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Post by
Skreeran
Well, what I'm saying is: It's not going to be any different than it is now. Why weren't Thrall, Rhonin, Jaina, etc. fighting KT, C'thun, Yogg, Illidan, or Kil'jaeden?
The Guardian will be no different.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Well, I could see something along the line of were fighting Neptulon and some grand spell is going on in the back ground that we need Med'an to disrupt while we face off against the Elemental Lord of Water heh.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
The thing is, that would be a job for someone like Jaina (or Tirion in ICC and Maiev on Illidan). But the Guardian of Tirisfal would be way above that - his existance is simply because mortals can't do it by themselves, so the heroes (or in many cases, armies) are simply not necessary.
That is true.... except for the major thing about the Guardian and Council; they are suppose to be working in secret after all heh. They changed it a bit due to the comics but I can see us not seeing Med'an himself very often heh.
Post by
Rankkor
the whole existance of a new guardian is a real spit in the lore cemented by war3 :S medivh in the flesh said that the world would need no new guardians.
plus, the original job of a guardian was to act as a secret police agent for the world to kill any demon of the burning legion that was able to come to this world thanks to the mortals practicing magic.
that original job has been sidelined and it has become simply "Be a perfect mary sue, capable of wielding all schools of magic without the need of years of study, and start wooping the old gods and those who serve them"
(shrugs)
what's this game coming to? =( this is why I wanted that blizz continued the lore in Warcraft 4, and make their silly MMORPG based during the first and second wars.
there's plenty of content avaliable there, a huge alliance vs horde war, and lots of stuff to keep players busy, but keep the future of the lore in a stable location, such as a single-player campaign on a wonderfull RTS game.
anyhow, moving out of the QQ, basically on cataclysm the twilight hammer will be the equivalent of what the cult of the dammned was in WOTLK and what the shadow council and ilidari where in TBC?
furthermore, with azeroth being covered in ashes and fire, you think the 2 "snow" areas will have all their ice melted? (I'm talking about winterspring and dun morog)
and BTW, Skree, AWESOME repply on the question of why is garrosh not as respected as the rest of the heroes of the horde are :P simply nailed it bro'
that action figure of garrosh is how he's gonna look in cataclysm? my my, Fury warriors are gonna get nerfed so he went arms now xD, or maybe he finnaly realised that the mightiest warriors of the horde all use 1 weapon (hence arm warriors) because varok, draenosh, brox, grom, ogrim, thrall, nazgrel, all of them refuse to go all newbie and dual-wield.
from a tactical point of view dualwielding is unpractical, in real life how many times you see a swordsman using 2 swords? it's bloody hard to parry an enemy strike when you got both hands busy, is the same reason you don't see any real soldier or police oficer dualwielding guns or machieneguns (other than in movies) because it's impractical.
only those that wish to "show off" go arround dualwielding, and this is why I wish blizzard would bring back the 2hander shamans :( I dont' want to dualwield and yet I'm forced to, I Wish I could go 2hander on my foes (god knows a windfury from a 2hander HURTS LIKE HELL)
Post by
Adamsm
You know, I'm really looking forward to Darnassus come Cataclysm; Stormrage finally revealed why Fandral wanted the Morrowgrain, what the corruption to Teldrassil was about, and the whole Malfurion and Tyrande finally getting hitched I really can't wait to see how the city will change: To find out who the new Druid leader in city will be(as Fandral is off regaining his sanity), to see if they are going to change the quests in Teldrassil about researching the corruption, and if they are going to change Tyrande's model heh.
Post by
Monday
You know, I'm really looking forward to Darnassus come Cataclysm; Stormrage finally revealed why Fandral wanted the Morrowgrain, what the corruption to Teldrassil was about, and the whole Malfurion and Tyrande finally getting hitched I really can't wait to see how the city will change: To find out who the new Druid leader in city will be(as Fandral is off regaining his sanity), to see if they are going to change the quests in Teldrassil about researching the corruption, and if they are going to change Tyrande's model heh.
I think they might just have Malfurion take over for Druid Leader.
Unless they bring in Broll, though I don't know much lore about him so...
