Do you believe in God?

Сообщение от MyTie

And the Bible was written by mere mortals, with mortal perception and thoughts colouring everything that was put down; an we all know that mortals are flawed.

If God is perfect, and He directed certain people to write certain things, and inspired them with His spirit, can't it be deemed a reliable source? If not, the whole thing is false and we might as well jump dump it all. If the Bible is written at the direction of a deity, it either is, or it is not. There is no "if it was, it is flawed". That's counter to what is written in it. It can't counter itself and still be omnipotent. Is the Bible? Yes or No. There is no degree of correctness in something that claims perfection.

Сообщение от 588688

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от Gone

Сообщение от MyTie

If being the key word here. If he is x, if he did y.Yeah. I'm not disputing the various ways of believing in God. My point is that the Bible insists on the perfection of God, so it doesn't matter if it was written by mortals, at the direction of God. God simply doesn't make mistakes. Therefore, it is not a flawed book. However, if God isn't perfect, then the Bible is wrong, and it doesn't matter who wrote it. So, either way, God or no God, Adamsm's point is pointless.He is certainly not perfect my by standards, tho.
Really? I thought you were a devout Christian.

Сообщение от Adamsm

God may be perfect, but that still doesn't mean the writers of the Bible were; humans get things wrong after all, and if we didn't, there wouldn't be so many incomplete translations of the Good Book.

Сообщение от MyTie

God may be perfect, but that still doesn't mean the writers of the Bible were; humans get things wrong after all, and if we didn't, there wouldn't be so many incomplete translations of the Good Book.

Heh. The translators aren't given the power of the Holy Spirit, but the words of the origional writers were unquestionable, even unto death. To question them was to question the power of God. Those who tried to use your same argument against Moses were swallowed up by the ground (numbers 16). Romans 16:17 also asserts the authority of the writers of the New Testament. Are some translations flawed? Definitely. Are the original Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic words flawed? Not a chance. If you understand the Bible, then to argue that it is flawed from its onset, is to argue that it is, as a whole, wrong.

Сообщение от Magician22773

Сообщение от Skreeran

The real issue, though, isn't whether or not it really hurts me. The issue is that the United States government is supposed to protect religion, not endorse it.

The Constitution was never meant to prevent people from praying; its declared purpose was to protect their freedom to pray

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Only 2 points there.

1. No establishment of a State Religion.
2. No prohibition of free exercise of religion.

No where in there, is it written, or implied, that the Government cannot practice, include, or endorse a religion, or lack of one.The Separation of Church and State has been extrapolated and interpreted by the Supreme Court, which the Constitution grants the power to interpret law.

For instance, in Engel v. Vitale, the Supreme Court ruled that official school prayers were unconstitutional. In Lee v. Weisman, the Supreme Court ruled that leading an assembly in prayer at a school graduation was unconstitutional.

Сообщение от Squishalot

Сообщение от Gone

is kind of disgusting. "No Gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven, no Hell". Nobody who takes comfort in their faith during the holidays wants to see that &*!@. And putting it next to a nativity scene is just obvious trolling.

I'm going to turn this around for you. Does it really hurt you? If so, what about it makes it hurtful?

That's different. The prayer day thing is pro religion, not anti atheism. Where as putting a message that says "there is no god, no heaven, no angels" next to a nativity scene is obviously an attack on religion.

You didn't answer the question though. Does it really hurt you? What about it makes it hurtful?

It offends me, and I'm sure there are other people who could be hurt by it.

Somebody loses a loved one for example, and are having a hard time around the holidays so they decide to take a walk by the nativity scene and reflect on their faith, maybe take a few pictures, and they have to look at bull^&*! like that? "There is no god, no heaven."

Yes putting it up around Christmas, at a nativity scene is hurtful. Is the nativity scene where a lot of atheists hang out, or is it where a lot of Christians hang out? The target audience for that plaque is obviously religious people, not atheists, which makes it offensive.

The reason I said "does it really hurt you" about prayer day, is because I'm sure it does a lot of good for other people, and if nobody is hurt by it, then it should be alright. What good does that plaque do? What comfort does it bring anybody?

Сообщение от Skreeran

Again though, it's not just "a prayer day."

