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Comment by Mastrcapn

Rogues: The bane of life on a PVP server.

You will never be prepared. Invest in an ambush shield ASAP.

Comment by Supahtoons

Trespassers will be Ambushed. Survivors will be Blinded, then Ambushed again.

Comment by Wildhorn

World of Roguecraft (Pre-TBC video)

Comment by Hyperlynx

Known to do it from behind.

Comment by 573802

Now you see me....Now you don't

Comment by dreadblood

Sure, holy paladins, resto druids, and any variety of shaman can essentially whoop our asses

I really hope you're being sarcastic..

Comment by spermbolle

I love the screenshot of the bloodfang rogue standing next to a dead rabbit xD

Comment by Archangel76

Rogues can also perform feats that one would not think they are capable of..........

Rogue tanks Illidan

Rogue Solos Patchwerk

Rogues are capable of Pure Awesome

Edit: Wow. Why downrate? Both were accomplishments and go to show that player skill is still the ultimate trump card. That's something I think those who truly appreciate this class can understand.

Comment by woa12

Shankity Shank Shank

Comment by demise189

Useful Information:
Rogues are no longer required to do an annoyingly long chain quest to use poisons, and they no longer need to learn how to make poisons from the trainer. You can simply buy poison from poison vendors.

Comment by mking52

what weapons do the best damage for a rogue? Daggers?

Comment by dreadblood

depends on spec, I don't play a rogue but I always remember: slow MH fast OH

Comment by Hyperlynx

Rogue is best PvP but good Pvp is too druid ferral... ferral are ^&*!s :D ... my methode. first stealt, second blind, third ambush and continues with multirate and eviscerate :D ... with multirate make 5 or 4 cp and use eviscerate and again :D

Why would you Blind as an opener? It breaks stealth so you couldn't use Ambush or Cheap Shot. Save Blind for when you're about to get kited and need time to get back in melee range, granted, as Assassination it's usually going to get broken by Deadly Poison ticks, but the 1 or 2 seconds it'll buy you is often the difference between killing and getting killed.

Also, if you're doing Mutilate it is best to use Envenom for both PvE and PvP. The idea of Assassination is that it focuses on nature damage (unmitigated by armor), not physical damage (which is mitigated by armor), and poisons and Envenom do nature damage. If you were using Eviscerate you would have a higher percentage of your damage as physical damage, so more of your damaging abilities are mitigated by armor. Plate armor is common in PvP, and that plate armor will make Envenom shine.

Comment by Arkham

This class is often confused with a particular kind of makeup.
Watch your spelling -- remember, with rogues it's the G before the U!

Comment by Hurono

When using Stealth rogues will be unseen except by the most preceptive enemies.

...Or the Hunter's pet.

Comment by 587658

Alone wolf class.Makes great at everyman for himself.

Comment by 620135

I use a very useful combo in PvP. You need to be a sub rogue, plus have the talent and glyph that increases your max energy to 130 ( should be 120 but it seems there is a bug but works just fine ).

So first you use Preparation on your target. Then you use CS( you all know what CS is ) and then Backstab/Shiv. If he uses his/her trinket/racial, pop KS right after. If not, just pop it when CS finishes. Now, you shouldn't have combo points, so spam Hemorrage on the target till you get 5. Then eviscerate. If target doesnt die, either he has stacked STA, which then requires other strategy, or your gear sucks. In that case, just Vanish and repeat or do Ambush and then go on like you want.

Best against: Clothies, Hunters, other nooby rogues
Poisons: Any you want on main-hand, crippling on off-hand ( in case you pop Shiv instead of Backstab, which i strongly advice for using less energy and having about almost same dmg )

EDIT: recently discouvered it works fine wit hall casters actually so this combo only doesnt work with plate-wearers because of their massive HP, tho that might change on cata since blizz is giving more hp to all except plate-wearers and they are improving abilities

Comment by 621739

Rogues are awesome, especially when you get people QQing about when you stealth in the Gurubashi Arena and let everyone kill themselves....

Comment by 622860

I am sick of people thinking rouges are unbeatable here is an easy way to beat a rouges in a level 10-19 BG warsong gulch with a prot pally. Pop Hand of Freedom then you Pop hammer of justice then Judgement of light(note when ever this cooldowns use again) then you use Divine Protection. That rouge has taken a good bit of damage by now and if done right you have took very little if any. Then use hand of freedom, Judgement of light, holy light, and Lay on hand if you have the chance. Use this correctly and that rouge is gonna lose. Enjoy =)

(note: only works if you have these spells so lower levels will have a hard time also you and said rouge need to be same level and some rouge that have alot of BoA gear and know how to work a rouge well you may have a hard time and BTW I AM NOT SAYING ROUGES ARE BAD THEY ARE A VERY GOOD CLASS JUST NOT INVECIABLE)

Comment by 622860

Well pallies are a noob class, they are OP at any lvl.

Noob class hmmmmm and overpowered. This is a statement that has no point every Class has a point where it appears to be unstopable. Pallies are a well rounded class not a "noob class" Refering to something as "noob" is childish at best. All classes are equal if used correctly. Well DK's are not included they are a "Hero class". Feel free to downrate my comments because a speak my opinion i will not do that to you. =)

Comment by 622860

I understand your comment but i did not mean they should not be equal. I meant they are not classified the same. I think DK's are overpowered and starting at level 55 is also a unfair advantage. I personaly have not a single DK my main character is a hunter level 74. And them starting out in blues is unfair. I actually uprated yours btw.

Comment by Hyperlynx

Every class has that point where they seem "OP"

Death Knight: These guys seem OP when they switch from beating on you in melee to kiting you with Chains and disease damage when you pressure them
Druid: They seem OP when they have the skill required to use all of the tools available to them, that's just being well played, not overpowered
Paladin: Well rounded, few direct weaknesses but but no huge strengths... they seem OP when they bubble and heal to full.
Hunter: Nasty, well rounded class that can destroy anybody from range. Hugely prone to snares, disarms, and are useless when you manage to close to melee range
Warrior: Protection warriors can and do stunlock better than rogues, arms have one of the nastiest AoE attacks in the game as well. Warriors hit hard, and are very effective at staying in melee range, they are also very prone to disarms and can be shut down by a wall played caster
Shaman: They seem overpowered when you're sailing off of a cliff. Nuff said
Rogue: Rogues seem pretty overpowered when they're turning the middle third of your screen bright red and making it difficult for you to do anything about it. But rogues without cooldowns are like low-HP warriors with paltry armor and no Charge. For rogues, unlike other classes (like a Warrior), survivability in PvP and damage in PvP are often a trade off - you can't have both.
Mage: Quite possibly the class that allows the most control of their environment. Snares, silences, and a plethora of valuable abilities (spellsteal, polymorph, etc.) let them dominate the battlefield... and they can also put out disgusting amounts of damage. Mages seem overpowered when you just can't catch the bastard.
Warlock: Very tough to kill as Affliction, extremely dangerous burst as Destro, and really nice CC abilities. A warlock seems overpowered when you die AFTER he does, or when he steals your HP and Mana. A well played and well geared warlock can be ridiculously hard to kill.
Priest: Able to make an opponent's life miserable. Decent DoT abilities, and a toolbox full of nasty tricks to round them out.... not to mention the most flexible healing and team support abilities in the game. However they are squishy, and cannot rely on CC to survive, priests are considerably less effective without a friend around.

E: This was responding to a since-deleted QQ post about rogues being OP.

Comment by 410391

I think iv come to my own conclusion that every class can pwn every class it just depends who is behind the keys. Me I get beat up ALOT, but I still have fun doing it! I created my rogue after I used to like to amush people with my hunter using shadowmeld and a kitty i thought looking at that rogue running around there stabing everyones pooper,"i gotta try that".

Comment by mixter

Paladin: Well rounded, few direct weaknesses but but no huge strengths... they seem OP when they bubble and heal to full.

And the damage...and the hearthstone

Comment by 626791

Does anyone know any good Professions for this class

Comment by kyrierain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWgW3ogaV84

the real reason anyone play rogues..

"captcha: lame"

Comment by 183031

Okay. I haven't seriously played Rogue since pre-Wrath.
I need to know, what's a good PvE & Raid rotation like?

Comment by 645133

Stealth in cataclysm?
ive been skulking around at the contents and talent points in cata and couldnt find anything that shows rogues getting improved stealth, other than increased stealth movement speed. is this completely removed? or just not yet shown/developed?

another question.
the talent quickening in assassionation that increases your general run speed by up to 15%. does that also increase your speed further in stealth if you have increased stealth movement already? since its more like a decreased slow effect rather than an increased speed effect imo :P.. just curious

Comment by 657814

rogues may not be the best class when it comes to soloing but they are the most fun!

