Cataclysm Speculation: Why Garrosh Will Be Loved and Why Greymane Will Be Hated

Сообщение от 389776

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Сообщение от Skreeran

What if Cairne was killed by the Alliance?

Why does Cairne have to die in your scenario? Why cant that blood elf guy who does nothing in Silvermoon die in Cairne's place. Garrosh could still achieve his goal of war with the alliance regardless of what leader bites the dust.I don't want Cairne to die, but it seems pretty obvious to me since all Cairne's quests are being redirected to other NPCs.

well what if hes just moving from thunderbluff to do something different?Well, that's possible, but then what reason would the Horde have for war?

Сообщение от 389776

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Сообщение от TheMediator

As for Varian... I hope they get him past the uber-rage kill everything stance he has now, I'm getting tired of it.

I don't understand why people constantly say this. The Horde has been at war with the Alliance. Its nothing new. Varian is simply getting it out in the open and saying "Yes, you've attacked us constantly, we are at war." He has tried to make peace and the Horde basically spit in his face. The way he sees it, the Horde is too dangerous and unstable in its current so the Alliance needs defeat the Horde and put it under watch, much like how the Horde is putting the Forsaken under watch because of the events of the Wrathgate.

Varian wants peace. He means to achieve that peace by subduing the Horde. I think that the events in ICC and Cataclysm will force him further down that path due to the Gunship Battle and the supposed conquest of Alliance territories by Garrosh.

Сообщение от 229054

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Сообщение от Skreeran

I don't see how anyone but the Forsaken are making "constant attacks on the Alliance."

The conflict in Ashenvale could be considered, but Thrall seemed quite ready to discontinue lumbering operations there if an alternative source could be provided.

Сообщение от taurenmoo812

I'm sorry Skreeran, but I'm not backing down on this one.

I hate Garrosh with a passion for so many reasons, and all this speculation being thrown up in the air about ppl might actully like him, is just that, speculation.

consider these facts:

1 - He has undermined Thralls leadership to the end and now taking control over Thrall, he begins to crush all that Thrall made for his people in a negative way

2 - He pushes the warsong to control all of ashenvale forest, essencally making it so theres little hope for a resolve there now.

3 - The same speculations of Garrosh 'changing' also is up there with him killing Cairne, and so making it just as much reason to be true about that.

4 - In being a racist prick that forces all races he considers 'weak' out of the centre of orgrimmar

5 - In making the horde into a warsong like band on conquerers.

Its like this. The war between both sides ended decades ago. Both horde and alliance had found a peace within there lands and a place they both could call home. For the horde, Thrall made this happen for them, and since then the thing thats sparked off any conflicts is based on both sides wanting to take resources.

However, with Garrosh its no longer about the horde being settled as a union of people, in protecting there lands and boarders like Thrall did. With Garrosh it will be about doing what the old horde did, going out and trying to take land from the alliance and resources, even when the horde has enough already.

In other words, he is setting up the horde for the same misrable defeat the first horde suffered at doomhammers defeat.

I refuse to like him, or try to understand him, because he is going to take away so much that I love about the horde. Also, if anyone dares try to say they think Garrosh could be the next Thrall, but with a more hardened take on battle.. I would personally kick someone in the gonads for saying that.

Сообщение от HiVolt

It's going to take more than just a single heroic act for me to think Garrosh is a good character. I could care less either way, if he's hated or loved, so long as the story is moving along. But right now, he's one-dimensional, and to me that is unacceptable. I can at least say that Varian and Genn have a bit more to their personality than Garrosh does. They want to protect their peoples, crush what they perceive to be threats to them and the Alliance, etc.; I can get that. But Garrosh on the other hand, seems to want nothing more than just to have war for war's sake.

He views the Horde as weak, even though it is stronger than it ever has been. He regards what Thrall has done for his people apparently as being of little consequence. And he hasn't ever been shown that he has higher motives for what he wants to accomplish other than his own glory.

I've said it many times before, if I can get a bit more character out of Garrosh, I'll take him as a leader and live with it, even if I don't like the leader he turns out to be. His act of taking vengeance for Cairne will have no bearing on this idea. It won't because Garrosh has had no extended contact with Cairne. Garrosh doesn't regard him as a mentor or friend, so it won't be him taking vengeance for something lost; rather, it will just be another reason for him to get the Horde to crack Alliance skulls.

Сообщение от 451455

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Сообщение от Adamsm

I still want proof that Genn will take the time to travel half way accross Azeroth to kill one of the most peaceful leaders in the game who has done nothing to effect him in anyway, when he is to busy trying to save his own kingdom.

It's a scenario, not something that has actually happened Darkton, a "What If" reason for why the war explodes again.

Сообщение от Skreeran

Well, I never stated that Genn will or did. Just that it's not going to be Garrosh or Varian if it happens. Genn--in my scenario being the leader of the Alliance's "dark faction"--could be an alternative.

Besides, there's lots of ways it could be done. Let's say Cairne is going to the Eastern Kingdoms for some reason (and there's lots of potential reasons), Gilneas could very well waylay him.

Again, I'm just speculating, not necessarily saying that something will happen.

Сообщение от 184848

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Сообщение от hymer

It must be allowed, Ivokk, that we enjoy the story both as (pulp) literature as well as an immersive story. We have to be allowed this, if only for gameplay reasons. Sometimes a meta argument has great merit and needs to be brought up.
But I agree that we must be aware of the meta arguments, separate them from the lore arguments, and know why the former only apply on occasion.

Сообщение от Skreeran

Of course. As many people know, I often get very, very immersed in the story.

Meta-lore, however, has it's place, and can frequently be useful when predicting future turns of events. If I were only to go on an in-story basis, for example, Kirisani's comments would be of no use to me.

In addition, the whole "put the War back in Warcraft" movement that seems to be driving these turns of events is meta-lore.

They shouldn't be mixed, but I think meta-lore has it's place.

Сообщение от 184848

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Сообщение от Skreeran

Yes, but sometimes one begets the other. Garrosh for example.

Garrosh was doing nothing in Nagrand, 'cept whining and griping (until Thrall showed him Grom). Then he's an entirely different person in Wrath, trying to start the war back up. The primary reason for this is not any sort of evident character reason, instead, Blizzard molded the character to fit their meta goals.

Besides, I'm not talking about immersion in here. This is a strictly Meta discussion where I try to predict what Blizzard will do and why.

If you're role-playing, you consider Blizzard to be non-existent. Correct?Correct, but I'm not roleplaying in here.

Сообщение от 184848

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Сообщение от Skreeran

Heh, if you've ever seen me debate, you can see how immersed I get... :P

Сообщение от 451455

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Сообщение от Skreeran

Please take part in the Bolvar Fordragon thread, I reallly need someone to answer my questions.Which one?

Cataclysm Speculation: Why Garrosh Will Be Loved and Why Greymane Will Be Hated

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