Post by
Adamsm
They said Broll finally came into his full powers in the book... but I don't know if they'll make him the leader or not heh... probably not as he has a Blood Elf 'daughter', Valeera.
Post by
Rankkor
They said Broll finally came into his full powers in the book... but I don't know if they'll make him the leader or not heh... probably not as he has a Blood Elf 'daughter', Valeera.
that would be more like a blood elf surrogate daugther but yhea I see your point-.
Post by
Rankkor
well, I just got the battered hilt last night at an extremely lucky pug in FoS, and after some consideration, decided to give it to my DK (it's a waste to use it on my shaman, as the weapon itself is easily replaced in Icecrown, and in my shaman I won't get the legendary quel'delar, but a rather nameless mace, on my DK however, I will get the blade and even after finding an upgrade, that sword will remain in my inventory as a nice souvenir)
what struck me the most though, is that the quest has some slight changes when done as a blood-elf (I did the whole quest in the PTR but on my orc shaman) and well....... the sunwell portion was significantly more pleasant to do as a blood-elf.
but there's another change I didn't saw in the PTR, and when I saw it here, it made me smile proudly.
see for yourselves.
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7853/wowscrnshot021510220554.jpg
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/4425/wowscrnshot021510220559.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6721/wowscrnshot021510220606.jpg
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/517/wowscrnshot021510220615.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/4376/wowscrnshot021510220624.jpg
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2161/wowscrnshot021510220648.jpg
It's an inspiring and passionated speech that the very same Lady Liandrin, Matriarch of the Blood-knights gives to all blood-elves AND HIGH-ELVES in the zone.
yup, high and blood elves on this particular sacred soil placed aside their diferences and all gaze in awe their beloved sunwell.
this leads me to believe that blood-elves both at the individual level as well as a society are changing and these changes BETTER be reflected in cataclysm, I'll be VERY disapointed with blizzard if they do not move the story arc of the sunwell foward in cata, "old" quel'danas and "old" sunwell raid must be removed from the game in cata and this extremely important plot point must be developed.
it's a ray of hope that if a society as dark and as corrupt as the blood-elves could find such redemption, then nobody is really behond being redeemed. Unlike some individuals have said, I do believe change is posible.
this however led me to reflect a lot about high-elves.
They are really traitors to their own kind.
Ok, I get the fact that they saw their own kin sucumbing to demonic corruption, becoming all evil and the like, and as such I can understand that they split from their blood-elven brethren, and even hold an intense hatred towards them but......... their kin has already redeemed themselves, they have rejected their demonic embrace, even the kirin tor accepted blood-elves as part of their ranks and a blood-elven arch mage is part of THE VERY SAME COUNCIL OF SIX.
these should had been enough arguments to make the high-elves come to their sences and stop acting agaist their fellow brothers and sisters.
because the same thing happened to the orcs, originally all orcs where brown, when the vast majority of the orcs succumbed to the demonic pact, a small group of orcs severed all ties to their kin, and chose to remain secluded in outland. acting hostile and unfriendly to other orcs who did become corrupted.
however, as soon as the orcs redeemed themselves, as soon as they cleansed themselves of the demonic taint, they returned to their land of origin, and their kin upon seeing their brothers and sisters finnaly recovered, eagerly welcomed them, and joined them as members of the horde.
is this the case of the elves? nope.
instead, blood-elves became corrupted, started following Illidan, and the mad-prince kael'tas, started feeding on demonic energy, embraced their adiction to magic and began siphoning all creatures that had mana on them (becoming mana-vampires) and well, you get the picture.
the high-elves decided not to partake on the downfall of these people whom they saw as adicts and as sick who needed to overcome their hunger rather than sucumb to it.
however, the blood-elves did overcame it, they reclaimed their land, they rebuilt their towns, they reignited their sunwell, they abandoned kael'thas and his mad plans, turned their back on their dark heritage, and are now strugling to free themselves of their inner shackles.
what did the high-elves did? still remain hostile to their brothers, prefering to be exiles to their own land, boot-licking the feet of the very same faction who not only abandoned them during the downfall of silvermoon, then atempted to destroy them by using them as meat-shields against the scourge, then imprisoned them all in the violet hold as animals, then atempted to mass-genocide them, and then did NOTHING to even try to help them reclaim silvermoon.
honest-to-god I don't know what the hell is wrong with these high-elves, that they prefer to be away from their land, and the sunwell, to maintain old alegiances that completely left them to die in the third war (not a single aid was sent to help silvermoon, and once it fell, not a single aid was sent to reclaim and rebuild it)
are they really that resentfull towards the horde, that they prefer to be part of the alliance?
