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11h	New Customization Options for Blood Elves and Void Elves
16h	Tune in June 9 for a live Shadowlands Update!
16h	Gushing Wound Adjustment -- Update May 27
16h	Gushing Wound Corruption Effect Reduction

16h	Gushing Wound Adjustment -- Update May 27
16h	Tune in June 9 for a live Shadowlands Update!
16h	Tune in June 9 for a live Shadowlands Update!
18h	New customization options for blood elves and void elves
5d	Rejuvithorn appreciation thread. :purple_heart:

Jdotb BFA Q&A #13 - Tides of Vengeance Thoughts, Role Rankings for 8.1

posted 2018/12/10 at 7:40 PM by Squishei

[spell=90099] live video from jdotb on www.twitch.tv

Part 1: Pre-Season 1 Preparations

Part 2: Learning Skips, Personal Loot

Part 3: Azerite Traits, King's Rest Advice

Part 4: Azerite Armor, Infested and Teeming

Part 5: DPS Roles

Part 6: Tank Meta, Arcane Torrent

Part 7: Mythic+ Currency System, Class Buffs

Part 8: MDI All Stars

Part 9: Mythic+ Healer Balance, Regional Class Preference

Part 10: Explosive, Underrot, Tol Dagor Changes

Part 11: Reaping, Grievous, Boss Difficulty

Part 12: Shadowmeld, Season 2 Item Levels

Part 13: 8.1 Thoughts and Role Rankings

Part 14: 8.1 Dungeon Changes, Keystone Deletion

Part 15: Remaining Issues in Mythic+

Want to ask Jdotb a question? Leave a comment below and we'll pick some questions for Jdotb to answer in the next Q&A!

Jdotb Q&A #13Patch 8.1 (Tides of Vengeance) drops tomorrow, and it will introduce a number of significant changes to BFA. The most anticipated changes are those to certain specs that have been significantly reworked. I'll be doing a guided tour of some of the more notable 8.1 updates in this week's Q&A (which will be a Q&A only nominally), so let's dive into those class changes.Two popular M+ specs, Frost mage and Subtlety rogue, will be getting chopped Tuesday for different reasons. Frost is getting its utility significantly slashed by a nerf to the duration of the slow that Blizzard applies to mobs, from 15 sec to 3 sec. The reason Frost enjoyed tremendous popularity at the start of BFA was the ability to keep mobs permanently snared with the 15 sec slow because Blizzard has an 8 second cooldown, so you could recast it nearly twice before its effect wore off. With the new 3 second snare, mobs will be able to move out of the radius of Blizzard and start running again before it can be recast, and it will be harder to keep Blizzard on top of a large pack that begins to sprawl. Fire mage had already begun to displace Frost in many M+ groups thanks to markedly better single target damage, and this Blizzard nerf will likely close the book on Frost's short reign in the M+ meta.

Sub rogue, on the other hand, will be losing a big chunk of its damage in the form of a Shuriken Combo nerf. For the uninitiated, Sub has been a popular spec in M+ because of its ability to focus incredible damage on a single mob so long as at least five (and preferably six) targets exist. This single target damage comes from the interaction of Shuriken Storm (Sub's AoE generator ability) and Evisceration (Sub's single target spender). For every target hit by Shuriken Storm, a combo point is generated, meaning at five targets a rogue is capping its combo points each cast. Further, Sub has a passive called Shuriken Combo that makes its next Evisceration do extra damage for each target beyond the first hit by Shuriken Storm. So a rogue with six targets can perform a simple routine of Shuriken Storm > Eviscerate repeatedly and focus down one mob. Shuriken Combo made this even better because each Shuriken Storm would make Evisceration hit 40% harder. Combo has now been removed, meaning the fat Eviscerations that made Sub so valuable will be getting a haircut. To top it off, Sub is getting an ironic buff to Shuriken Storm damage (from 18% to 24.3% of attack power) that will mean Sub kills all the extra pad mobs faster that it wants to keep alive for its single target damage. The spec is by no means dead, but its status as a single target specialist in M+ has taken a big hit.While those two specs headline the 8.1 nerfs, there are a few other specs getting dinged that are worth mentioning.
Discipline priest is getting an aura modifier adjustment to Smite and Shadow Word: Pain, from -9% to -19%, and nerfs to several other damage talents (Halo, Power Word: Solace, Purge the Wicked and Schism) that will affect both its damage and healing in a noticeable way. Atonement will be getting reduced from 60% conversion to 55%, and Weakened Soul will be getting reintroduced to Power Word: Shield so that a single target cannot be spammed with PW:S repeatedly (unless Radiance is active). While these changes were absolutely needed in raids, it will remove Disc from contention as a top M+ healer. The spec lacks real ways to deal with single target damage, a weakness that can be hidden in raids by other healers but becomes evident quickly in high M+ keys.

