what? The 5k gold was BC level, not Wrath....and it's not a major component; you don't
need
epic flying, you wanted it, so you saved up the gold and bought it. I agree on CWF though, and it should have had a discount added to it, especially for the BoA book.
The point I was making was that it wasn't part of the Wrath expansion. Price and level for mounts dropped yet the cost of a fast flier didn't. You may not think it's a major component and that's fine...but if you were playing this game before LFD...when you had to fly from flightmasters to dungeons and farm for mats a fast flier was/is a major component to get things done. At least they could have bound it to account so once you paid the 5000 all your toons needed only to acquire the mount and buy cold weather flying(which is bind to account).
Just so you know, I currently have 6 toons with Epic Flying, and 7 with CWF; I got my Warlock, my warrior and my hunter Epic flight before Wrath came out, so I paid the full 15k for it, no rep reduction for this old hand. Gold itself is simple to farm, so it's not that big of a deal. Also..... you realize, even at the start of the expansion, it was simple to level right? My Warrior hit 80 from the Tundra, the Fjord, and Dragonblight, with a few Dungeon crawls here and there; I had the teleport to Dalaran at 74, so CWF was bought as soon as I hit 77, made the last three levels a breeze to go through.
Again, and this is what your missing: Epic Flying is not required to play the Game... At All.
Сообщение от
Pwntiff
Heh, I played TBC with one 70 without Epic Flying because my Druid wasn't a gatherer. Epic Flying is in no way mandatory for the game if you aren't a gatherer, and even then it's just a nice little plus.
Сообщение от
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Сообщение от
xaratherus
The point I was making was that it wasn't part of the Wrath expansion. Price and level for mounts dropped yet the cost of a fast flier didn't. You may not think it's a major component and that's fine...but if you were playing this game before LFD...when you had to fly from flightmasters to dungeons and farm for mats a fast flier was/is a major component to get things done. At least they could have bound it to account so once you paid the 5000 all your toons needed only to acquire the mount and buy cold weather flying(which is bind to account).
I know a number of folks (one of them my roommate) who have played since BC and never bothered buying epic flight. It's by no means required.
Сообщение от
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Сообщение от
xaratherus
*grabs popcorn*
Сообщение от
Pwntiff
You think you're second-class based on...item level? Why is that important to you?
Achievements, mounts, crafting recipes, Orbs, Shadowmourne, etc. My entire group of 10 players that started raiding Wrath focusing on 10-mans realized that 10-mans were inferior because we sharding large amounts of loot while progressing through Ulduar because it was worse or
If 10s and 25s are being equalized in difficulty but 25 mans drop more loot per person, won't that mean there will be MORE 25 man pugs, since they will award more loot but be the same difficulty?
25-man PuGs are harder to organize and flesh out. Yes, you have a smaller margin of error in 10-mans, but they get off the ground faster, and there are fewer people to make a fatal mistake.
I several debates on this subject in the Cataclysm forum over the last couple months, and they all boiled down to my three points.
I think a few people throw the "straw man fallacy" around too much...
Сообщение от
xaratherus
I think a few people throw the "straw man fallacy" around too much...
I was using it incorrectly for awhile, actually. Confused it and ad hominem.
Сообщение от
93865
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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