Post by
Morec0
What do you think will happen to the Scarlet Crusade/Ounslaught in Cata? Will they go psycho on Deathwing - or possibly be controlled by him - or do you think they'll just keep trying to kill the new Lich King?
Post by
denjerre
Didn't we decimate them?
Post by
Adamsm
what did the high-elves did? still remain hostile to their brothers, prefering to be exiles to their own land, boot-licking the feet of the very same faction who not only abandoned them during the downfall of silvermoon, then atempted to destroy them by using them as meat-shields against the scourge, then imprisoned them all in the violet hold as animals, then atempted to mass-genocide them, and then did NOTHING to even try to help them reclaim silvermoon.
honest-to-god I don't know what the hell is wrong with these high-elves, that they prefer to be away from their land, and the sunwell, to maintain old alegiances that completely left them to die in the third war (not a single aid was sent to help silvermoon, and once it fell, not a single aid was sent to reclaim and rebuild it)
are they really that resentfull towards the horde, that they prefer to be part of the alliance?The Blood Elves gave all High Elves a choice; either start feeding on Demon energies or get the hell out of their homelands. It's a two way street Rank, and while the Blood might be on a path to 'redemption' the elf races over all have long memories and the High won't forget something like that. There were only about 20k High elves to the 90k Blood who surfaced after the Third War; yes, some High Elves did go home and let their Hunger win, but not all, and there are those who prefer to remain in the Alliance(there allies for 4 thousand years) then join up with the Horde, who, it's possible they still see as the same groups who attacked their lands during the 2nd War.
What do you think will happen to the Scarlet Crusade/Ounslaught in Cata? Will they go psycho on Deathwing - or possibly be controlled by him - or do you think they'll just keep trying to kill the new Lich King?
It's destroyed; any remnants joined the Argent Crusade after the corruption in there ranks were revealed.
Post by
Rankkor
yhea addams, I get why they left, what I don't get is why they haven't returned.
I placed the example of the mag'har, they too are like the high-elves, when their kin decended down a dark path, they chose exile, and seclution.
the most important diference is that when the darkess of the orcs lifted, the mag'har recognized this and forgave their kin joining them.
the high-elves did not.
if as you say the elves do not forget easily, then why did they go so easy on the alliance, who
1: sent no reinforcements to silvermoon whatsoever.
2: after the fall of silvermoon used elves as meat-shields against the scourge.
3: imprisoned and later tried to genocide them.
4: made no effort whatsoever to try and help them reclaim and rebuild silvermoon.
aparently they are too proud and stuck up to not forgive their blood-elven brothers due to their actions, but are quite fast and eager to forgive an alliance that on the time they needed the most, abandoned them.
THAT is the piece that doesn't fit.
and as for the scarlets.........
the scarlet crusade was completely utterly and absolutely decimated, on the DK starting quest every single soldier on heartglenn and tirisfal marched to the scarlet enclave, and were butchered by the scourge...... no survivors at all......... and this includes the forces already stationed in new avalon and tyr's hand.
the few who fled before the battle renamed themselves as scarlet onslaught, but as soon as they stablished themselves in new heartglenn in dragonblight, the forsaken led by the hand of vengeance saw to it that all it's leaders as well as their members died.
still, westwind took the most elite faithfull mightiest cadre of them and fled to icecrown, to the onslaugth harbor, where they ultimately destroyed by the knights of the ebon blade.
that order is dead, as dead as it can be, pretty much all of the leadership is down, and as the saying goes "cut the head of the snake........"
Post by
Adamsm
if as you say the elves do not forget easily, then why did they go so easy on the alliance, who
1: sent no reinforcements to silvermoon whatsoever.