Blood death knight and Brewmaster monk, who between them account for 97% of tank representation in +20 and above keys, are both getting tuned. Blood is getting Bonestorm, its signature M+ talent, capped at 15% healing per second (previously 3% per target uncapped) as well as a nerf to Will of Necropolis (was 35% less damage taken while under 35% health, now 30% for both) and a reversion of a PTR buff to Bone Shield. This will have a significant effect on Blood's ability to survive large pulls and will make the spec squishier in general. Brewmaster will be getting the value of its Stagger mechanic reduced (I'm a little unclear on the exact math, but I believe it's something like a 6% nerf) which will make the spec a bit more susceptible to spike damage but won't affect its playstyle much.Now that we've gotten the sadface changes out of the way, let's celebrate the specs that got buffed.A few classes got reworked a bit -- Elemental shaman, Shadow priest and Marksmanship all saw substantial changes to their kits numbers-wise. Some just got flat buffs, like Guardian druid and Protection warrior. And some got their mastery effects played with, like Feral and Balance druids.

For the reworked classes, there is cause for hope. I've been hearing good things especially about Shadow on the PTR, and it sounds like the spec will be in a good place as far as damage goes. This will undoubtedly be good for Shadow priests looking to raid, but that's not the end of the discussion in M+. Unfortunately for Shadow, it still lacks in the utility department. It doesn't bring the immunities or mobility of a mage, and it doesn't have the AoE CC or battle res of a balance druid, so at this point the only thing that's going to get Shadow an invite to high level groups would be astronomical damage. And while I've heard Shadow's damage is good now, I haven't heard that it's better than the specs it would be competing against. There will always be room in M+ for specs that obliterate stuff (like late-Legion Windwalker), but usually damage is even enough across specs that it stops being a differentiating feature, so you focus on things like defensives and utility. And Shadow still doesn't bring much for you there.

Elemental shaman is another spec that got some new talents and buffs to their damage, and Ele was already a strong class in that regard. I don't think the 8.1 buffs will necessarily propel Ele into the M+ meta, but I do think that the dyed-in-the-wool shamans will have an opportunity to compete in high level keys.

I haven't heard much about the Marksmanship changes, which I sort of assume means they aren't earth shattering, but it at least signals an effort by the design team to elevate the spec back into relevance. Maybe it's different in Europe, but in NA there has been a distinct lack of hunters this expansion, and I can't help but think that part of that owes to the current inevitably of speccing Beast Mastery which carries with it a reputation for being fairly simple. Marks has always been the favored spec as far as interesting rotational gameplay is concerned, so if it ends up anywhere close to BM in the damage department I expect to see an exodus in the hunter community.

Guardian druid has languished in BFA so far, both because the spec itself is kind of boring and because it doesn't distinguish itself outside of being a meatshield. The changes to Guardian in 8.1 consist primarily of a fairly big across-the-board buff to its damage and not much else. Ursol's Vortex was introduced as a talent, which is a nice tool to keep mobs grouped but doesn't really help in getting them grouped in the first place, and Stampeding Roar was reduced to a one minute cooldown. Buffs are always nice, but Guardian needs qualitative not quantitative changes at this point.

Protection warrior has gotten the community excited recently because it deals insane damage for a tank. 8.1 will take Ignore Pain off the global cooldown which has been a persistent complaint from the warrior community since beta, and it will give Prot more baseline health and armor via a buff to Vanguard. These are all good changes, but they don't really address the core issue with Prot right now which is that the spec is a tale of two cities when it comes to taking damage: if the damage being received is capable of being blocked with a shield, warrior is probably the best tank in the game; if the damage can't be blocked (read: magical or DoT damage), warriors get shredded. This leaves warriors in a place where they're fantastic for some dungeons and abysmal in others, and 8.1 doesn't really change that. I expect to see warriors pop up a bit more, but it still won't be a consistent presence in the meta.

