Hypocritical responses, on the side of M+. Someone who exclusively wants to raid and not participate in M+ would be in the same situation. Especially at the start of the tier when +15's are rewarding an endless supply of 465 ilvl loot... Look, I get there are some players that only want to do M+. They miss out on rewards from Raids and PvP that way, it's kinda their choice to ignore other parts of the game like that. All three from the Podcast are concerned with the effect that the two final bosses of the raid dropping pieces higher than M+ entails on the M+ player that ignores these other activities and focuses exclusively on M+.However, for the past three seasons the opposite has been true. M+ has had some rewards (Trinkets and weapons) that were able to outperform the majority of current tier Mythic and PvP rewards. Players wanting to compete in PvP during season 1 were infamously going after Ritual Wraps as a trinket. Balefire and Ignition Fuse, from M+, are still incredibly powerful on Use trinkets. And as for tanks, there really isn't anything like Jes Howler in terms of an on demand defensive. Pieces of M+ loot, under the last three seasons, were easily more valuable to players than Raid loot. Given that it could be farmed, Titanforges and random sockets were much more commonly found and enough to push many items over the edge making them better than the raid gear. In the case of rings, a socketed ring with your best two stats on it would easily beat out any of the base drops found in the raid. Especially so if either of the 3 rings the raid drops didn't have your ideal stats. Compared to the 13 different rings found throughout the M+ system.