Este site faz uso extensivo de JavaScript.
Favor habilite JavaScript em seu navegador.
No ar
RTP
10.2.7
RTP
10.2.6
Beta
News Articles
Resposta da Mensagem
Retornar ao índice do fórum
Postado por
557473
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Postado por
Adamsm
Well if that goes through, gonna be a lot more people heading to Mexico or Canada to get an abortion...
I would have thought going overseas to commit a crime would be considered criminal in some way? I mean, I don't think you could reasonably take someone over international waters, shoot them, come back, and justify how you didn't break any laws. I'm sure there are laws surrounding that.
If you don't tell anyone that you are pregnant and you go over the border to a country where it's legal....what laws are you breaking? I'm being completely serious here: As far as any friends or family would know, you are just taking a trip. Also, a lot of Americans go over the border into Mexico for operations that would be considered illegal in the US(you'd be surprised by the thriving plastic surgery trade that is down there); if they put through an entire country wide ban on abortions(which really, will never go through no matter who's in the White House), people will still find ways to do it.
Hell, the same thing happened with gay marriage: Couples from the States would go to Canada and get married; certain areas of the States may not recognize them as being 'legal' but that wasn't important to the couples themselves who wanted to be married.
Postado por
Monday
Well if that goes through, gonna be a lot more people heading to Mexico or Canada to get an abortion...
I would have thought going overseas to commit a crime would be considered criminal in some way? I mean, I don't think you could reasonably take someone over international waters, shoot them, come back, and justify how you didn't break any laws. I'm sure there are laws surrounding that.
I doubt that. Most likely that if cross the border, you obey laws of the country you go,
rather than home rules
, especially for such things like abortion.
There are laws against doing acts considered criminal in the U.S. while in another country.
Postado por
Adamsm
Again: Who is going to tell the government or even their family what they are planning....though really, considering how abortion was treated in the States during the early part of the century, where young girls would 'go away' for a while to deal with 'certain problems'....and some would be back before the normal 9 months would be up.....
Postado por
557473
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Postado por
Monday
Are there rules allowing me to do something that legal in my country, but illegal in US?
If you're a citizen of the U.S, no. If you aren't, then it's not like they have jurisdiction over you anyways.
Postado por
Ksero
Are there rules allowing me to do something that legal in my country, but illegal in US?
If you're a citizen of the U.S, no. If you aren't, then it's not like they have jurisdiction over you anyways.
What about Assange, and Kim Dotcom. neither were US citizens, but Assange is wanted for treason, and kim dotcom had all of his assets frozen by the US government.
Postado por
Squishalot
Again: Who is going to tell the government or even their family what they are planning....though really, considering how abortion was treated in the States during the early part of the century, where young girls would 'go away' for a while to deal with 'certain problems'....and some would be back before the normal 9 months would be up.....
The detection/enforcement and the legality of the situation aren't related. Who is going to tell the government that you're taking cocaine? That doesn't make it any more legal.
Postado por
Adamsm
Alright, so let's go with the hypothetical here: Woman get's pregnant(circumstances not important), is in the US which has had a ban on abortion, goes to Canada, has the abortion and goes home. Someone finds out about...now what? Do you charge her with murder? Where's the corpse? Where's the proof of what she did? Can't charge the doctor, since what he did was completely legal in his home country.
I can see charging back alley abortion doctors in the States, but believing they'd be able to bring up charges and make them stick against the women themselves who went across the border for, and let's be completely honest here no matter how sickening and disgusting people find it personally, the same right to do what she wants to her body that all Americans have, is a massive stretch, unless somehow having an abortion is a terrorist act, which is the only way I could see something like that happening.
And for another factor: What would you charge them for anyways? Since not even the Supreme Court in the States have put down a solid ruling on just when an abortion should count as 'murder'.
The detection/enforcement and the legality of the situation aren't related. Who is going to tell the government that you're taking cocaine? That doesn't make it any more legal.
So, the Government has the right to tell people what to do with their bodies then?
Squish, I'm being completely serious here and not trying to mock you or anything: But really, that has to be one of more backward thinking statements I've ever seen. I know you see it as killing a child and wouldn't want to see anyone you know get an abortion...but would you actually turn them in to the police, and have the woman 'forced' to have the pregnancy against her wishes? Because honestly, that's the only way I could see something like that turn out, putting them in jail for 9 months since otherwise if the woman really wants to have an abortion, she'll find a way.
Of course, that's leaving out again, whether the ban would fall under a civil or criminal law in the first place.
Edit: Also Squish, I'd rather have had a response to
this.
Postado por
Monday
Are there rules allowing me to do something that legal in my country, but illegal in US?
If you're a citizen of the U.S, no. If you aren't, then it's not like they have jurisdiction over you anyways.