Balance druid is getting its mastery changed up a bit to include Starsurge in the spells affected by mastery, and this should have a positive effect on the spec's single target damage. Balance is already a popular pick in M+ because of its outstanding utility and defensives, and if the 8.1 mastery changes make the class a pumper on boss fights while also dealing strong sustain damage on trash packs, you can expect to see this spec all over the leaderboards.Having addressed most of the relevant class changes, it's time to unveil my updated role rankings for 8.1:Tanks1A. Blood Death Knight - You'll see a lot of hand wringing about the Bonestorm nerf and general tankiness of the class following the nerf to Will of the Necropolis, but Blood still has the best utility kit of all the tanks and a smorgasbord of mitigation cooldowns at its disposal. I suspect that there will be a learning period after 8.1 where DKs figure out their new limits, but I don't think the class falls too far from its current perch.

1B. Brewmaster Monk - I'm already of the opinion that monk is situationally superior to DK in some dungeons, and while BrM is getting a Stagger nerf, it's less of a nerf to than the one being handed to DKs. I'll admit that I'm a bit surprised that more people aren't playing BrM is dungeons, but if you spend some time with a good monk it doesn't take long to see just how durable and mobile this spec can be.

2A. Vengeance Demon Hunter - I started BFA with a high opinion of Vengeance, but the spec hasn't lived up to the hype from beta. A lack of mitigation cooldowns (once you've popped Demon Spikes and Metamorphosis, you're dry) and general squishiness means a DH has to kite early and often on big pulls, which hurts both their own DPS and the DPS of the group. DH doesn't have res capability (battle or otherwise) like DK and monk, which can make group comp more difficult to balance around, and the utility of the class that was so good in Legion because it kept mobs locked down just doesn't translate to BFA where mobs will murder you with just auto attacks.

2B. Protection Warrior - As I mentioned earlier, if you put Prot warrior in a dungeon where all the damage can be mitigated with shield block, this spec is a powerhouse. And there are some dungeons that fit that damage profile. This will be an all-or-nothing spec that the community might avoid because of its inconsistency, but will be powerful when its in its element.Healers1A. Mistweaver Monk - Mistweaver is the current king of burst healing, which can be incredibly important in M+. Vivify spam does enormous single target healing, and cleaving it onto your Renewing Mists allows monks to top off multiple party members very quickly. Mana remains an issue for the spec, and it's very easy to get a little too crazy with healing and run out of mana, but the strength of the heals is undeniable. The spec has good utility with Ring of Peace, Leg Sweep, and valuable dispel schools (disease and poison), and Mystic Touch is a nice addition for party damage. One-shot mechanics aren't nearly as prevalent in BFA as Legion so far, so monks lack of mitigation hasn't been an issue.

1B. Restoration Druid - While it lacks the burst of monk, druid has fantastic sustain healing and great AoE. The spec is also pretty thrifty with mana so it can handle long Tyrannical fights well. It does great damage and has good utility with battle res, stealth, Ursol's Vortex and Typhoon, and it can take a beating in bear form. Probably the most versatile healer in M+ right now, but it will struggle on any encounter that features a lot of spike damage.

2A. Discipline Priest - The king of healer DPS, even after the 8.1 nerfs, Disc will always appeal to a certain portion of the population. It does great AoE healing via Atonement, but the spec struggles with asymmetrical damage on the party. Too often it will be required to start spamming Shadow Mend to keep people alive, and Shadow Mend just isn't a great tool by itself for single target healing. Unfortunately Disc's ridiculousness in raids is getting it clipped in M+, too; hopefully the spec can get rebalanced so that it can tackle small group healing without being a monster in 20-man settings.

2B. Holy Paladin - I've heard some in the community speculate that paladin will slowly overtake the rest of the healers as the expansion continues and ilvl creeps up, getting paladins closer and closer to a guaranteed crit with Holy Shock. Color me skeptical at this point. Still, the spec has fantastic utility and good burst healing, and it's more likely to get buffed than nerfed going forward so it may be a sneakily good pick for the long game.DPSAssassination Rogue - With the changes to Sub, Assassination slides into the top spot for rogues. Rogue damage is still very competitive, and Shroud of Concealment is irreplaceable in several dungeons. Coupled with good defensives and mobility, rogue will be the cornerstone for most high level groups.

