Divine Plea Rotation: Surviving the Healing Handicap

Сообщение от Rouen

Here are a couple suggestions I'd like to throw out there for this topic.

**Facts
**Avenging Wrath, most end game "Use" SP trinkets, Divine Illumination and all Non-Bubble Hand spells (Hand of Salvation, Hand of Sacrifice) are on a two minute cool down.

**Divine Plea restores 25% of your mana over 15 seconds (5% every 3 seconds), but reduces our healing output by 50%, meaning as YJMark said, popping Avenging Wrath under Divine plea only increase your output by 10% as opposed to 20%.

I'm pointing out the obvious by saying 15 seconds is a really, really long time to have your healing severely gimped to gain mana back. Unfortunately, with the nerfs to our Illumination mana regen, Divine Plea is going to be more important then ever before.

There are ways to limit Divine Plea's temporary nerf to our healing. The most popular one is to use Avenging Wrath and/or popping a SP trinket to help get through it. Sometimes or always, depending on you, you pop Divine Ilumination too so you can just Holy Light spam during this period. If you do pop Divine Illumination, assuming you have the Glyph of Seal of Wisdom and the Libram of Renewal, the cost of Holy Light is cut to 522 which is greater then the cost of a normal Flash of Light, but cheaper then Holy Shock by roughly the same ratio.

Divine Illumination, Avenging Wrath, and most end game SP use trinkets are on a two minute cooldown, while Divine Plea is on a one minute cooldown. Assuming you blow all your goods during the first Divine Plea, your out of luck for the second Divine Plea if you choose to use it each time it's available.

A one-use (or two) solution would be to pop Divine Plea first, then Hand of Sacrifice on the tank and then Divine Shield on yourself (or hand of protection if he's only taking physical damage, I'll post questions about HoS at the end). So while your dealing out 50% less heals, the tank is taking 30% less damage, effectively changing your healing done from 50% to 80%. I chose this particular cast order to account for the fact that Divine Plea lasts for 15 seconds and the GCD for using Hand of Sacrifice and the GCD for Divine Shield because they both only last for 12 seconds. Excluding haste, the GCD for a paladin is 1.5 seconds. 12+1.5+1.5 = 15. Divine Plea and AW have no GCD.

At this point, you now have Forbearance debuff on you that lasts two minutes. Divine plea will be ready in one minute.

For the third Divine Plea, your Avenging Wrath, Divine Illumination, and your SP trinket will be off cooldown. You can now pop all the above again for the third divine plea. At this point, Forbearance now has one minute remaining, Divine Shield will have 4 minutes remaining.

(EDIT 7/6/09: The below paragraph used to use Hand of Protection, which has now been changed to Divine Protection as a result of further testing.)

Here comes the fourth Divine Plea. Forbearance just wore off, Divine Shield has 3 minutes left, and AW/DI/SP_Trinket has one minute left on CD, but your Hand of Sacrifice is ready. This next Divine Plea is very situational depending on the type of damage your tank is taking, because now you can only use Divine Protection on yourself while you have Hand of Sacrifice on your tank. Asking for some HoTs on yourself and have another healer keep an eye on the tank during this time is highly recommended.

I can continue to go on about this rotation, but I think this makes my point pretty well, anyone who wants to examine your options during further rotations can easily work it out themselves. I believe this to be an effective use of a holy pally's abilities to compensate for for the 50% healing gimp during Divine Plea. It does however get tricker as the fight goes on. Let the discussion begin!

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Сообщение от 161859

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Сообщение от 228908

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Сообщение от Rouen

Just my own opinion. I appreciate what you are trying to do, but I don't see it as helping people out unless they want to mindlessly heal.

During the current patch, this is mostly true. I won't dispute that. This rotation will gain a lot more value and usefullness during 3.2, which is my intention, when they nerf the crap out of Illumination's mana returns from 60% on crit to 30%. This rotation can be very situational, say if a healer who was helping you watch the tank dies. Mana is a big problem for lots of guilds that isn't top-end like Ensidia, mine in particular. Remember that this rotation can be very dynamic, but for the purposes of arguement assumes that you will use Divine Plea each time it is on cool down. As long as you don't do this during an extremely high damage phase, I don't see any outstanding flaws in this rotation. However: That's why I post these ideas here, to be scrutinized.