Comment by 658272

rogue=best pvp class

Comment by 650974

The Lvl70 ETC song says it all...

Comment by 667752

agreed!

Comment by 667752

assassination-Nature damage is painfull. so they ignore most of the armor then plus you should stack those deadlies for the envenom.
Combat-very scary due to the blade twisting attacks are painful tooo
subtlety-pure combo point unloading and gathering plus you can get away if u cant kill them

Comment by 657631

The way i open a fight on a lvl 21 rogue: begin with pickpocket if i can get close enough (for double loot), then go into ambush if i can get behind them (sounds so wrong :P) then wait for energy, then gouge for a 4 second stun, then to backstab = highly effective.

Comment by Suparockr

as if they weren't OP enough, they give them soloing heals and one-shots before level 20

Comment by 671747

1st off rogues now get poisons at level 10 i believe.

And at the moment if you want to know OP make a level 15 rogue atleast and spec him assassination. Find anyone, clothie to mail wearer(no one wears plate yet) and sap.... pool til 120 energy(when you spec assassination you get 20 extra energy), on your stealth bar make sure that your ambush and mutilate are in corresponding slot. Double click hitting about 200-400 each depending on level with BoA's on and critting like i always do. Instant poison both daggers as thats only one unlocked. If anyone survives that it will be a 19 twink or a engie with a shield/Priest shield.

And don't downrank, not my fault it doesn't look like a rotation, its jsut the rotation is so short due to crits and high out put froom Ambush/Mut combo.

Comment by 690778

What is ? Smoke bomb

Comment by 691688

I like how in the Combat tree they made it very viable to swashbuckle (fight without having to rely on stealth all the time). I like this because it makes your fighting style resemble a pirate, you know like improvising with things such as gouge or blind, where you fight dirty but not having to sneak up on them.

I even went about and posted a bunch of information on a website called oneextralife.com and pointed out everything you need to know about how to make one.

here's the link

I've already started doing this on a level 38 rogue. And if I had slightly better threat generation i could pretty much tank dungeons my level.

Plus in BGs you could really throw a warrior or other class off their game when you just run up and start fighting them not sneak in and use a stealth opener like ambush, sap, or cheapshot

Comment by 692478

I have a rogue i just got to lvl 70 on, leveled with subtlety and dual spec combat.

subtlety - the master solo/pvp spec, and the most fun i've had leveling a character so far. (for reference, i am also leveling a prot pally and an arcane mage)

subtlety is designed to kill one target as quickly as possible. you move faster in stealth and do more damage in this spec coming out of stealth. here's the trick for killing that one target, whether it be a boss in a cave, random creep, or PVP:

1. stealth (duh). find a target by itself or sap its neighbor

2. use a macro to instantly use premeditation and shadowstep* - you will boost your damage and instantly appear behind them with 2 combo points ready to go.

3. ambush (60% base crit chance means it almost always crits) gives you 5 total CP at the start of combat

4a. eviscerate - a 5 CP eviscerate will do just as much if not more damage than ambush. almost any one target will be dead or near death after this (squishies especially). you can pull this off on any PVP target that isn't paying attention. I've had a kill ratio of 7:1 doing this in the arathi basin.

4b. if your target is a healer class (paladins in particular) use kidney shot instead of eviscerate. if you're spec'd right a 5CP KS will cost 0 net energy. spam backstab until dead.

*note - when sneaking up on a mage sometimes they'll blink away before you can finish them off. against mages just use premeditation if you can and sneak behind them. when they blink you can catch up to them with shadowstep (although i can almost guarantee the mage in question will be VERY annoyed and !@#$% about how rogues are op.)

once you get shadow dance you can easily rank #1 DPS on any dungeon boss fight:

1. stealth
2. premed/shadowstep macro
3. ambush
4. eviscerate
5. wait until you have full energy
6. shadow dance
7. ambush - ambush - eviscerate - ambush - ambush - eviscerate (you can pull off another ambush if you drink some thistle tea or something)
8. see your name at #1 on recount.

I haven't tried combat in PVP yet (why would I when subtlety owns all in pvp?). In dungeons combat is your friend because it's the closest thing to AOE you will get. feel free to use larger weapons such as maces here.
to get max dps do the following when attacking a mob in a dungeon:

1. stealth
2. ambush
3. slice n dice
4. blade flurry*

combat is all about melee.

adrenaline rush works really well in conjunction with blade flurry as well. although your energy regeneration rate wont be as high with blade flurry on, the attack speed stacks with slice n dice so it still provides for plenty of hits.

*killing spree works with your blade flurry ability, essentially doubling its effectiveness.

*note* i am only lvl 70 right now so don't use this advice for raiding at lvl 80

any rogues out there willing to tell me how assassination compares to these two? i seriously considered it over combat but it looked too much like it focused on a single target like subtlety.

Comment by 618815

Gnome stealth has the most hilarious "stealth walking" animation among all the rogue classes.

Comment by 700524

Gnome stealth has the most hilarious "stealth walking" animation among all the rogue classes.

Have you not seen goblins?

Comment by TheDancingTree

sneakidy sneakidy sneakidy sneak...STAB! >:D

Comment by 652599

Silent but deadly. Like farts.

Comment by 719397

Just a quick note of an efective emergency combo for if your stealth abilities are on CD

1) Gouge gives you a quick stun and a point

2) move round and back stab another point and decent damage

3) Sinister strike if you can push it if not recuperate now for a basic heal

4) a couple Sinister strikes

5) evisorate

Note that for non elite or single targets recuperate can interchanged for evisorate. Also an effective folow on from an ambush evisorate combo.

Comment by Roguesaxaphone

that sword is unique so you can only have 1Chromatically Tempered Swords
but there is a sword that looks like it
look up bloodfang armor for my comment

Comment by guatafu

Now you see me....Now you don't

Reference to Starcraft´s Terran Ghost

Edit: My bad is not from a ghost, I know I´ve heard that phrase before somewhere but cant seem to remember, will appreciate if anyone reminds me.

Comment by 614881

whats the best spec for pvp?

Comment by 747430

not sure how i missed the removal of anethesthetic poisons. :(

Comment by guatafu

Small, greedy and deceptive. Goblin is THE Rogue race.

Comment by Johnnyrev

Has anyone noticed after cata rogues can not dis arm Hunter traps when they ( Hunter ) go into stealth ( or whatever they call it )and further more...can not attack, sap,etc. target is obscured! even if u are right behind them!...Basically u have to let the hunter see u attack u break ur stealth and fight from there! is this just another Knock back on rogues cause just about everything breaks stealth now! particularly annoying when u have to Try and fight against classes with pets or minions that have as much Hpand armor as their master ( so to Speak ) and can misdirect disorient etc a rogue from primary target faster and more often than u can re-aquire them ( at least in some/most cases )

Today I just ran some tests with a guild hunter while in Camo they only way i can attack them is to kick to break their stealth at same time as mine which does no advantage for rogue as it gives no combo points and element of surprise is lost!...as far as traps they are glitched some times i can dis arm them some times it seems only when they interrupt their camo to lay more traps etc. but is not always the case!...I tried cheap shot, garrote, ambush sap, Blind, gauge while standing in front of him to the side and behind with and with out stealth and the only way to attack is my kick effectively breaking my stealth or out right taking stealth off and auto attack or sin strike all melee attacks and by the description of camo it says makes them hard to hit from ranged attacks? i even tried to disarm them while standing in front with out stealth and the message is always the same "target is obscured"!

Comment by DarkAssassin

Meaning Of Rogues in WoW: A**sReaper

Comment by murdershot21

Everyone is forgetting this is the class played by the idiotic fratboys that claim you have no life and are generally unskilled and a liability.

Comment by nayrb

what talent tree should a rogue at around lvl 23 have and what at medium and last lvls?(both for PvP)

PvP rogues are going to continue to debate this question, and each one will have their own valid points.

I, personally, leveled Subtlety because I enjoyed one hitting everything with Ambush. Subtlety is the best class to match up against clothies at all levels. Once you learn Shadow Dance, you'll be unstoppable.

Assassination seems to be the way most rogues are going (PvP and PvE). Update: Most PvE rogues roll Combat now, but Assassination is still a decent choice. Assassination is great for dropping a plate wearer due to the consistent solid dps. I'm not a huge fan of Assassination for PvP because of limited escape moves and high reliance of poisons.