Havoc Demon Hunter - BFA has seen double melee rise to prominence, but that's less about melee in general and more about how good rogue and DH are specifically. DH brings everything to the table -- great damage both single target and AoE, crazy defensives with Blur, Blade Dance, Netherwalk and Darkness, fantastic mobility, and good CC with Imprison. This spec can do it all.

Fire Mage - The premiere damage dealing ranged spec at the moment. It will be getting touched a bit by the nerf to Blaster Master, but it still brings the heat. Great survivability with Ice Block and Cauterize combined with good mobility from Blink plus the ability to cheese some mechanics with Invisibility. Plus it brings Arcane Intellect.

Balance Druid - Like Demon Hunter, Balance is strong a lot of different things. It brings the druid utility kit which is deep and powerful, and Solar Beam and Treants are some of the best AoE CC abilities in the game. It doesn't bring AoE burst, which hurts, and Lively Spirit is going to be getting nerfed which will cut down on the ability to do massive sustain damage, but the mastery rework will hopefully make the single target DPS a bit punchier. Also brings a battle res which is big.Comments on Week of December 11 AffixesDungeons Most Affected by Fortified
King's Rest - The mini bosses following the Golden Serpent (Queen Patlaa, Queen Wasi, King Rahu'ai and King A'akul) are all scary without buffs, so giving them more health and damage makes this room uncomfortable at best. Spectral Berserkers leave a nasty physical DoT on the tank that stacks, and it can quickly get out of control on Fortified weeks. Watch out for Spectral Beastmaster's Poison Barrage as it can easily wipe a group if it hits multiple party members. Shadow of Zul will deal a lot of damage to the tank, so make sure to have cooldowns ready.

Waycrest Manor - The Heartsbane witches and Bewitched Captains do tremendous damage to the tank, and the Matrons have a lot of health. The confined quarters of the manor don't leave much room for kiting, either. The Gloom Horrors before the final boss do a lot of damage when they jump, so you will want to be careful about which party member is standing furthest out (which is what determines who gets leapt on).

Motherlode - Be sure to interrupt Hired Assassins as their Toxic Blades / Hail of Flechettes combo can easily wipe a group. Mine Rats target random players with Throw Rock, so be careful not to pull too many and risk bad RNG on who gets targeted. Taskmaster Askari wrecks tanks, so make sure to have cooldowns ready for him. Watch out for Mastermind's Energy Lash as it hurts quite a bit, and don't let Feckless Assistants finish their Transfiguration Serum cast or they will turn into Grotesque Experiments which are much more difficult. Be vigilant with Crawler Mines on the way to Mogul as they will do quite a bit of damage if they explode on a player.Dungeons Most Affected by TeemingWaycrest Manor - Several additional Heartsbane and Coven witches are added to Waycrest for Teeming, and those mobs are no joke. An extra Thornguard in the courtyard makes big pulls even more dangerous. The added Teeming trash will make life difficult for the tank as the mobs in Waycrest hit pretty hard.

The Underrot - A few new Blood Matrons show up at the start of the dungeon which is not good. Lots of added Fetid Maggots on the way to the second boss means you probably won't have enough ways to break their Rotten Bile casts so you'll need to keep your head on a swivel. Cragmaw's room has lots of extra Bloodswarmers which might be the most annoying mob in the game. At least the back half of the dungeon is fairly untouched.

The MOTHERLODE!! - You'll get some extra Assassins and Mech Jockeys before the first boss which isn't great but isn't terrible either. The Taskmaster Askari pull before Azerokk gets some extra adds, and that pull is already hectic enough. The real issue is the inclusion of several new Masterminds before Rixxa and literally dozens of new Crawler Mines on the way to Razdunk. This makes battle res skips almost mandatory.Dungeons Most Affected by QuakingWaycrest Manor - The narrow hallways of the manor will make it difficult to avoid stacking up during Quaking. The Triad will be much more dangerous during Sister Solena's phase as Aura of Apathy will make it difficult to heal through Quaking, and if Quaking and Jagged Nettles come out simultaneously it will likely kill the Nettles target. You'll want to be sure not to trigger Goliath's Burning Brush right before Quaking goes off.

