Blizzard on Guild Reputation: Is the cap acceptable?
17/1/2011 em 15:08
There was a semi-heated discussion going on (which has since magically disappeared) on the official forums regarding the concept and mechanics behind guild reputation. As many of you already know, guild reputation can be earned by completing various tasks, such as completing a dungeon or boss kill in a guild group, or by turning in quests. Guild reputation is required for certain rewards earned via guild leveling. The current guild reputation cap is 3500 (adjusted to 3675 and 3850 via the
For many players, this simply isn't enough. Others are disappointed in the lack of options for which to actually gain the reputation - and I have to say I agree with them there. I've been the guild master of my own guild for well over a year now and despite being one of the most active players and participating in basically everything that we do, I have lower guild reputation to than my guildies thanks to a reputation bug that Blizzard refused to admit existed. I gain reputation for completing seemingly random quests and occasionally whenever we kill a boss, though I agree that I'd much rather see reputation awarded for doing things that actually benefit the guild. I wish I could do something for my guys who are regularly taking the time out of their own schedules to farm trade materials for the guild bank, or who constantly help other players by providing free enchants and other such things. Wouldn't it be cool if guild leaders had a reserve of guild reputation that they could hand out to individuals? I found it rather hilarious that the only presented reasoning behind not awarding reputation for such tasks is that it would turn earning guild reputation into a "fun farming game" - news flash! For quite a few of us, WoW's already a farming game. Have you
flask requirements (thankfully they're getting changed). Besides, since when has earning reputation
been a farm?
Blizzard posted Bashiok has taken the reins of the appropriately titled "Guild Rep is 100% Stupid." thread and offers insight on the decisions behind sources of guild reputation and its weekly cap. How do you guys feel about guild reputation? Anyone else find it as underwhelming as I do, and the cap and seemingly arbitrary means for gain relatively frustrating? Read on for the full posts and tell us what you think!
Thank you, Blizz. I thoroughly enjoy your design of using an arbitrary number to dictate what I can and cannot have in a guild I have been for months. It makes absolutely no sense that the only way to build my rep up with a guild is to go around farming quests/dailies. that are 100% worthless for me outside of building my guild rep. That is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever seen implemented in wow currently. It's understandable you didn't want people to join a guild and instantly obtain all the associated perks of that guild, and if that is the case, then the perks should have been based on time spent as a guild member. Not time spent doing dumb, absolutely useless quests.
For those of you who are going to bring up Arenas, Rated Bgs, etc. No. I have done countless Tol Barads, countless arenas in both 2s and 3s, and countless bgs and at least 15 dungeons/heroics and I'm 1700 through neutral. There is absolutely no excuse for such an abysmal rep gain. We are a PvP guild. We shouldn't have to be PvEing, and pointless PvE at that, so we can enjoy guild perks. Period.
100%!? That's like... all percent.
Well, I think this is a valid complaint being that there's an initial buy-in period where you're kind of wondering why you have to level up reputation with a guild you've been in for a year, but that's sort of the nature of implementing new features like this.
You are correct in that we do not want people to join guilds, be able to immediately buy rewards that the guild unlocked, and jet. Your idea of unlocking rewards based on time spent in the guild instead of contribution isn't quite right either.
Guild rep exists to gate rewards based on someone's actual contributions to their guild, not just being some dope on the roster. Jumping in to guild dungeon and raid runs (with 80% members, until 4.0.6 which drops 5 person dungeons to variable gains based on 3/5, 4/5, and 5/5), winning rated bg's, or earning guild achievements, all help earn guild rep. And yes, so do quests, should you find yourself doing them.
The point is not to force you to do things you do not want to do, but instead be rewarded for participating in activities with your guild. And it uses criteria that ideally keep it from getting too 'gamey'. We could probably say if you make a flask, give it to a guild mate, and they drink it, you get some guild rep. And then that type of action turns into a fun farming game that has nothing to do with actually encouraging guild interaction. The criteria we've set are hopefully those that are both beneficial to the guild and its members, as well as avoiding making grindy actions the best way to get rep.
As far as making it account wide, I'm not a designer, but that definitely hinders, again, the guild participation factor. Once you have guild rep set on one character, and if that then applied account wide, your desire to contribute to guild content that isn't pushing gearing your character drops substantially. However, if you have an alt that's 80, yeah you probably will want to join in on that Blackrock Caverns run being put together. Otherwise you're a jaded 85 guildie who has variable interest in actually helping someone else out (Yes, yes, I'm sure you're the most selfless and helpful person in your guild, but that scenario is too often the rule and not the exception).
As I said initially this can be a weird start conceptually, but while contributing with guild members you're gaining rep, and you'll get access to those rewards from then on. As this is still a fairly new and fairly big and complex system we're watching it very closely, and fully intend to keep adding to it and improving upon it. Your constructive feedback is welcome.
I was wondering, shouldn't the "Guild Master" be exalted?
So you can sit back and let everyone else level the guild and unlock rewards for you? Conceptually it makes sense, you're the guild master! But aside from that notion of what 'makes sense', it would feel really crappy to the other people in the guild.
The point is not to force you to do things you do not want to do, but instead be rewarded for participating in activities with your guild. And it uses criteria that ideally keep it from getting too 'gamey'. We could probably say if you make a flask, give it to a guild mate, and they drink it, you get some guild rep. And then that type of action turns into a fun farming game that has nothing to do with actually encouraging guild interaction.
how do random dailies or fishing quests have anything to do with guild interaction?
Not a whole lot directly, but it is a way for the super low pop guilds or very inactive guilds, and their members, to rep up. Say your guild has 10 people and of those 10 people a couple log in maybe once a week, we want there to be some way that you'll eventually level your guild, and in addition, be able to rep up and purchase rewards. It's going to be slower, for sure, but it's there.
Bashiok... I think this logic is somewhat flawed to be honest. Most people would not stay in guild where the GM sits back and lets the rest of the guild do things for him. The reason my guild exists is because of our desire to see the guild run the way we all collectively thought was right... so we left the guild we were in and started this one.
I would argue that most would stay as long as the guild was otherwise functioning to their satisfaction. I'm glad your guild was built and formed around a group mantra and you're close, that's awesome, but you have to understand that is not the case for all guilds.
As for your previous comment regarding flasks etc. I think I can see who contributes to the guild on a larger scale as well via the use of the Guild Bank. Isn't helping the guild aquire the mats and items that help us all do things a valid part of contributing to a guild?
Sure, but again, that can be gamed. Making guild rep a meta game of depositing mats, to remove them, launder them, and re-deposit to exalted is not the point of the system. And while it would be cool to recognize those things, there's simply too many loopholes.
I have guild members who tirelessly make new epics for our members and give them those items for NOTHING. Crafter items that they had to get the Chaos orbs for while we were running Heroics. Yet I can not offer those players any increased Rep within the guild?
No, but, you can give back in other ways.
That does bring up an interesting idea of gifting someone rep who helped you out. An 85 jumps in to help you in a normal dungeon and you want to toss some rep his way for helping. Mmmm... I'm not sure how it could work and not just be a back scratcher, but it sounds cool.
So if this is the case, and you want people that contribute to gain the rewards, why is there an arbitrary weekly cap on how much reputation you can earn?
This seems like it's nothing more than another rep. grind designed to take as long as possible while keeping players chained down.
Something isn't arbitrary just because you don't understand it. Let's be a little more open minded here.
The weekly cap helps pace people so they aren't encouraged to do the most menial tasks to grind the rep 24/7, but instead, ideally, cap their rep while doing their normal weekly guild runs or PvP bouts.
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