I'm not too familiar with Combat Rogues. As far as I understand, they are able to be engaged in combat for longer periods of time while surviving. Killing Spree is also one of the coolest moves WoW has to offer. This is also the way to go when you would rather dual wield swords, axes, maces, or fist weapons (while the other two are set up for daggers). The problem is that I have never really had a combat rogue ever be a threat to me. I've rolled several other toons, and combat rogues fall short. If you look around at other rogues, you'll very rarely see them spec'd combat. I would only consider Combat if you have epic non-dagger weapons when epic daggers are not available (aka never).

To sum it all up, duel spec Assassination and Subtlety. Use Assassination for your PvE, and learn to PvP in both.

Comment by 774062

you know, i had a lvl 23 ally subtlety rogue and at bgs i did about 500 crit with ambush. that was half of pally,warrior and other classes health. now i started again with a horde one this time that is why i am asking. with my other rogue i just couldn't kill them!so i am thinking of being subtlety until lvl 19 and then assasination. But is 500 crit with ambush good dps at lvl 23?all the players had 600-1200 HP.

Comment by 479779

A Rogue will kill
Your guts will he spill
If you have a dagger he needs,
He'll kill you, then on you he will feed
For a copper and some bling
He'll even kill a king
A Rogue is a nasty customer.

Comment by 788022

hey everyone..
I just recently got back into the game, I have a Rouge build that was pretty awesome. Lots of stuns quick attacks mostly combat and assassination and very few stealth moves.
I went this way because it seemed the stealth in PvP was useless. So when I log in I get a message stating that my talents have been reset.. Dayum! I can't remember how I had it setup, and when I use all the calculators it seems only one branch can be used. I hope that is not the case here, so when I log back into my Rogue duel welding swords with poison, should I just go combat? will I be able to combat/assassination? Because I really got used to killing spree and all my stun hits/kicks.
I seem to be reading that Rogues are given some love now with the latest Cataclysm changes.

Comment by 760803

Rogues should have a suicide option just so when you know your gonna get ganked, you just top yourself so no one gets honor.. just for teh lulz.

Comment by 527874

I love rogues, theyre easy to level and are the ultimate pvp class. Although it is kinda repetitive ( Shadowstep,Ambush,Eviscerate=kill) it will easily be one of the funnest class you play.

I think they have everything that one playing a paladin is missing.

I am only sad that you can be a druid and be a rogue. It seems op to me that a class can be another class.

Comment by 527874

Definitely Subtlety for pvp. Speedy stealth and extreme ambushes, as well as a move to instantly move you into position for an ambush, makes you have the kind of spec that is perfect for picking off healers, pesky rdps, and flag carriers(yes, you WILL make them cry)

Comment by Spalatum

The rogue is sappin' mah healer!

Comment by 801799

Rogues kill pple in house and garden, but only if you know how to play. Still, for mages (like me) they are bane of my existence. They also have one of game's most irritating and hard technique: Stunlocking. Rogues FTW

Comment by Wuten

I love my rogue, been playing him since patch 2.3, seen both the ups and downs of the rogue class since then.

Though, mostly the ups, we're freakin' deadly. >:)

My personal favorite talent tree is Combat, simply because now, in Cata with the new revamped talents and buffs, I can essentially act as an off-tank for the last 500k of the boss' health, more or less, if the tank kicks the bucket in 5-man normals and heroics.

Screw the Alliance and Horde! Ravenholdt FTW!

Comment by 822216

Yeah baby ,Rogue may do it from behind , but everyone else takes it from behind :P !

Comment by 761154

lol, I love how rogues are stereotyped to pwn hunters (or "huntards"). =P
Just wing clip and disengage the bastard. xD
Serpent sting too to screw up his stealth...

^--------An idiots guide to hunter stuff lawl

I like playing a Rogue surprisingly, they are the funnest class to play in PvP
i remember sapping some Ally in AB, and they started saying stuff like "Rogue, holy shat!" in common. ^.^

Comment by Samurai4ya

The Most Funniest Moment in PvP is when a rouge finds another rouge stealthing along unaware of u, stealthing behind him, and SAP, the End. I Always do the Bag of T on them for the lulz. =P

Comment by 793788

And now you also don't have to choose another Poison because you have leveled a bit. All posions are buyable from level 10

EDIT:
1: Fixed (30-20=10)
2: Why isn't this the reply it was supposed to be?

Comment by 763737

...this is a game where you have a freedom of choice. Use that freedom.
You are free to use whatever build you like most, instead of constant nagging and asking those same stupid questions:"Oooh, what build should I use? What specc is THE best?", nag nag nag.
...
Rogues are very much down to earth class. Its not complicated to play a rogue, its not nuclear physics, it won't make you bad player if you use currently, God forbid, "unpopular" specc.
Its about hiding in the shadows, lurking, waiting that right time to strike and as you lay an ambush; to surprise the crap out of your target and to hang his spine on a nearest tree.
Its all in that element of surprise. Every specc has that element.

Comment by 223204

Assassination emphasizes the bleeds and poisons

I think you'll find Subtlety has the most emphasis on bleed-based damage, with Hemorrhage and it's glyph, Saguinary Vein, Serrated Blades, and improved Garrote through Opportunity. Combat is more based around going toe-to-toe with people in a physical fight, and assassination has more direct and over-time poison abilities.

Shortened Version list:

Assassination - Poison biased
Combat - Physical biased
Subtlety - Bleed biased

Comment by 833340

Subtlety Rogues, PvP:

I like to Stealth. Find my Target then Premeditation (or is it Preperation? Get those confused, I just know where to click on my bar) for the Combo Point. Then I Shadowstep to end up right behind him with more Combo Points. Then I Ambush for some pretty high Damage and a great WTF! moment.

I Kidney Shot to put him down for 6 Seconds (worth so much more than 1 Evisicerate). Also, if he has a Trinket or EMFH then I just forced him to Use It... or die. Now, let's say he doesn't Pop Trinket... I Shadow Dance, Ambush, Ambush, Ambush. Yes, if you time it right with your Energy and button clicks, you can drop 3 Ambushes in that 6 Seconds. If he is somehow still alive (Resi gear, usually) I Eviscerate on a Full 5 Combo.

Anything that lives after that is going to be a battle on your hand, especially if he had a Trinket to Pop and didn't. Most, especially Clothies and some Leathers, should already be dead. If he is ALMOST dead I'll Vanish and get behind for what should be one last Ambush. 4 Ambush and 1 5 Combo Eviscerate is pretty tough to deal with, especially if Poisons are Proccing. Adding that 5th Ambush after Vanish shouldn't be neccassary unless you are against a Beast.

This is where you now need to be able to use some skill (as what I put above is just some handy button clicking while watching to see if he Pops Trinket). Now you use things like Blind. Also, a smart use of your (Talent) /the one that resets Cloak of Shadows, Vanish, etc... Preperation? Premeditation? One of them./ will allow you to start the string all over again.

I always lead with this (Ambush to 5 Combo Kidney Shot) because if they DON'T Trinket, I got a huge advantage. This leaves Lesser things like Blind or using a Vanish to Sap (since Cheap Shot is cooling down with my Kidney Shot) and reset or avoid the target. I think all the DPS (Ambushes in a rush, 5 Combo Eviscerate) are worth the risk of them Popping Trinket.

I use Crippling Poison on Main Hand and Instant Poison on Off Hand (Crippling means more to me as it makes it easier for me to stay with the Target if he tries to flee) and I don't want DoTs breaking any of my Stuns (like Blind or Sap). Sometimes I use Deadly Poison and Crippling, and try not to use Blind or Sap (as Crippling would break them) because 5 Stacks of Deadly will auto proc the Crippling. I do this when I'm out-manned by Resi wearers, as it helps me get away if things go bad. By the time 5 Deadly hit I know if I can win it or not... usually not by that time... and he is Crippled so I have a better chance of getting out. Still, Crippling and Instant are the better method.

What's your favorite String (Sub or Not) to get that WTF expression on their faces?

Comment by 846034

What's your favorite String (Sub or Not) to get that WTF expression on their faces?

Assassinations Rogue; Level 69

My strings isn't complicated at all, just a lot of button clicking like above. If their one of my favorite classes to gank, like clothies or druids, i just burst them down. I'll stealth (obviously) and sneak up to my target. I cheap shot, and with talents, it hopefully gave me an extra combo point. One Mutilate later I'm at 5 CP, so I hit and do an eviscerate. Since its usually about a 4.5k crit, they're gone. Thats my WTF string. Happy roguin'!

Comment by Roayal

Rogue are make for killing those lazy auctioneers in horde/alliance cities =) That´s their work,ya :P

Comment by George14

In PvE, Rogues are expected to get their target under 75% health from an opener when using Ambush and others. If not, your gear is bad.

