Can Expose Armor's 4% armor debuff be interpreted as 4% damage increase?

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Postado por 664481

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Postado por Attis

Probably cause you're an assassination rogue? Remember that it affects only physical damage.

Postado por 664481

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Postado por Attis

Your current level? Dummy's level?
DamageReduction = TargetArmor / (TargetArmor + 4037.5*AttackerLevel – 317117.5)

Postado por hymer

@ Attis. Most impressive! I don't understand it, but it's impressive!

@ OP: Suppose the armor of your target reduces its damage taken from physical attacks by 33%. It then takes 67 points of physical damage every time you hit for 100. Now, if you debuff the target by about 12%, he'd lose (let's say) enough of his armor to now only reduce physical damage taken by 30%.
Your physical damage went up by 3 points (about 4.5%).

On top of that discrepancy are things like bleeds and poison damage (as Attis hinted at, I think), which aren't affected by armor. These figures would not be changed by the debuff.

So the answer to your headline: No.

Postado por 664481

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Postado por stuffeh

Poisons are spells, they ignore armor. Rupture/garrote/crimson tempest are bleeds, which also ignores armor.

SS/Evis/RvS/white hits are physical, which is mitigated by armor. I'm not sure what class blade fury falls under, but I'm guessing physical.

Supposedly, the armor for a lvl 93 (raid bosses and target dummies with skulls) target is 24,835, which means that the target mitigates about 29% of your physical damage. So if you plug in all the numbers, physical dmg increase is about 2.99%.

BTW, Expose Armor doesn't do any damage itself. It isn't like RvS which also hits the target, it ONLY applies a debuff, nothing else.

Postado por stuffeh

Thanks for the example. Certainly making me reevaluate my thinking of when to use Expose Armor, even with the glyph, in PVP context.

In PVP context, it might be worth it IF you're going up against tanks. Put up the debuff on them, they can have anywhere between 30% and 75% armor which would do quite a bit if you're sub/combat. If you're assassin, don't bother, your poisons will ignore that armor anyways.

Postado por 664481

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Postado por stuffeh

Most of a hunter's (and their pet's) abilities are physical, *some* are magic. Fire/poison/arcane I believe (don't quote me on this). Yes, there are hunter pets that puts up the armor debuff, but they will loose out on the snare/cc abilities of other pets.

You've got the right idea. Just remember to stay behind them so they don't parry/dodge/block your abilities/white hits.

If you're in a RBG and up against a geared tank, and the other people on your team are physical based dps, feel free to put it up. Most druids and warriors should already be putting up the debuff on the EFC though. Might want to get the weakaura addon to track if the target has the debuff.

Postado por 664481

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Postado por stuffeh

If by cap, you mean does the debuff stack if more than 1 person puts it up? None of the player applied debuffs can/will stack. So this means that it is quite pointless to overlap them.

I'm pretty sure that applying your debuff before the other person's runs out will NOT extend it. E.g., warrior has 5 seconds left on his. You put up yours and it will NOT add the warrior's 5 seconds to it. I've never personally tried this, and I've never heard of this happening, so you are welcome to test it out. I highly doubt this will work just because there's no other spell in game that works like this other than one of a brewmaster monk's ability, and how if you reapply one of your own debuffs before the last tick, the last tick will not be wasted/overwritten by your re-application.

Postado por 664481

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Postado por AnrDaemon

stuffeh, I think, you mean non-damaging debuffs, like RvS or Weakened Armor/Blows. Because DoT's from different players definitely stack.

Postado por stuffeh

The EA debuff doesn't stack.
Veneno Entorpecente, Veneno Debilitante, doesn't stack.

If you don't believe me, go to your target dummy, take off all gear that procs agil/mastery and white hit the dummy. Note the dmg values. Now do the same, but put up the EA debuff on the dummy. For the test, find another warrior/druid/rogue have them put up JUST sunder armor/FF on a target dummy while yours is up and now white hit it.

Edit: I re-read your post AnrDaemon. DOTs stack, only in the sense that they do their own damage independently of anyone else's DOT. But I never mentioned DOTs, was only talking about debuff.

Debuff I define as a non-damaging thing on the target which causes said target to take more damage due to the manipulation of their stats and resistances. A DOT is a thing that is applied that does damage over time.

Postado por AnrDaemon

Non-lethal poisons, as per their literal naming, are non-damaging debuffs. They don't do damage by themselves.
DoT's are debuffs, too. Because they aren't buffs. There's only 3 categories for it. Beneficial auras applied to character (buffs), harmful auras applied to character (debuffs) and item enhancements, applied, respectively, to items (shaman enchants/rogue poisons).
Trying to extract some of them in a separate category is asking for more confusion along the way, IMHO.
There's need to be clarification of stacking, too, as Weakened Armor do stack, not per character, but per application (up to 3 stacks).

Postado por stuffeh

I really do not see the point in your posts, your more armor debuff centric statement just agreed ("Weakened Armor do stack, not per character") with my original general statement that works for every type of debuff (" None of the player applied debuffs can/will stack .").

ALSO it was already established much earlier on by the OP and also by hymer about maxed stacks of EA "to apply a 12% armor reduction". Looks like everyone is on the same page there.

Here's something that should change your view on how wow works, whether you like it or not, dots is a sub class of debuffs. They have different mechanics compared to each other. One noticeable thing is that a debuff won't fall off by itself once applied if under hit cap. Dots on the other hand has that chance to miss when ticking. The only reason to keep debuff and dots under the same umbrellas is that a debuff is a negative thing applied to the target. Dot (damage over time) is also a negative thing on the target. DOTs and debuffs are different.

You can argue this point till you're just silly. For example, if you loosen the definition of a debuff to allow "harmful auras applied" over just 1 tick, an eviscerate will also classify as a debuff. And I don't see why not, /cast eviscerate would work just as well to do damage as /cast rupture.

In closing, I can't believe I spent so much time writing this.