My pally is almost entirely 25 man naxx geared, with some KT 10 man drops and 10 man Ulduar pieces on. Blizzard is forcing us to worry about our mana, so instead of QQing about holy pallys mana regen (Which I have done my fair share of believe me, no offense at all to anyone here, I just didn't QQ publicly on the forums), I'm putting it out there that by using all the abilities available to us, we will still be mana batteries in the world of 3.2. Holy Paladins will now require more skill.

Сообщение от 387114

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Сообщение от Rouen

...

... are all very true. There are many bosses that have these break periods. The good news is that this rotation has exceptions, but does require skill to pull off. Macros are your friend.

Again, you may not have to pop Divine Plea each time it is off cooldown, maybe your lucky enough that a full two minutes pass and you can just pop DI/AW/SP_Trinket again for that second Divine Plea. But it does show that the potential to make it work is there. By absorbing this information, you now have new options available to you and you will be a better healer for it.

For the record, this whole idea struck me all of a sudden after reading some one else's post asking about a divine plea rotation.

Edit: A good comparsion would be matching this concept against the fate of Apollo 13. It's not always a matter of what something is designed to do or what the norm is, but what it can do and to use every item and ability available to you to succeed. As Caean has mentioned, yes you have pots, yes you can blow LoH with the Divinity glyph on yourself, but these are things you can only do once a fight, that is their weakness. It's like overhealing, yeah I'm on the top of the list but is the tank alive? Yes? Then who gives a damn? I did my job.

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Сообщение от Fretold

i dont know if any1 has said this yet but BoP (Hand of Protection) will cause your tank to lose agro.

Сообщение от Vellas

i dont know if any1 has said this yet but BoP (Hand of Protection) will cause your tank to lose agro.

Yeah HoPing the tank is a good way to wipe a raid. Not only does it reset their aggro, but they cant attack while its up either.

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Сообщение от svirve

Yeah HoPing the tank is a good way to wipe a raid. Not only does it reset their aggro, but they cant attack while its up either.

HoP has nothing to do with aggro. Let me give you a hint though, if you have to hit one of the following which one would you choose: a steel coated watermelon or a piece of jell-o.

i dont know if any1 has said this yet but BoP (Hand of Protection) will cause your tank to lose agro.
And......... your point is? No one ever mentioned using HoP on the tank.
(or hand of protection if he's only taking physical damage, I'll post questions about HoS at the end)
Suggests popping HoP on yourself not the tank.. Duuuuh.

I agree with YJMark, learn the encounter, you're gonna need to know it anyways if you hope to down the boss.
I cant think of a boss encounter (real or imaginary) that would need you to use DP on CD because of the high damage and as well be so low on damage that you can use DP on CD without your tank dying. It's like putting too much salt on your fries without putting any salt on them.

Сообщение от Synectics

1. Heigan - During the Safety Dance (phase 2) you have 45 seconds where the only people who take damage are people who can't dance.
Let me give you a hint though, if you have to hit one of the following which one would you choose: a steel coated watermelon or a piece of jell-o.

I LOL'd quite a bit.

But more srsly, learning the fight is always going to be the smartest thing for you to do. I'm not a pro Holydin, but I know as a Disco Priest it's very important to know when I can really stack up crits and Divine Aegis's, and when I can reel it back a little and let Spirit and the 5 second rule do its thing to my mana regen.

I imagine Holydins are much the same in this respect. Waiting to use Divine Plea until a "softer" part of a fight can be much more beneficial than popping it too early or too late.

But with that said, all the listed ways to sort of negate the Divine Plea cost to healing are very useful, and come next patch, seem like they will be mandatory. This is all definitely something I will be bringing up to my fellow tank healer, as there is nothing more scary than hearing "I'm OOM, pick up my target" on Vent.