It's a prayer day officially sponsored by the US government. If it were just "a prayer day" and the government backed out of it so that you could do your own thing and I could do mine, I'd be fine with it. Print it on calenders, give it a wikipedia page, go wild. It's the fact that it's sponsored by the government that bothers me.

I mean really. If the government had a national "God Doesn't Exist Day," where the government appealed to everyone to read The God Delusion and take a day to ponder the fact that there is no god, you'd probably take offense to it too.

I have nothing against the National Day of Prayer, only that the government officially endorses it.

Сообщение от Gone

I guess that's the problem atheism and religion have with each other. A lot of religious people feel threatened with growing secular numbers in the US and Europe. And those fears may be justified considering so many atheists also want to remove God from everyday life (the pledge of allegiance, the dollar, prayer day, etc.). At the same time I know that atheists see things like this and feel isolated, like a minority.

It's a tough situation, while I feel for you and people with similar situations, at the same time I like having the government endorse prayer day, and I know a lot of other people of faith do as well.

The plaque thing is different though. Like I said targeting it at religion and putting it outside of a nativity scene feels more like an attack against religious people than a message of solidarity to other atheists.

Сообщение от Skreeran

I'm just saying.

Let me leave this here.

Сообщение от Magician22773

I'll just leave this here too.

Сообщение от Skreeran

I'll just leave this here too. I'd rather not watch a 5 minute tribute to Ronald Reagan. Can you please elaborate what you are trying to say?

Сообщение от Magician22773

I'll just leave this here too. I'd rather not watch a 5 minute tribute to Ronald Reagan. Can you please elaborate what you are trying to say?

That's interesting. I read the title of your article, and had pretty much the same feeling.

Perhaps, just as your article was not for me, my video is not for you.

However. I can say, with all honestly, that as I posted that video, I prayed that the words, the message, and the meaning that it contains might reach someone, and that they might feel what I feel when I listen to what is in that video. And that 'someone' includes you, Skree.

But I also realize that I cannot make you watch it, anymore than I can make you believe in its message...I can only pray, and I have.

Сообщение от Skreeran

Сообщение от Nathanyal

I'll just leave this here too. I'd rather not watch a 5 minute tribute to Ronald Reagan. Can you please elaborate what you are trying to say?

I spent 4 mins reading, actually only read half and skimmed the rest, the article you linked. Why can't you take 5 mins to watch that video?

And about that article. What was stopping them from praying to their God? They didn't have to pray to a pagan god like he mentioned. If there are multiple gods, I'm sure they hear everyone's prayer no matter what religion they are. It's not like they have a caller id on prayers or something.

When we get asked to pray at a game or something I just stand there with my head bowed and eyes closed. I don't really see myself as following one path of religion. I like to keep an open mind. I was baptized Catholic as a baby. Went to Baptist church because my friends did. And I like the other religions, such as the ancient ones of Greece and Rome.

Сообщение от Skreeran

I spent 4 mins reading, actually only read half and skimmed the rest, the article you linked. Why can't you take 5 mins to watch that video?I really don't want to watch any sort of tribute to Reagan. I'm still pretty mad at him for the People's Park.

And about that article. What was stopping them from praying to their God? They didn't have to pray to a pagan god like he mentioned. If there are multiple gods, I'm sure they hear everyone's prayer no matter what religion they are. It's not like they have a caller id on prayers or something.

When we get asked to pray at a game or something I just stand there with my head bowed and eyes closed. I don't really see myself as following one path of religion. I like to keep an open mind. I was baptized Catholic as a baby. Went to Baptist church because my friends did. And I like the other religions, such as the ancient ones of Greece and Rome.Nothing was stopping them, but being involuntarily immersed in a Buddhist prayer ceremony made them uncomfortable and they were forced to choose between compromising their own beliefs by going along with it or being conspicuously nonparticipant and being ostracized by their community.

Сообщение от Nathanyal

Nothing was stopping them, but being involuntarily immersed in a Buddhist prayer ceremony made them uncomfortable and they were forced to choose between compromising their own beliefs by going along with it or being conspicuously nonparticipant and being ostracized by their community.

But if they're praying, how can anyone tell who they are praying to? The person over the speakers may have been a Buddhist, but they could have prayed to God for the exact same things.

The same can happen for those that move to the south, since that is where the writer is from. Would a Buddhist come to a football game here and refuse to do a prayer because it was to God?

Do you believe in God?

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