What about Assange, and Kim Dotcom. neither were US citizens, but Assange is wanted for treason, and kim dotcom had all of his assets frozen by the US government.
Do I look like I care? That's not related to my point in the slightest.
And sorry for sounding like a %^&*, but it's truly not related at all. I'm not sure why you're trying to pick a fight with me.
Postado por
Squishalot
Edit: Also Squish, I'd rather have had a response to
this.
I just quoted the last thing you'd said on the matter.
Let's break it down:
If you don't tell anyone that you are pregnant and you go over the border to a country where it's legal....what laws are you breaking? I'm being completely serious here: As far as any friends or family would know, you are just taking a trip
Benzene has affirmed that there is such a law that restricts a US citizen from travelling abroad with intent to commit an act that would otherwise be illegal in the US. If you're suggesting that going overseas is 'just a trip' irrespective of what you get up to, then you'd be insane - what you actually do overseas has to do with the law, not 'what people think you're doing', which isn't legally anything.
Also, a lot of Americans go over the border into Mexico for operations that would be considered illegal in the US(you'd be surprised by the thriving plastic surgery trade that is down there);
Since when was plastic surgery illegal in the US?
if they put through an entire country wide ban on abortions(which really, will never go through no matter who's in the White House), people will still find ways to do it.
There's a country-wide ban on cocaine, and people still find ways to buy / use it. That doesn't impact the legality of it.
Hell, the same thing happened with gay marriage: Couples from the States would go to Canada and get married; certain areas of the States may not recognize them as being 'legal' but that wasn't important to the couples themselves who wanted to be married.
It's not illegal to have a party and kiss someone of the same gender, which is all that non-government-recognised marriage is.
So, the Government has the right to tell people what to do with their bodies then?
Actually, yes, when it has to do with health and safety and other people's lives, especially when it comes at a tax payer's money. If the government and medical community have a view that a fetus is a human life, then abortion = ending a human life, it's as simple as that. I appreciate that there's a question mark over whether it is murder or other. ("Justifiable homicide?" There are some Republicans who might like that sort of statement.)
But really, that has to be one of more backward thinking statements I've ever seen. I know you see it as killing a child and wouldn't want to see anyone you know get an abortion...but would you actually turn them in to the police, and have the woman 'forced' to have the pregnancy against her wishes?
What statement was that? Where did I say I would turn in a pregnant woman wanting an abortion in to the police? Where did I say I'd turn drug users into the police? I asked 'who is going to tell the government that you're taking cocaine?'. Haven't you been to parties where guys are taking drugs? Underage drinkers? Underage smokers? Did you turn any of them in? I know I haven't, so I have no idea what you're talking about.
What I said was that detection / enforcement and legality are completely unrelated. The fact that nobody is going to turn you in is unrelated to the fact that it's an illegal act.
Postado por
Adamsm
Benzene has affirmed that there is such a law that restricts a US citizen from travelling abroad with intent to commit an act that would otherwise be illegal in the US. If you're suggesting that going overseas is 'just a trip' irrespective of what you get up to, then you'd be insane - what you actually do overseas has to do with the law, not 'what people think you're doing', which isn't legally anything.But that's the main question: Is it illegal or is there just a ban on abortion itself. Also, as much as I hate to bring it up in this thread, there are complete sickos who go overseas and have sex with underage prostitutes and then go home and cannot be charged for said acts; they can be charged as a pedophile if the cops can find solid proof they've done it in the States. Now, they can try to get the criminal charged in the country it happened, but well, we all know how well that usually works out. So, as abortion is legal in Canada or trying to find the Mexican doctor who did is very hard, how would they make a case against the woman?
Since when was plastic surgery illegal in the US?There is a certain limit to plastic surgery that most US doctors won't go over, so some people do head to other countries to have the surgeries done. To me, as sad as it will seem, I can see abortion falling under that.
Which again, doesn't ignore the fact that it happened before, and you didn't see people in the 40s, 50s and 60s being dragged off to jail for having an out of country abortion.
It's not illegal to have a party and kiss someone of the same gender, which is all that non-government-recognised marriage is.But it is illegal in certain States to try to file your same sex partner as your wedded spouse.
If the government and medical community have a view that a fetus is a human life, then abortion = ending a human life, it's as simple as that. I appreciate that there's a question mark over whether it is murder or other. ("Justifiable homicide?" There are some Republicans who might like that sort of statement.)But that's the thing: No one does have that same view; if they did, the abortion issue wouldn't be the problem it is now. There is a question mark over whether a fetus is a human being or not till week 20 too there Squish.
The fact that nobody is going to turn you in is unrelated to the fact that it's an illegal act.Which is why a bill like that would never pass, since not enough of the country thinks of an abortion as an illegal act.
Postado por
Squishalot
But that's the main question: Is it illegal or is there just a ban on abortion itself.