Сообщение от 161859

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Сообщение от Rouen

I'll put this issue to rest now, I don't want this thread polluted by folks who didn't read the OP.

i dont know if any1 has said this yet but BoP (Hand of Protection) will cause your tank to lose agro.

HoP on a tank is good fun.

Yeah HoPing the tank is a good way to wipe a raid. Not only does it reset their aggro, but they cant attack while its up either.
No where did I say pop HoP on the tank... you pop it on yourself for damage mitigation, but HoP isn't full proof since it only prevents physical damage while the tank might be taking other types also. If you ACTUALLY read the OP you would see that it says...

This next Divine Plea is very situational depending on the type of damage your tank is taking, because now you can only use Hand of Protection on yourself while you have Hand of Sacrifice on your tank.

This issue is now dead. Moving on....

Using Divine Plea on CD can get a tank killed, unless an FoL size heal is all the tank needs.

I personally have never lost a tank while using Divine Plea and I've only canceled Divine Plea in the middle of a boss fight one time, and it was because I wasn't paying attention and popped it shortly before XT-002's Tantrum. For the record, I'v healed a tank through Kel'thazad, Sartharion, Malygo, Razorscale, Hodir's Frozen Blows etc, while under the effects of Divine Plea. Why? Because I know how to mitigate the 50% loss. I post up my tactics for the benefit of everyone, but with some folks who can't even read apparently (See some of the quotes above), I'll think twice before doing it again. It's pretty frustrating.

Did I ever say this was the end-all-be-all answer to being able to use Divine Plea at ANY time? No, I did not. It's a moot point, let it go. I see a whole lot of folks not reading the OP for what it is: Mitigating the 50% loss to your healing and keeping your tank up at the same time using other methods then just the norm: Popping wings, Divine Illumination (To allow for HL spam), and a SP trinket. This allows you a "rotation" to use to keep your tank up without the help of another healer during the 15 seconds Divine Plea is up. Should you always have two healers on a tank during a 25 man? Of course. Is it fair to dump all the load on healing the tank to the other healer every 45 seconds for 15 seconds because your afraid of not getting all you can get from your Divine Plea? No. If I can do it, other holy pallies can do it too.

To put it bluntly, if you can't do it, it's either a gear check, a skill check, or a common sense check.

Сообщение от 161859

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Сообщение от Rouen

HoP on a tank is good fun.

Your, srvive and Synectics are some of the more intelligent people on the forums so I know you know better (And I know when you jest). This is geared more towards people who aren't helping by dragging out the OMG NEVR BUBBLEZ DA TANK YOU N00B despite that I never stated to bubble the tank, my direction was very clear.

I'll rephrase then.

If you don't have anything intelligent to add to this thread, then don't post. Save it for the trolls.

I want to hear some holy pallies come back after trying these tactics out in ulduar/mally/naxx. Or, even better, use this "rotation" out in the PTR where you'll need to Divine Plea much more often.

Сообщение от 387114

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Сообщение от Rouen

I do have a question about HoS use along with HoP. HoP only stops physical attacks. So if you were to use it on yourself and then HoS the tank, would HoP stop the damage you take from HoS?

Thanks for bringing this up, I forgot to ask this question earlier and I meant to. One of two things happens, but I'm not entirely sure. I'll test this out when I get home in a couple hours. I believe HoS returns the same type of damage to you the tank/player who recieved it. Meaning if my tank gets hit with 1000 arcane damage, I should recieve 300 of it as arcane.

Alternately, it returns the damage of any type, but only sends it to you in only one form, say the tank gets hit with 1000 arcane, it would hit me with 300 physical instead.

Edit: In the above case, HoP would absorb it. I'm assuming if it returns the damage as the same type, a boss's melee doing physical damage and HoS returns physical then HoP protect you from that.

Or maybe both are wrong and returns 300 as holy instead (which would make sense given the concept of HoS and prevent the recoil from being mitigated short of an immune/absorption effect like Divine Shield or Power Word: Shield) and make HoP pointless.

If someone can beat me to the test, post up the results.

Divine Plea Rotation: Surviving the Healing Handicap

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