Comment by 881089

nvm I take it back

Comment by FluidDruid3

I need help, or a suggestion. I'm trying to decide between a Troll, Goblin, Blood Elf, or Undead Rogue. (For each of their Racials). Trolls have increased damage against beasts, thrown weapon & bow specialization, stun duration reductions, increased regeneration, and the cool-down on Berserker. As a rogue attack speed periodically is nice, as well as regeneration and thrown/bow damage increase (plus damage done to beasts). Goblins have the nice discount and the permanent but low haste increase. Undead have a "Insignia of the Horde" Racial, Shadow Resistance, & can use a cooldown high power version of Recuperate; also, as of more recent patches, a damage & heal on hit bonus was released. Blood Elf benefits are Arcane Resistance, possible use of the Enchanting increase, & the silence/resource restore cooldown. To summarize it, I am having trouble finding the best race to use as a Rogue. The only other thing I can think of is the upside to goblins is as well as Rogues having stealth, they have small size on their side if PvP enemies click-to-target. Any help & useful information will help. Also consider this as something to mull over if you wish to play a Horde Rogue.

Comment by polabeard

Can't rogues use throwing knives?

Comment by keyur

I heard in MoP throwing weapon may be removed...What will happen to Fan of Knives? I like old FoK - WoLK one.

Comment by 941889

As Samuro of the Elite Tauren chieftains says,

"Rogues do it from behind!"

They infact do. Almost everything you want to do as a rogue is from behind. Of course, though, you probably won't be behind your opponent unless you have a tank with you, or in PvP, but whenever you're doing an instance with a group, or pvping, you should ALWAYS stay behind your target.

The rogue has the most freedom out of any class. Why? They can choose their own battles. You can decide who to take in WSG, you can decide who to stun in an instant. Heck, it is always awesome when you sap that dang healer in Warsong Gulch and just stunlock that Flag Carrier, especially when that Flag Carrier just runs ahead, out of healing range.

As a rogue, you are more viable in PvP, rather than PvE, because you have little to offer to the raid than raw DPS. Raw DPS is useful in PvP, but in PvE, you don't have much to offer.

You have a variety of poisons, each with different effects that can slow, damage, and debuff your opponent. This is also helpful, because you can simply poison your weapons while stealthed! This gives you the time to apply the correct poisons while that crappy caster is sapped.

You have a variety of interrupts and stuns that will wreck anybody's day up. If you are skilled enough, some undergeared 85s with 113K health may be able to take down those with 150K health. A rogue in full S11, gems, and enchants are pretty much a death sentence to whoever they are against. Critting 30-40K with ambush, and stunning the enemy for 3/4 of the battle.

You are one of the most brutal classes, with the most avoidance. Remember that. But you are also squishy. If you don't have that PvP trinket, and that pally gets a hammer of justice on you, you are pretty much dead.

Pretty much, a rogue is good for dealing a ton of damage, no matter which spec, and they have a ton of utility and stunning. They can choose their own battles, and can make quick work with almost everything you see in a BG before they do much damage to you.

Comment by Flashadow

you dont play rogue to have fun, you play rogue to make sure no one else has any

Comment by 961436

I remember you use to be able to have your talent tree mixed up. i always went half assassin and half Sub. i whooped alot of butt back then in pvp. back then rogues were monsters at pvp, im not a fan of that new talent change.

Comment by 370533

** english version below **

Fala pessoal, blz?

Olha só, criei um blog e lá estou colocando alguns tutoriais da classe. Estou fazendo vídeos, que serão semanais, o primeiro coloquei ontem de noite e fala sobre movimentação, algo crítico, pelo menos na minha opinião, para um bom dps melee.

Mais informações em http://roguebr.blogspot.com/

Valeu, abraços.

---------------
Hello everyone,

I've just created my own blog and it's about rogue tutorials. I am making weekly videos, which the first i upload last night, and it talks about how to move your char properly, which in my opinion is a very critical thing for a melee dps.

More info at http://roguebr.blogspot.com/

Thanks,

Comment by Pleasehelpme

Can some one help? im a sub rogue and i dont know if im doing it right :P. i Stealth , shadowstep, sap, ambush, hemorage, evisorate, then i use hermorage alot :P

Comment by decipherable

Looks like someone made a mistake up top under the "Quick Facts":

Specs:
Arcane
Fire
Frost

*Only applies to the MoP version of this page.

Edit: This has been fixed.

Comment by 984899

After TBC came out, it genuinely took me a while to figure out exactly why Draenei couldn't be Rogues.

Comment by Atreidas

Rogues......
( -_-)

( -_-)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■)
DO IT FROM BEHIND.

Comment by 986364

ima start a rogue :D

Comment by 987470

By Pleasehelpme:
Can some one help? im a sub rogue and i dont know if im doing it right :P. i Stealth , shadowstep, sap, ambush, hemorage, evisorate, then i use hermorage alot :P
--------------------
hordewarrior2000:
Well, if you're pveing, then that's fine, but if you're pvping, remember to sometimes open with cheap shot, then hemo 1-2 times, kidney shot and spam hemo. I usually do this on plate wearers, so then they can't really do anything. But keep one-shotting those clothies with ambush =)
------------------
hordewarrior2000:
Also eviscerate after the kidney shot (if they don't die from the hemos)

No, you're not doing it right, and hordewarrior2000 is incorrect. (Also, I'd do this as a reply if I knew how to. >_< )
I'm going to assume, from what you said, that you're PvP'ing. I'm also going to assume you're PvP'ing at 85. Feel free to respond and correct me if either of those are wrong.

Yes, you start in stealth. As a Sub rogue, you should always be in stealth unless you're in combat or flagrunning in a BG (Bad idea unless it's a dire emergency).
First, you use on your target. This will give you an extra two combo points that you can use for either Slice and Dice or . As you should have a fair amount of Mastery (You don't need to reforge to Crit rating after about 35-ish percent, which you should get most, if not all, of it from straight Agi thanks to and T11 Ruthless Glad's secondary stats (I'm assuming, again, that you're at least halfway geared)), Slice and Dice is capable of lending a nice little DPS boost in fights (No matter what hordewarrior2000 claims, you're not going to be one-shotting ANYONE unless they're naked, with res sickness, etc. Period.) and also makes poison procs more likely (due to raw attack speed bonus). The is an option because if you have (which you should), then your will cause you to regenerate energy, making it less energy-starving to use Backstab, which should be your filler.
Second, you use Shadowstep to get close; however, due to the 70% movement speed increase (modified by Nightstalker to give you a grand total of ~187% movement speed for 3 seconds), there's no reason to use Sap. In fact, there are reasons to not use it; first, it costs 35 Energy. That's the cost of a Hemorrhage. So instead of Sap'ing, just Shadowstep and then toss out Ambush. The procs from your Ambush and Backstab should let you keep up with them, especially if you have Minor Speed to boots (+8% movement speed). Second, it makes you lose the element of surprise. Unless your opponent literally just bought their account on Ebay five minutes ago, they know what Sap is and they know it means you're there, so they have their PvP trink ready to pop, and if they're running with friends, they're probably calling them over via Skype, Vent, Mumble, etc.
Overall, you're going to use Hemorrhage probably once or twice over the course of an entire encounter, unless you're being kited hard enough that you can't get behind them. A Sub rogue's PvP filler should be Backstab, as it has the highest DER (Damage to Energy Ratio) of any non-stealth ability.
The reason why you use Hemorrhage at all is because of two things. and Charred Glyph. This will save you the trouble of trying to maintain Rupture(for ) on a target, which is difficult in most PvP scenarios.
Most of the time, the fight ->should<- go something like this:
Premeditation
Recuperate
Shadowstep
Ambush
Hemorrhage
(need to be behind them now);
Backstab
Backstab
Slice and Dice or Eviscerate, depending on how much HP they have. Only use Evis if it'll kill them. In all honesty, you shouldn't have them nearly dead yet, unless you have people helping you.
Backstab
Backstab
Hemorrhage
Backstab
Recuperate
If they're not close to or below 50% HP at this point, they're probably not killable by you, and you should Vanish and try to get away. "Cheap and cowardly" they say, I know, but an alive 'coward' rogue who can come back and kill them another time is more helpful than a dead one sitting in GY.

What a friend and I do is this:
We're both Sub rogues. (We also both use T13 PvE 2-set, which every rogue who does this trick needs)
We both set the other as focus.
Set up the following macro:
/cast Tricks of the Trade
/cast Shadowdance
And then we blow up the same target using Shadowdance and Ambush spam.

Here's a spec for people to play around with and tweak. Have fun. http://thottbot.com/talent#fMhcZZfMfsducRho

And for hordewarrior2000's benefit: PvE Sub is more rigorous than PvP Sub if you want to pull even halfway competitive DPS. Try it sometime.