2: after the fall of silvermoon used elves as meat-shields against the scourge.
3: imprisoned and later tried to genocide them.
4: made no effort whatsoever to try and help them reclaim and rebuild silvermoon.
aparently they are too proud and stuck up to not forgive their blood-elven brothers due to their actions, but are quite fast and eager to forgive an alliance that on the time they needed the most, abandoned them.
THAT is the piece that doesn't fit.Well 2 and 3 happened to the Blood Elves heh. They might have been able to tell the difference between the Scourge and the actual Army of Lordaeron. 4 well... the Blood Elves did that Rank, and the High Elves weren't willing to give themselves up to the Hunger just so they could go back home......
Would the Mag'har have rejoined the Horde if it had been mandatory for all orcs to drink Demon Blood?(it works because that's what the Blood Elves were forcing on their High Elf cousins).
You can't compare the Elves to the Orcs; the Orcs were tricked into their Demon taint, the Blood Elves took it willing at the orders of their Prince. If you want to make a better analog; the High Elves are like the Darkspear trolls(which they would hate); they stick by their Allies through thick and thin, but they were forced out of their homeland by their stronger and more powerful brethren.
Post by
Rankkor
Well 2 and 3 happened to the Blood Elves heh.
let's not forget please that at the time, there was no distiction between blood-elf and high-elf other than name, they weren't feeding on demon magic at that time, they were simply by all definition "white-elves with blue-eyes" (OMG YU-GI-OH REFERENCE)
so, when the alliance royaly screwed the blood-elves, they did so to the entire elven population, they didn't started to feed on demons untill AFTER the blood-elves were betrated and they cut their ties to the alliance. and that's when they got their green eyes, and the split happened, some left some remained.
the Blood Elves did that Rank, and the High Elves weren't willing to give themselves up to the Hunger just so they could go back home......
again, this was TBC lore u're talking about, I'm talking about WOTLK lore, blood-elves no longer force anyone to feed on demon magic, that's what the sunwell is for, to sate their thirst without sucumbing to darkness, even more so than before because this new sunwell has been blessed by the naaru, so it's actually light they are feeding on now.
and seeing as high-elves are willing to make pilgrimages to the sunwell to feed, why not simply rejoin their brothers? why that hate? they could so easy forgive the alliance but not their own flesh and blood?
Would the Mag'har have rejoined the Horde if it had been mandatory for all orcs to drink Demon Blood?(it works because that's what the Blood Elves were forcing on their High Elf cousins).
again, wrong analogy.
its understandable that the high-elves didn't rejoined their brothers due to the whole demon corruption, but as of today (as in WOTLK days) blood-elves NO LONGER feed on demons, nor would they forcefully make anyone feed on demons for that matter.
their corruption is over (they still have remnants of fel energy drawbacks that they must fight, but for all intents and purpuses they no longer sustain themselves with fel magic, they use the sunwell for that.
the mag'har woudn't had rejoined the horde if the orcs would had forced them to drink demon blood........ but the orcs didn't forced them, they no longer drink demon blood, those days are over.......
the high-elves woudn't rejoin their kin if they had forced them to feed on fel energy........ but the blood elves no longer do that, they don't feed on fel magic, they feed on the sunwell...... those days are over.........
that example you gave was horrible, because when the orcs made contact with the mag'har their corruption was over, they no longer forced anyone to drink demon blood.
same goes for the blood-elves, they no longer force anyone to feed on demon magic.
You can't compare the Elves to the Orcs; the Orcs were tricked into their Demon taint, the Blood Elves took it willing at the orders of their Prince.
o_O
dude, the orcs where tricked by ner'zul and gul'dan, who in turn where tricked by kil'jaeden, and yhea under orders of ner'zul all clan chieftains were offered a choise to either drink or GTFO, some drank, some left........
the elves were tricked by their mad prince, who in turn was triked first by Illidan and later by Kil'jaeden, so yhea under orders of Kael'thas, all elves were offered a choise, either feed on fel magic or GTFO, some fed, some left........
by that same way of thinking, the mag'har rejoined because they saw their kin no longer corrupted.
if the blood-elves are no longer corrupted nor do they force corruption upon others then why-o-why do the high-elves are so stuck up?
