This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Druids are lesser end game raiding tanks TBC!
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Sakkura
Even if u have 100% chance to avoid crushing blow druids would still take less damage. 2 blocked attacks is more than 1 crushing. Although warriors do take crushing.
Warriors only very rarely take crushing blows; to my knowledge, paladins never take crushing blows (if they are doing things right).
You also forget the gap in pure avoidance, where warriors beat druids hands down. Yes, your dodge is humongous, but your miss chance is lower and your parry is ehm... Well paws are too soft for it apparently. Then there's defensive stance, which reduces all damage by 10% (spelldamage by 12/14/16% if talented), rendering the difference between armor minimal.
And then there's WotLK, where crushing blows are gone and druids dont get bonus armor leather items anymore.
Things are pretty balanced. Most successful guilds have preferred warriors MTs throughout TBC, but a druid MT is doable on all but a few bosses. A lot of guilds that run with warrior MTs do, however, sometimes swap in a druid tank for certain encounters, as circumstances warrant.
Things will be even more balanced in WotLK, because Blizzard have abandoned the "warrior = raid MT, druid = raid OT, paladin = AoE tank" policy in favor of near-total equalization of tanks.
Post by
223403
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sakkura
In ur dreams maybe, look at heals/dps opinions
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=55161F1E16A1A1DCED508A7C4FEE8869.app11_08?topicId=9023682693&sid=1
I as a healer thought warriors were good at tanking, but when ppl mention about druids having high amount of dodge we tried one, we liked him a lot more. Crushing doesn't mean matter ne more. Druids can top 75-80% dodge. Since ur a warrior, ur opinion wont be as important as healers/dps since ur biased
My guild has a priest raid leader, and guild leadership is made up of a few DPSers and healers. We mainly use warriors as MTs, but swap to druids here and there. We use a paladin sometimes, obviously when we go MH as well as on RoS p3 when one of our paladins feels like being prot instead of ret.
So I fail to see how that decision is biased in favor of warriors. I also fail to see how the majority of successful raid guilds would be biased in favor of warriors. If some guilds were biased, and others were unbiased, the unbiased ones would get an advantage and be more successful. This hasn't happened.
As for 80% dodge, that figure isn't realistic except with t6+ gear, and then you run into sunwell radiance rendering such gear decisions useless.
And hey, since rogues can reach 100% avoidance and tank up to illidan, they would be preferred tanks if people went by your logic.
Post by
Sakkura
Even defensive stance still puts warriors behind in armor reduction. We dont even need parry. Dodge is everything. And like i said crushing blows dont even matter, blocking 2 attacks u still take huge amount of damage. Druid's dodge>warrior's parry+dodge. Plus pallies r better for illidan ne ways do to 8 charges
Endgame feral druids have 75% damage reduction via armor, so they obviously take 25% of any damaging hit. Endgame warriors typically have about 65% damage reduction via armor, so they would take 35% of any damaging hit if they were in battle stance. But they are in defensive stance, so that 35% is reduced by 10%, putting them at 31.5%. Then block comes in and shaves several hundred damage off the top, leaving a fairly similar hit (though slightly higher than the average hit on a druid). And yes, pretty much everything that hits a warrior gets blocked.
In addition to the above, druids will take 15% crushing blows, which increases the damage of those hits by 50%. Factoring damage reduction, they end up taking 37.5% damage from those blows.
In the big picture, these differences pretty much even out. Druids and warriors take very similar amounts of damage and are fairly similarly healable on most bosses. Some places give druids a benefit, some give warriors a benefit, and a few simply require a warrior (or a paladin).
Warrior's miss + parry + dodge > druid's dodge + miss
Warriors have a lot more defense, and thus their miss chance is higher. Total avoidance usually ends up in favor of the warrior, assuming similar gear. However, neither gains anything by stacking insane amounts of avoidance; until tier 6 content, EH gearing is preferable, and when you get to sunwell the benefits of stacking avoidance are negated by sunwell radiance.
Paladins are not better for illidan, shear can be fully negated by timed shield block. You can save shield block for the shear since illidan doesn't do crushing blows. Ironically, this would make him a nice boss for druids to tank if it wasn't for the shear (and, hey presto, that is being removed next week).