As always, feel free to reply to my posts. Questions, comments and concerns are always welcomed, and I'll try to get to them as soon as I notice them.

EDIT: Added a link to a the site's talent calculator, with the basic Sub Rogue PvP spec loaded.
EDIT #2: Corrected several grammatical errors that occurred due to sleeplessness.

Comment by 174766

hiding in plain sight since 2004

Comment by Wolfgenerator

Shadowmeld is like a low level vanish or extra vanish for night elf rogues. I love it, really helps in PvP when I kill someone and then am overwhelmed <3

Comment by Wolfgenerator

If you think rogues are &*!@#$%s then roll one yourself, go sub, and try out some bgs. You'll soon change your mind.

Comment by 999179

how can a rouge us a ranged weapon?

Comment by imri500

I would like to mention that by far, the best race for a rogue is either a night elf or a dwarf, the dwarf having some advantege.

The reason being very simply, a dwarf's racial, Stoneskin, gives extra survivabillity, which is always good, and, the critical abillity to remove bleed effects. Nothing more annoying then having a warrior rend you. As your now stuck out of stealth for the duration and nothing will help you.

But Stoneskin will. It allowes you to complete your immunity and get rid of ANY effect.
:D

Nightelves get Shadowmeld as their racial, which allowes them to enter a stationary state of stealth, lasting untill they move. This used to be amazing since there was a bug that made it so if you were sitting with Shadowmeld on, you would take no damage from DoTs. This has been fixed. but while Shadowmelded you are un-targetable, meaning if you have no DoTs on you, you can easily Shadowmeld into stealth.

Do remember that this is just my personal opinion, do not send me strongly worded letters about how your a blood elf rogue and your amazing and im a noob etc. <3

Comment by baneozan

Is this somekind of a bug?
When i play my Rogue and Gouge or Blind an enemy pet in PvP and then i Vanish,the pet follows me and attacks me even tough i vanished o_O
Why?

Comment by andypoop20

That moment when your in a battleground and you see a rogue stealth and walk towards you and you just know that your sooooooo %^&*ed

Comment by darnauch

A rogue? Where?

Comment by 927464

Love being a rouge very snecky and all plus i love rocking with them when u face off a boss or an enemy

Comment by perculia

5.4 Changes

General

Ambush damage has been increased by 12%.
Evasion now increases dodge chance by 100% (was 50%), cooldown has been reduced to 2 minutes (down from 3 minutes), and duration has been reduced to 10 seconds (down from 15 seconds).
Dispatch now deals 10% less damage.
Fan of Knives damage has been increased by 25%.
now restores 4% of maximum health every 3 seconds, up from 3%.
Sinister Strike deals an increased 240% of weapon damage (up from 145%), but now costs 50 Energy (up from 40 Energy).

Assassination

Assassination Rogues should no longer be eligible for any other weapon types except daggers in situations where loot is automatically awarded(Raid Finder, Bonus Rolls, Heroic/Normal Scenarios, and the upcoming Flexible Raid difficulty.)
Blindside now deals 645% weapon damage (up from 460%).
Mutilate now deals 280% weapon damage (up from 200%).

Combat

New passive ability, Ruthlessness: This passive ability is learned by Combat Rogues at Level 32. The Rogue gains a 20% chance per combo point (100% chance at 5 combo points) to immediately regain 1 combo point while performing a finishing move.
Killing Spree targeting has been changed. If Blade Flurry is not active, Killing Spree will now hit the Rogue's target 7 times or pick the closest eligible target if none had been selected. Killing Spree will continue to work as it has while Blade Flurry is active.
now deals 160% weapons damage (up from 125%).
Combat Potency now increases Attack Power by 40% (up from 30%).

Subtlety

Backstab now deals 380% weapon damage (up from 275%).
Hemorrhage now deals 160% weapons damage (up from 140%); 232% weapons damage if a dagger is equipped (up from 203% for daggers).
now increases damage against targets with bleed effects by 25% (up from 20%).

Talents

Burst of Speed's cost has been reduced to 15 Energy (down from 30 Energy).
Cheat Death now reduces damage taken by 85% after activating (up from 80%).
now allows the Rogue to use Ambush, Garrote, and Cheap Shot from 40 yards away (up from 30 yards).
Nightstalker now increases damage dealt by abilities while stealthed by 50%, up from 25%.
now stuns the target at 4 applications of the poison (down from 5 applications).
Shadowstep now has a reduced cooldown of 20 seconds (down from 24 seconds).

Glyphs

Major Glyphs

Glyph of Adrenaline Rush's effect is now baseline and has been replaced with Charred Glyph.
Charred Glyph now reduces the cooldown of Redirect by 50 seconds (down from Redirect no longer has a cooldown).

Charred Glyph now only removes damage-over-time effects that would cause Blind to break. For Rogues that also have the Dirty Tricks talent, this means Blind will no longer remove the Rogue’s poison or bleed effects.
Glyph of Crippling Poison has been replaced with Charred Glyph.

Charred Glyph now causes Fan of Knives to also damage the armor of its victims, applying 1 application of the Weakened Armor effect to each target.

Glyph of Debilitation has been replaced with Charred Glyph.

Charred Glyph increases the healing received by the Rogue while is active.

Charred Glyph now increases the healing of by an additional 1% (up from 0.5%).
Glyph of Sap has been replaced with Charred Glyph.

Charred Glyph causes ability to also increase damage done to targets affected by Hemorrhage.

Charred Glyph now reduces the cooldown of Shiv by 3 seconds (was 2 seconds).

New Minor Glyphs

Charred Glyph: Distract now summons a decoy at the target location.
Charred Glyph: Throw and Deadly Throw abilities will now throw axes regardless of the Rogue's currently equipped weapon.

Class Armor

Rogue Tier-15 4-piece set bonus (Item - Rogue T15 4P Bonus) now causes Shadow Blades to reduce the cost of all abilities by 15% (down from 40%).

Bug Fix

Fixed an issue where certain conditions can cause Blade Flurry to not deal damage to additional nearby opponents.

5.3 Changes

Talents

now requires the Rogue to be in Stealth. will not remove the Stealth requirement for .
Shuriken Toss now deals 100% more damage in the initial ranged attack, damage is no longer doubled when used on targets farther than 10 yards away, and energy cost has been increased to 40 energy, up from 20.

Glyphs

Charred Glyph now increases the duration of Cheap Shot by 0.5 second, down from 1 second.
Charred Glyph now increases the duration of Garrote's silence effect by 1 second, down from 1.5 seconds.

Combat

Blade Flurry's damage to secondary targets should no longer be affected by Resilience or PvP power if the primary target was a player as both had already been factored in for the initial damage calculation.
now lasts 24 seconds, up from 18 seconds.

Subtlety

Find Weakness now bypasses 100% of armor against non-player targets, and bypasses 50% of armor when used against other players (was 70% armor bypass for all targets).

Patch 5.2 Changes (Source)

is now a baseline ability learned at level 68 and no longer resets the cooldown on Cloak of Shadows.
Versatility has been removed.
New Level 90 Talent: Marked for Death

Marks a target and instantly generates 5 combo points. When that target dies, Marked for Death's cooldown is reset. This talent has a 1 minute cooldown.

New Level 60 Talent:

Ambush, Garrote, and Cheap Shot now have a 30 yard range, and will cause the Rogue to teleport behind the target.

Burst of Speed now costs 30 Energy (was 50 Energy), can be used in Stealth, and always grants increased movement speed in addition to breaking snare effects, but no longer breaks root effects.
Shuriken Toss now causes the Rogue to throw ranged shurikens coated in Lethal Poison instead of auto-attacking for up to 10 seconds if the enemy is farther than 10 yards away.
Deadly Throw can now interrupt spellcasting when used at 3, 4, and 5 combo points, and upon interrupt prevents any spell in that school from being cast for 4, 5 and 6 seconds respectively (was 5 combo points and 6 seconds).
Blind now has a cooldown of 2 minutes (was 1.5 minutes).
• Cloak of Shadows now has a cooldown of 1 minute (was 2 minutes).
Smoke Bomb now reduces damage taken by allies in the area of effect by 20% in addition to current effects.
Nerve Strike now reduces the effectiveness of healing provided by the target by 10% (was 25%).
Shadow Focus now reduces ability energy costs by 75% while stealthed (was 100%).
PvP set bonuses have been changed:

Vigor is now the 4 piece set bonus and increases maximum energy by 30 (was 10).
Deadly Brew is now the 2 piece set bonus, and its effects remain unchanged.

Combat

Combat Potency now increases attack power by 30% (was 25%).
Blade Flurry has been changed. It now strikes up to 4 additional nearby targets for 40% of normal damage.