See, that's an interesting question. A ban on abortion would be a health authority edict, as such, rather than making the act of abortion a criminal act. This is linked back to plastic surgery thing - it's not illegal for a
person
to have that much plastic surgery, it's illegal for a
doctor
to do that much plastic surgery onto a person. Just like it's not illegal to drink while intoxicated, but it's illegal for a bartender to pour drinks for someone who is intoxicated. (But hey, who the hell enforces that?)
Now, if abortion was made criminal, then yes, you could see people being hauled off to prison for going elsewhere. Whether it's done that way will be a question of whether a government would be willing to put pen to paper about 'a fetus is a human', which is quite a big step, and has more ramifications than simply making abortion illegal.
But it is illegal in certain States to try to file your same sex partner as your wedded spouse.
Are the folks getting married in Canada going back to those said states and filing their same sex partner as their wedded spouse? They're not.
But that's the thing: No one does have that same view; if they did, the abortion issue wouldn't be the problem it is now. There is a question mark over whether a fetus is a human being or not till week 20 too there Squish.
Which is why a bill like that would never pass, since not enough of the country thinks of an abortion as an illegal act.
See above. It's about how abortion is banned. If it's just that the process is banned, then people are free to travel abroad and abort if they want. If they draw a line in the sand about human life, then it's a different story.
Postado por
Adamsm
Well all things considered, I really think it's going to end up going to remain legal in the majority of the US
, no matter how they try to get it to go otherwise.
But as it says at the bottom of the article regarding Europe: In countries where abortion is illegal or restricted, it is common for women to travel to neighboring countries with more liberal laws. It is estimated that over 6,000 Irish women travel to England to have abortions every yearIf they tried that in the States, the same thing would be happening.
Postado por
Squishalot
I'm not sure how your link relates to your assertion?
Postado por
Adamsm
Because right now the States is showing as one those blue countries, which means abortions are legal there
already
. If the government tried to suddenly change that and make it illegal, you know that the population itself would be looking for ways to still get one, and with one country that has it legalized and another one where you can get pretty much anything for money on the borders, you'll see them doing it, no matter the risk.
Postado por
Squishalot
No, I meant, why do you think it's going to end up remaining legal? Or do you mean from a 'criminal' perspective, as in, it will just be 'banned'?
Postado por
Adamsm
No, I meant, why do you think it's going to end up remaining legal? Or do you mean from a 'criminal' perspective, as in, it will just be 'banned'?
Because making it illegal would be a massive step backwards for the country and would cause a lot more problems then it would 'fix'(honestly, making it illegal would fix no problems at all). Heck, look at
Mississippi last year
; they failed by 55% to get a law passed through that would have banned abortion in the State; and really, if they can't pull it off there, what chance does the rest of the US have?
After all, even if the Republicans get in, they'd still have to pass laws through and I doubt many would vote in favor of overturning Roe vs Wade(as seen in the last nearly 40 years as they've kept trying to do that) as that would just take away too much of a persons personal choice.
Postado por
Magician22773
Squish, I'm being completely serious here and not trying to mock you or anything: But really, that has to be one of more backward thinking statements I've ever seen.
I love the mentality, or lack of, in this statement. Wanting to save a human life is the most backward things you have ever seen. Sucking a living baby out of a womb doesn't bother you at all, but being a "tattle-tail" is reprehensible.
Also, as much as I hate to bring it up in this thread, there are complete sickos who go overseas and have sex with underage prostitutes
Why should this be any of your business.
Do what ye will, but harm none
, remember. If its legal, and the 12 yr old is a willing participant, what business is it of yours? It doesn't affect you. I mean, just because our government says you have to be 16-18 to have sex, those countries don't find it to be a problem.
Postado por
Squishalot
Because making it illegal would be a massive step backwards for the country and would cause a lot more problems then it would 'fix'(honestly, making it illegal would fix no problems at all). Heck, look at
Mississippi last year
; they failed by 55% to get a law passed through that would have banned abortion in the State; and really, if they can't pull it off there, what chance does the rest of the US have?
After all, even if the Republicans get in, they'd still have to pass laws through and I doubt many would vote in favor of overturning Roe vs Wade(as seen in the last nearly 40 years as they've kept trying to do that) as that would just take away too much of a persons personal choice.
You might as well say that no change whatsoever will ever occur. The pro-life crowd are just as passionate and have just as much support as the pro-gay-marriage crowd (i.e. significant numbers, but not enough for a majority consensus), but that's not exactly reducing the impetus for gay marriage change.
As for backward steps, the US has
shown itself to be remarkably capable
of doing exactly that.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##
Resposta da Mensagem
Você não iniciou a seção. Por favor, faça
login
para escrever uma resposta ou
registre-se
se ainda não tiver uma conta.