Post by
223403
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
223403
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sakkura
U say blizzard intended warrior "MT" prove it
Alright, who better to ask than Blizzard themselves. In this case, a ghostcrawler quote should do nicely:
We're not done with Ferals. The builds you get are often a week or more behind ours, and that assumes that a designer actually went in and made changes. It's impossible for us to balance the threat and mitigation of the 4 tanking classes until we can take a look at the level 80 characters, wearing raid-level gear, and fighting a raid-level encounter. None of that content is done yet.
I said above that I think the old design of "You can't ever be a MT, but you get to be a terrific OT" feels dated.
But in order to be a MT as good as a paladin or warrior, you can't also dps as well as a Fury warrior with the same spec. I don't think anyone is asking for that, but realistically the only way to address is it with talents. (And before someone asks, if you like the OT role, you can still do that too.)
Post by
Sakkura
But warriors have hard time on archimonde/brutallus and other hard hitting bosses.
Lol, and druids dont? "Hai I are bare tank, I cen runz in teh fiar."
Fact is warriors are used more often as MTs than the other two classes. That doesnt mean the other two are useless or "lesser endgame tanks", it just means that the three are fairly closely matched with the warrior having a bit extra in terms of panic buttons and such, and then people out of old habit or whatever choose the warrior to MT. Even in WotLK it wouldnt surprise me if a very large share of the MT spots get filled by warriors just because so many people who wanted to be MT and had the skills for it rolled a warrior back when that was the only viable way to go.
Post by
223403
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
223403
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sakkura
Is that why nearly every guild have warrior sit there and dps? Blocks doesn't nearly nothing on these bosses.
Proof please.
PS: berserker rage does do something on that boss.
Post by
223403
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sakkura
hes just quoting something that u guys constantly say, without prove. Also he mention that sunwell radiance was meant for druids mainly, but they still are the prefer tank in it.
No, he is saying there and elsewhere that the design during TBC had mainly been for druids to be great OTs and not necessarily great MTs. This due to their ability to swap between tanking and DPS midfight as well as provide battle rez and innervates.
And that design philosophy is changed for WotLK, so that all four tank classes should be equally viable MTs.
The bit where he said druids were doing better than warriors was referring to in the beta, where druids originally were quite meh, then got buffed so much that they outshone the other tanks, and then got nerfed. It's a beta, such fluctuations are bound to happen as they work towards a balance between the classes. Their stated goal is for all four tank classes to be equally viable MTs come WotLK launch, and I think we should reserve judgement on that until they are actually done.
Post by
Sakkura
This entire thread is prove. u say most ppl prefer warriors, but why do most of these guys prefer druids. This thread has been view about 2700 times
Anecdotal evidance is not proof, sorry. Come back after you do a fact-check on how cutting-edge guilds like Nihilum did things, you may have learned a few things by then (especially about leatherworking and shamans, but that's a different story...)
Post by
223403
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
223403
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
223403
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sakkura
Sorry nihilum isn't even number one guild any more, If u say that most guilds prefer warriors then prove it? oh yea forums dont say so? why?
Blizzard says they were designed to be a more suitable MT during TBC, and I'm afraid that's a lot more authoritative than some random posters' opinions. Heck, I doubt even 1% of all WoW players have even posted on this site ever, much less in one single thread. Same goes for that thread you linked from the Blizzard forums.
Nihilum got world first kill on Eredar twins, and IIRC world third on KJ himself. Still a pretty good record, on top of taking first kills from chtun over kel'thuzad to illidan. But fine, look up who SK gaming used as MT for all I care.
Post by
223403
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
tacorocksman
To all the druids that think they can mt BETTER than warriors on MOST end game raids, I'm here to tell you that you are wrong. Warriors can simply do it better. Now I am not saying I like this idea, I hate it. Being a feral druid and getting the shaft when it comes to main tanking sucks. Maybe I suck at tanking is why I don't get to main tank? No, you don't run heroics in 30 minutes and suck at tanking, I'm sorry (I don't just run heroics, lol). Very glad Blizzard is changing it, but Parrazell (I'm sure a lot of other feral druids new to end game) thinks in TBC he is a better choice than a warrior would be to get through end game raiding. Please bash me if you think I'm wrong or back me up if you think I'm right. Warriors are better at main tanking end game raids than druids are. Thanks for the input if you have any and don't take offense^^.
what i heard hear Druids suck at MT Warrior are the best MT what about pallys and i have been in alot of groups with druids as main tanks they are good at it. also what about druid OT
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.