Post by
Adamsm
Rank, as soon as the Third War ended, the Blood Elves began; Kael named them the Sin'dori in honour of those who fell. Then, for 6-8 years(Frozen Throne is sketchy on that front), all Blood Elves fed on Demon energies and did there best to
Corrupt
the High Elves into giving themselves up to the Hunger and join them. The High Elves withdrew and remained loyal to the Alliance, even with a certain Lordaeron commander attempting to kill all of their 'cousins', and remained steadfast to the ideals they believed that helped to form the Grand Alliance originally.
You can't compare the Elves to the Orcs, it doesn't work: Hell, there are still Night Elves who look down on the High elves in the Alliance for things they have nothing to do with(aka the War of the Ancients and the Highborne), and the NE will do anything possible to keep the High Elves away from the Moonwell's even though the Sunwell is restored.
And Rank, the Sunwell has only be active for a Year at most; do you really expect 6-8 years of bad blood to just vanish over night? There are still members of the Horde who hate the Alliance, Trolls who hate the Elves, Orcs who Humans, Humans who hate Orcs and so on and so on....... so yeah, it's to be expected that the High Elves won't go back to their 'cousins' as the memory is still fresh to them, and they might not believe they have been redeemed.
Even the Mag'har were wary when the New Horde came to Outland and made contact; without Thrall and the Greatmother, probably the Mag'har would have said 'Hell no, get the hell out you Green-skinned savages, you'll ruin us again'.
You can't just make history disappear after all.
Post by
Rankkor
Rank, as soon as the Third War ended, the Blood Elves began; Kael named them the Sin'dori in honour of those who fell
as soon as the third war ended the blood-elves began, however, the fel-magic feeding didn't started untill garithos atempted to murder the elves.
how did the elves started feeding on demons in the first place? because Illidan offered Kael "another way".
elves didn't allied with Illidan untill the alliance screwed them over.
BEFORE garitos betrayed the elves, there was no diference whatsoever between a high-elf and a blood-elf, (other than name and the fact that one side dresses in blue, and the other in red)
so, when garitos ordered the execution of the blood-elves, why-o-why didnt the high-elves felt ofended by that? at that point in history the belfs weren't corrupt, they were just a band of idealists who hoped to reclaim their land.
And Rank, the Sunwell has only be active for a Year at most; do you really expect 6-8 years of bad blood to just vanish over night?
yhea when it's your own kin........
remember that the mag'har had a huge grudge against the corrupt orcs, but when the new horde showed up, they pretty much forgave 50 years of bad blood and embraced their once lost brothers.
There are still members of the Horde who hate the Alliance, Trolls who hate the Elves, Orcs who Humans, Humans who hate Orcs and so on and so on.......
hating outsiders is one thing, hating your own blood is another....... because say what you will, but blood-elves never did anything drastic to the high-elves, they did let them choose after all.
there are others who have done FAR WORST to high-elves and the highelves forgave, so why not their kin?
Post by
Adamsm
there are others who have done FAR WORST to high-elves and the highelves forgave, so why not their kin?Because there kin attempted to damn them; alright think of it this way: It's been almost 11 thousand years so why aren't the Night Elves and High Elves bosom buddies? Because neither side is willing to let the past go, and accept that they are different. That's not how the Elves of Warcraft work; and Rank.... The Blood Elves haven't tried either; hell, the Horde Hilt quest has you Killing a High Elf just as the Alliance one has you killing a Blood Elf.
Right now, the main leader of the High Elves is Vereesa Windrunner, and over the last 3 decades she's seen one sister vanish, another one die and become a threat to most of the living races on Azeroth, and seen her own kind descend to madness and civil war among themselves; I don't blame her in the least for her stance. It's just the way it is in Warcraft.
Edit: Actually looked at your screen's better.... and Liandra is only calling on unification
Now
.... so what before this point she was fine with the Sunreaver vs Silver Covenant fights and the rest heh?
Also:
Assault on the Ruby Sanctum
so much for the Lich King being the last raid lol.
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