Subtlety

now increases the damage the target takes by 20% (was 16%).

Changes in Mists of Pandaria

Slow off-hands are now viable. All fast weapons are now changed to slower speeds on beta. Abilities like Combat Potency support this change.
Level 87 class ability: Shadow Blades: Autoattacks deal pure Shadow damage. Combo-point-generating attacks generate 1 additional combo point.
In addition Shadow Blades, each specialization now has a reworked ability that gives the player a chance at generating another combo point: , Seal Fate, .
New AoE ability: Crimson Tempest: Finishing move that consumes combo points on any nearby target to slash at the flesh of all enemies within 8 yards, dealing Physical damage and causing victims to bleed and suffer an additional 30% of the initial damage over 12 sec. This works nicely with Fan of Knives for an AoE rotation, which now generates a combo point when used.
New Level 76 ability allowing party to stealth: Shroud of Concealment: Extend a cloak that wraps party and raid members within 20 yards in shadows, concealing them from sight for up to 15 sec.
New Level 72 ability increasing stealth effectiveness: : Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec.
Blindside is a new Assassination ability that has good synergy with Blindside, which gives you a 30% chance of a free Blindside.
Charred Glyph got nerfed pretty harshly: instead of reducing the recipient's damage boost by 5%, it now grants no damage boost to a target.
Level 90 talents: Anticipation, Shuriken Toss, .
Removed Abilities: Cold Blood, Overkill, Ruthlessness, Vile Poisons.

Poison Changes

Poisons have been reworked extensively in Mists of Pandaria. You do not buy poisons from vendors anymore and apply one to each weapon. Instead, poisons are a type of spell and have been classified as Lethal (damage dealing) and Non-Lethal (utility). You may have one poison of each type active at the same time.

Lethal Poisons:

Wound Poison: Each weapon strike has a chance of inflicting additional Nature damage to the victim and reducing all healing effects on them for 15 sec.
Deadly Poison: Each strike has a chance of causing the target to suffer Nature damage every 3 sec for 12 sec. Subsequent poison applications deal instant Nature damage.
Instant Poison has been removed.

Non-Lethal Poisons:

Crippling Poison: Each strike has a chance of poisoning the enemy, slowing their movement speed by 50% for 12 sec.
Numbing Poison: Each strike has a chance of poisoning the enemy, slowing their spellcasting by 50% for 10 sec.
Leeching Poison: Weapon strikes have a chance to poison the target, causing the Rogue's subsequent weapon strikes to heal the Rogue for 10% of damage dealt.
: Each strike has a chance of poisoning the enemy for 15 sec. Stacks up to 5 times on a single target, and upon a fifth application, the enemy will be stunned for 4 seconds.

Using Shiv with Non-Lethal Poisons creates "concentrated" effects:

Crippling Poison: An intense application of Crippling Poison reduces the target's movement speed by 70% for 12 sec.
: Increases the time required to cast the next spell by 100%.
: Instantly restores 5% of the Rogue's health.
: Concentrated Paralytic Poison causes instant paralysis of an enemy's lower body, rooting them in place for 4 sec.

(##RESPBREAK##)2##DELIM##perculia##DELIM##

Comment by Sooba

O-M-G-G
You can't see me, me
I'm blending in just like a pine tree
I am unseen, You can't see me cuz
I'm a ninja, nin, ninja, ninja, nin, ninja!

/cast stealth

Comment by 810295

I love playing my Rogue because most of my play is solo PvE. It makes quick work of almost any quest and I can get in and out of almost anywhere without having to do too much fighting. Collecting objects is easy because I can just Sap the mob, grab the object, then go invisible again, and Fan of Knives makes easy work of even a modest-sized group of mobs. If you're wanting to play solo, Rogue is the way to go.

Comment by Yakeshi

Sent by my daggers to the spiritual plane!
While you fall to the ground, you are writhing in your pain!
And as you look in my eyes, you see I'm clearly insane!
'Cause boy, you might hit like a truck?
*Ambush sound effect*
... But I crit like a TRAIN!

Edit: Probably. :P

Comment by Elsiaida

I've seen a lvl 1 rogue one-hit an 85 DK ... no rogues aren't OP.

Comment by 1113521

Really good class for arenas!

Comment by gbalkam

While rogues cannot tank, abilities such as Combat Readiness, Evasion, and Recuperate make them sturdy for farming and soloing lower-level content.

Obviously, whoever wrote this has never played a pve rogue.

A rogue will never be a main or even off tank. But, if no druid is in the group, or hunter with a tanking pet, a rogue is going to be the healers first choice of back up tanks, and will be their primary healing target. Why? Very simple. Rogues stack massive amounts of agility. This agility gives a rogue an enormous amount of dodge, usually far in excess of anything an actual tank can spec to.

Ask any healer, who, in priority, they will pick as a back up tank, if there are no other plate classes in the group. I bet you will find rogues high in the preference list.

I have personally tanked 5 mobs (and as many as 7) after the tank died because he did a bad pull, and also had high enough damage output to keep aggro off a careful healer. The idea is to use your evasive abilities for as long as they last, kill as many mobs as possible while those abilities are active, and then keep on, relying on your stacked dodge and keep at it until you either finish the pull or die, by which time, there should be very few mobs left to kill the healer.

*more than 5 mobs gets rather tricky, so also relies on the rest of the group, such as a hunter and warlock taking advantage of the rogues cool downs to pull out tanking minions / pets*

Comment by 1107124

Why I play rogue: Stealth. I freakin' love Stealth. Dat Stealth. Oh and another thing, Stealth. Did I mention Stealth? And last but not least, Stealth.

Comment by 319936

Hearthstone: Valeera Sanguinar

Comment by stealthmann

Anyone knows a good transmog for night elf?

Comment by WaterCherry

If you're Assassination, your enemy will die Poisoned.
If you're Subtlety, your enemy will die In the Sleep.
If you're Combat, your enemy will die Fighting You.

Comment by Lyste

How the specializations work without getting too specific about abilities and PvE/PvP:

Subtlety: Specializes in stealth, bleeding effects and stunning.

Assassination: Specializes in doing as much damage as possible in the first hit after stealth (Ambush, etc.), daggers and poisons.

Combat: Specializes in post-stealth combat, survival and crowd DPS.

Comment by Eido

According to the 5.4.8 Patch Notes:

Burst of Speed can now be activated to remove movement-slowing effects even if another
movement speed bonus, such as Sprint, is already present (the speed bonuses will still not stack). - source

Comment by Zaiyanboi

SEVERELY underrated

Comment by phoenix9884

My second favorite class aside from warlocks. And my first hated class when I am a warlock.

Comment by 319936

WoW Rogue vs. Hearthstone Valeera Sanguinar:
Combat:

Assassination:

Shiv : Shiv
Deadly Poison : Deadly Poison

Subtlety:

Comment by Naticutzu

Oh hi!
Name's Joe!
When Joe gets things, Joe is happy.
And when Joe is not happy, it's bad, very bad
Because Joe'll bash ur gnome m8s heads out of Azeroth and he swers on his mum he'll do so if he does not get the WoD beta-key!
U have 24 m8s if not so, Joe will get angry and I tell you again and mind it m8s you don't want this to happen at all costs!

With love,
Joe

Comment by Flubchub

I love playing on my Rogue; they're a lot of fun! But, for some reason I can't seem to reach the DPS that I would like with my current gear. On my hunter I can do around 40k – 80k higher DPS with ~10 lower iLvl. I've tried researching various specs, rotation, reforging, etc., and I can't seem to raise my DPS to the level that I should be doing. I guess I'm just bad at playing the beautiful class of Rogue. I disgrace Rogues everywhere Ra'sha's Sacrificial Dagger.

Comment by Douglazz16

Well Rogues can be pretty good at their survival too!
They got Recuperate
Leeching Poison
Evasion
Cloak of Shadows

They can withstand a huge amount of dmg too, nearly as much as a plate bearer! That's even more awesome!

Comment by Loupland

I like rogues... Thieves and scum is what they are! Thieves and scum.

Comment by Punkyfunky

thnx a lot Perculia for the fost really helpfull

Comment by aziemer09

Okay, so first impression of the Quality of Life improvements for the Rogue. I think they're welcome. No more having to clunk up your rotation by spamming a secondary key, you're combo points are there, ready to be used. Easier to queue up bigger finishers, easier to keep track of what you're doing.

I've played off and on since BC, and usually Rogue was what I played. I feel like there's not an impetus to utilize the "mash ALL buttons" playstyle, and I can play the class as I really want to, which is the guy sneaking around, choosing where and how I'll engage and then coming out of stealth into a massive flurry of action.

But that's just me, and my opinion.

Comment by 2259

So my iLvl is still relatively low (608) and I only hit 100 yesterday evening, but I have all the Perks for Assassination and thought I'd put down feelings so far...

- Improved Slice and Dice - best perk I think so far - removes the need to activate it, lowering ramp up time for damage and one less timer to worry about. Only have to worry about getting Rupture up ASAP and Envenom up as close to 100% of the time. Maybe simplifies Assassination a little bit down to 3-4 spells, but still, nicer in dungeons and questing.

- Empowered Envenom - really nice for those <35% parts of fights - spamming Dispatch and Envenom, damage really puts out. Nice.

- Enhanced Vendetta - now a really nice way to open vs a boss now - Vendetta, Ambush - guaranteed Ambush crit and with Sealed Fate, 3 combo points straight off the bat, meaning you get Rupture up quicker.

- Enhanced Crimson Tempest - really not sure of this. I guess I don't really play Rogue to do a load of AoE damage, but find it difficult to kill even lower groups of enemies (think those mini-packs of quest mobs where you need to collect stuff - red globs of stuff in Talador spring to mind) even with this. Maybe it'll work better against larger groups of trash mobs in raids.

So, really, quite a nice way for us to get up on the damage quicker, even in shorter fights, generally happy and now want to try out of some of the other spec perks!

Comment by Stizelswik

What character, do you think, would make the best rogue? I wanna try one out... Thanks.

Comment by stevegoryan

What is the slightest, shadiest outfit for a lvl 100 rogue? Maybe dark gray, or black (black and red?) as long as it's tight and shadowy/sneaky. I'll transmog the hell out of what I've got if needed, but I'm kinda tired of these obnoxious hoods and intrusive thorny shoulders. Hell even my foot gear looks like I'm wading through a cow meadow! What ever happened to a stealthy look?

Ideas? Set items? Misc similar items? Anything dark and sleek. :-)

Comment by 1050104

This is just my opinion, but:

1. The assassination rogue spec uses the eviscerate icon, but assassination rogues don't use eviscerate, because it gets replaced with envenom (the other two specs do use eviscerate).

2. The eviscerate ability picture depicts a knife, dagger, or otherwise bladed weapon about to stab into a male's neck. However, a dictionary tells us that eviscerate is defined as follows:

eviscerate
verb (used with object), eviscerated, eviscerating.
1. to remove the entrails from; disembowel

Evisceration does deal as well with the deprivation of a vital part of a person; however, in a general sense, evisceration is a term reserved mainly for disembowelment.

3. The combat rogue spec uses the 'backstab' icon as the specialization icon. Combat rogues are the only rogues that do not have either of the two abilities that also use this icon (Assassination has Dispatch; Subtlety has Backstab).

4. Combat rogues use the ability Killing Spree. The in-game description for combat rogues is:

"A swashbuckler who uses agility and guile to stand toe-to-toe with enemies."

Killing Spree's tool tip describes the ability's effect as:

"Step through the shadows to a visible enemy attacking 7 times ."

Stepping through the shadows for multiple assaults sounds a lot like an assassination rogue's theme, or especially a subtlety rogue's theme (Subtlety rogues were originally the only spec to have the Shadowstep ability).

5. Subtlety uses the stealth icon as the specialization icon. Subtlety is fine.

My simple suggestions:

1. Since assassination deals mainly with poisons and dagger attacks, assassination's specialization icon could be changed to the venomous wounds icon, the vendetta icon, the mutilate icon, or even the envenom icon. This would better reflect the end-game usage of spells, and correctly fit the specialization's theme.

2. Because evisceration is a focused on high damage, and the name suggests it fatally damages the opponent's intestinal tract, eviscerate's icon could more appropriately depict a bladed weapon (dagger/sword/etc) about to stab into a person's side, or stomach region (depending on artistic skill).

Another possibility would be to rename the ability Decapitate or Throat Slit (or anything else that deals with damage to a person's neck and/or spinal cord) and to leave the current icon as it is.

3. Since combat rogues are described as agile pirates that use guile to face-down their opponents, combat's specialization icon could be changed to that of Adrenaline Rush (possibly also having an eye-patch), that of Blade Flurry, or any other major combat specialization themed ability (other than Killing Spree, which will be discussed next).

4. Killing Spree. This ability is a lot like a more-time-consuming, damaging shadowstep, on a longer cooldown. This ability would fit nicely as an optional talent, probably in the same tier as shadowstep as a better version of the current Cloak and Dagger talent, with a few adjustments for balance, of course (imagine how this might balance out the widely used Burst of Speed).

Another talent tier it might do well in would be to replace the disappointment that is Shuriken Toss. Balanced accordingly, of course; perhaps incorporating Shuriken Toss' ranged auto attack bonus in after Killing Spree is finished, or instead generating 5 free combo points when Killing Spree finishes.

But what would combat get instead of their own personal Killing Spree? Perhaps giving Adrenaline Rush a shorter cooldown, or improving another damage cooldown/ability for the spec.

~~~~
Thank you for reading! Remember, these are just ideas. I do not main a rogue, I just really enjoy the idea of having a set theme and sticking to it (the reason why a warlock uses shadow spells, and a paladin uses holy spells). Constructive feedback is appreciated.

Comment by Kataclysia

My Thoughts on Rogues:

When I began playing WoW years ago I disliked Rogues and really did not understand them but over the years as I learned more about them and how to play them I have come to love Rogues. It is now my favorite class and I personally prefer subtlety to the other two specs. Rogues have so many advantages and even though they can be tricky to play at times, it is well worth the time to learn how to play this class.

I have come to love Rogues so much that as I return to WoW my new main character is a Rogue. I have tried all three specs but as I said I prefer the play of subtlety over the other two.

Comment by Destruct

Rogues are the funnest class, hands down! :-)

Comment by RosedaTheHunter

Here are a few quick tips on rogues

First of all work on your professions as they will come very useful.Rogues can't heal so do first aid.

Make sure to use all available abilities.Once you hit lvl 34 sprint and vanish as it will come very useful in pvp and pve

Be geared.

Thats all for now(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##Sas148##DELIM##

Comment by Goodwinn

Initial starting gear for rogues:

Human (View in 3D) Footpad's Vest Footpad's Pants Footpad's Shoes Worn Shortsword Worn Dirk	Dwarf (View in 3D) Footpad's Vest Footpad's Pants Footpad's Shoes Worn Mace Worn Dirk	Gnome (View in 3D) Footpad's Vest Footpad's Pants Footpad's Shoes Worn Shortsword Worn Dirk	Night Elf (View in 3D) Footpad's Vest Footpad's Pants Footpad's Shoes Worn Shortsword Worn Dirk
Worgen (View in 3D) Gilnean Footpad's Tunic Gilnean Adventurer's Shirt Gilnean Footpad's Gloves Gilnean Footpad's Pants Gilnean Footpad's Boots Worn Axe Worn Dirk	Pandaren (View in 3D) Trainee's Vest Trainee's Wristwraps Trainee's Cord Trainee's Leggings	Orc (View in 3D) Thug Vest Thug Pants Thug Boots Worn Axe Worn Dirk	Undead (View in 3D) Footpad's Vest Footpad's Pants Footpad's Shoes Worn Dagger Worn Dirk
Troll (View in 3D) Thug Vest Thug Pants Thug Boots Worn Dagger Worn Dirk	Blood Elf (View in 3D) Lookout's Vest Lookout's Pants Lookout's Shoes Recruit's Shortsword Sharp Dirk	Goblin (View in 3D) Goblin Thug's Tunic Goblin Thug's Pants Goblin Thug's Boots Worn Mace Worn Dirk

Comment by gbalkam

Ok so I haven't seen anyone say it, so I will. Subtlety rogues are just plain broken in PVP. First of all, Sub is not a PVE spec. Never was in the past, so boosting sub specs for raiding is just plain wrong. If you want to raid, spec combat or assassination which have better sustained dps. If you want to burst hard on a single target (such as a random patrol that is attacking the healer in pve) or recover a flag, you need sub. It isn't rocket science, even a retarded monkey could learn this, so why haven't blizzard developers?

I mean good god.. look at the set bonus on Conquest gear for rogues.... Primal Gladiator's Leather Tunic. 1 Real rogues don't 'feint'. I've never used feint, no reason to. AoE in pvp does very little damage. Why would i bother being worried about that? I'm more concerned with 40k obliterates coming off a dk than I am a 300 point aoe dot. Now this is for sub remember.. the set bonus for the other 2 specs is fine. Would be great for sub.. but the devs just said no SUB! I don't know what those clowns had in mind, if it was damage in raids wearing pvp gear or whatever... but it sure was a failed design idea.

I am sure I can speak for every subtly rogue every played... if we wanted sustained dmg we would have gone combat or assassination. Most rogues probably did as a 2nd spec. But for a main spec, sub is all about the burst and blizzard developers let us all down badly.

Now with reforging gone, it's like blizzard is saying.. we only want one spec with different names to make you think you have a choice. Multistrike? REALLY? Im sub.. i don't plan on standing there out of stealth long enough to proc multistrikes. Maybe if it was a guaranteed proc on openers, then yeah, ok.. fine. but it isn't. Sub rogues are a Hit n Git class. But now with the crap stats on pvp gear, the useless set bonus, the nerf to our burst abilities, we get stuck in the open like sitting ducks. At least if we could reforge, we would have some options other than blizzards saying... "This is how WE want you to play" Seriously.. I can play that game on Xbox and not have to pay a monthly fee for it!

As I see it, a major buff to our melee damage is owed to us, to compensate for the nerfing to our finishers. This would balance the dps loss from ambush and eviscerate, but also allow other classes to not get instantly 3 shotted by our openers.

Everyone who never played a rogue, says we are OP. The apparently don't look closely at death knights, mages, hunters, pallys, warriors, etc. I bet, if they brought our escape cool downs down to be in line with a mages blink and hunters disengage, non rogues would pitch a royal FIT! Imagine a rogue with a 20 second vanish! OH MY GOD!

To be quite honest, if they did that, and lowered the cd on CoS to 30 seconds, sub would be fixed. It would give us better survivability and the bursty feel we rolled sub for in the first place.

Lastly... I know many players play 2 specs. That is fine for them. They want to play 2 specs. Personally, my spec has always been sub. I don't see any reason that i should be forced to respec into another playstyle. I pay my monthly fee just like every other player. If they thing rogues are op.. then THEY can respec.

But.. my best advice to non rogues.. the ones in all the forums saying how OP we are and how we need to be nerfed more, is this.. LEARN TO PLAY YOUR CLASS and LEARN YOUR COUNTERS! Like.. priests.. Oh rogues are op.. my answer.. Yeah, if you let us ambush you 4 times, we are. If you use fear use a DOT! DUH! If you can't figure that out.. delete your character or dont play PVP!(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##hatman555##DELIM##

Comment by Spexlianok

Skilled in the art of Stealth, poisons(Wound Poison,Crippling Poison,Deadly Poison,Leeching Poison), Evasion, and Ambushing. Masters of the battleground, and ruthless combatants. You are Marked for Death when you see one, for they can Blindside opponents in the Blink of an eye. They also have a variety of stuns. They can also, surprisingly, be very good at ranged combat, with skills like Shuriken Toss\ Deadly Throw. They also have finishing moves, that consume combo points and deal a ton of damage or stun for a while, or buff/heal themselves. Finishing moves include Death from Above, Dispatch Slice and Dice,Kidney Shot, and Rupture.

TLDR:
Rogues are awesome and should not be underestimated. Also using links is fun.

Comment by Skymtes

Does anyone know if these weapons is made up or if they are in the game and if they are in the game, what is the name of them? http://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/177061.jpg

Since the link is removed, the rogue made by ArgentSun.

Comment by Ryawy

Don't hate, eviscerate!

Comment by Eido

All automatically learned Rogue glyphs by level:

Level 25: ,
Level 50:
Level 75: ,

source

Comment by newks1711

I am totally new to Wowhead, have just created an account. At first perusal the sight looks very professional and absolutely full of good advice which I know will assist me in my time in WOW. My favourite toon is the Rogue which I will shortly have 3 of, thank you for your help so far.

Mark

Comment by Boxofbeer

Each class in Legion has a long class hall quest chain — campaign. During that chain you'll raise your power and power of your class hall.
Rogue class hall campaign quests are under the spoiler.
.

10

11

13

21

23
24

30

31

34

39

49
50

Rogue class hall campaign
1	98	Call of The Uncrowned	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQi03LnZ3qM
2	98	The Final Shadow	Uncrowned Insignia	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTBs1SQh0PM
3	98	A Worthy Blade	Artifact Chosen	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVuiFm_eY1w
.
The Kingslayers quest chain
	98	Finishing the Job	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWRQ14Ujafs
	98	No Sanctuary	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0rxTK8fpds
	98	Codebreaker	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEGq10_lCU8
	98	Cloak and Dagger	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuAdDCF4qpg
	98	Preparation	https://youtu.be/TZUsY6UAIQg
	98	The Unseen Blade	The Kingslayers	https://youtu.be/sh-wqIQI91Y
.
The Dreadblades quest chain
	98	A Friendly Accord	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-ZFn3OqOr0
	98	The Dreadblades	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNMHDFTiAOs
.
Fangs of the Devourer quest chain
	98	The Shadows Reveal	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_snez58-K0
	98	A Matter of Finesse	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNGw5asX1yM
	98	Closing In	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfPa4LwuhK8
	98	Traitor!	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kyk6ofTak0
	98	Fangs of the Devourer	Fangs of the Devourer	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eUQXriPGNk
.
4	98	Honoring Success	https://youtu.be/tzkNsLQDqR8
5	98	Right Tools for the Job	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85-dYgtA8X4
6	98	Injection of Power	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G67XUn4j0o
7	101	Return to the Chamber of Shadows
8	101	Rise, Champions	300 x Order Resources Garona Halforcen Vanessa VanCleef	https://youtu.be/CN90ZPG-Jz8
9	101	A More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy	100 x Order Resources
101	The School of Roguery	100 x Order ResourcesGang of Bandits training
101	The Big Bad Wolfe
12	101	What Winstone Suggests	500 x Order Resources Glory of the Order
101	A Body of Evidence	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z61NIypDo4
14	101	Spy vs. Spy
15	103	The Bloody Truth	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx974IkR0S8
16	103	Mystery at Citrine Bay	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hEplPfduSU
17	103	Searching For Clues	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKqdOxAAlts
18	103	Time Flies When Yer Havin' Rum!	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvj3txvk-yE
19	103	Dark Secrets and Shady Deals	1000 x Order Resources Bandit Wanted Poster Glory of the Order	https://youtu.be/qFf4BAgKMl4
20	103	Champion: Lord Jorach Ravenholdt	Lord Jorach Ravenholdt
103	Convincin' Old Yancey	https://youtu.be/2sjSwdaJOK0
22	103	Fancy Lads and Buccaneers	Crew of Pirates training
103	Champion: Fleet Admiral Tethys	Fleet Admiral Tethys
103	Throwing SI:7 Off the Trail
25	103	Blood for the Wolfe	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DijclYZr-8c
26	110	Maw of Souls: Ancient Vrykul Legends	250 x Order Resources	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2g_CU6EJUs
27	110	The Raven's Eye	https://youtu.be/kGcZeeaqlPc
28	110	Off to Court	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNWMViE3JMk
29	110	A Sheath For Every Blade	Mask of the Uncrowned
110	Noggenfogger's Reasonable Request	5 x Draught of Raw Magic
110	Hitting the Books
32	110	A Particularly Potent Potion	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkngKGm5uD8
33	110	Champion: Marin Noggenfogger	Marin Noggenfogger
110	In Search of the Eye	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD3Ig3hiG9A
35	110	Eternal Unrest	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuuFHajX3PM
36	110	Black Rook Hold: Into Black Rook Hold	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeyduA4sQrk
37	110	Deciphering the Letter	1500 x Order Resources Wristbands of the Uncrowned Greater Glory of the Order	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFmcZpPTJIw
38	110	Champion: Valeera Sanguinar	Valeera Sanguinar
110	Where In the World is Mathias?
40	110	Pruning the Garden
41	110	The World is Not Enough
42	110	A Burning Distraction	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=053m67h-bXs
43	110	The Captive Spymaster	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd8S1FYYurg
44	110	Picking a Fight	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqNPOIGroDA
45	110	A Simple Plan
46	110	Under Cover of Darkness
47	110	The Imposter	5000 x Order Resources A Glorious Campaign Chestguard of the Uncrowned Greater Glory of the Order titleRelic to choose	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWJBU-LyOTU
48	110	Champion: Taoshi	Taoshi
110	Champion: Master Mathias Shaw	Master Mathias Shaw
110	One More Thing...
51	110	A Hero's Weapon	Heroic Weapons3rd relic slot

Comment by snakesorin

Best Duelist ever !

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Rogue

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Assassination Rogue Guide Melee DPS Overview - Tips and Specs Outlaw Rogue Guide Ravenholdt reputation guide Subtlety Rogue Guide Void Elf Allied Race Leveling Guide (20-120)

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