Tol Dagor - The cell blocks in the prison won't leave you much room to spread out for Quaking. Watch for Upheaval on the first boss coinciding with Quaking as that will need cooldowns. Be extra careful with your positioning on Overseer Krogus -- it will already be hard to heal through Bursting Shot combined with Quaking, and any overlaps of those abilities will kill someone.

Shrine of the Storm - There are a couple minibosses in Shrine with heavy AoE damage abilities (Windspeaker Heldis' Gale Winds and Guardian Elemental's Shipbreaker Storm) that will make Quaking especially deadly. The Abyss Dweller pulls already do a lot of random party damage, so Quaking can be enough to kill people that get Lashed several times in a row.Dungeons Most Affected by This Week's AffixesWaycrest Manor - Quaking will make everything miserable because of the close quarters, and the Teeming mobs in here are all going to be nasty with Fortified. Expect your tank to complain a lot.

The Underrot - You've got some room to move around with Quaking, but the trash in here was already painful with Fortified, and Teeming adds a bunch of the worst offenders. The dungeon gets back to normal for the most part after you finish Cragmaw, but the trash up to him will be rough going.

The MOTHERLODE!! - Lots of space for Quaking, and some of the Teeming mobs that get added aren't really all that bad. The biggest issue with Motherlode this week is that it will make you pull even more mobs than you have to pull on non-Teeming weeks (which was already a considerable amount) and the Teeming mobs that show up after Azerokk are a nightmare. I usually recommend trying to death skip the trash before Rixxa and Razdunk, but this week that becomes more of a requirement than a recommendation.Dungeons Least Affected by This Week's Affixes
Freehold - This dungeon already has a ton of mobs in it, so sprinkling in a few extra doesn't make much difference with Teeming. Freehold is wide open so Quaking won't be a big deal, and there is plenty of room to kite trash in case the Fortified damage gets intense.

Temple of Sethraliss - Not many extra mobs from Teeming, and enough space to make Quaking manageable. You'll probably want to avoid the packs at the front as much as possible on Teeming, but otherwise the dungeon isn't much affected.

Siege of Boralus - Relatively minor amounts of new mobs on Teeming and enough room to keep Quaking from being a big issue. You'll want to be careful about being stacked up on the last boss during transitions from platform to platform with Quaking.

Comments

Comment by rjstadt93yeah... no.. bear will still be bad without added CDs, and the old FRComment by MenelvagorMEmberComment by lovelywaz"Freehold" stays true to its name on almost all the Affixes. You didn't mention Atal'Dazar at all, which is the king of "I don't care about Affixes", just faceroll and collect loot.Comment by LaozuzongThe guy at times is not even doing his homework on his own class druid, and people still look for his words as guidance, lol.Comment by Drakenkingyeah... no.. bear will still be bad without added CDs, and the old FRComment by MagikMurlokWhy didn't you mention any of the large changes to all 3 warlock specs?Comment by alinniaCan anyone tell me which M+ bosses a mage can invis to 'cheese' the mechanics? Off the top of my head, I can only think of Atal'Dazar first boss Rezan's Pursue.Comment by Sp00kyturb0Can anyone tell me which M+ bosses a mage can invis to 'cheese' the mechanics? Off the top of my head, I can only think of Atal'Dazar first boss Rezan's Pursue.Comment by Sp00kyturb0"Freehold" stays true to its name on almost all the Affixes. You didn't mention Atal'Dazar at all, which is the king of "I don't care about Affixes", just faceroll and collect loot.Comment by elephantear1The guy at times is not even doing his homework on his own class druid, and people still look for his words as guidance, lol.Comment by ShiozawaAnd Ret falls further down the hole...Comment by JolietJerryGrabs popcorn and waits for people, the vast majority of whom run LFR/Normal content, to skip right to class rankings, ignore the rest of the guide, and start declaring, “OMFG, MY SPEC IS NOT VIABLE! GG BLIZZ NO WONDER GAME IS DYING! YOU ALL HAVE PHONES THOUGH AMIRIGHT!”Comment by HushkawnekAnybody else find it kind of ironic that Havoc has more defensives than Vengeance?Comment by Nintura"Elemental shaman is another spec that got some new talents and buffs to their damage, and Ele was already a strong class in that regard. I don't think the 8.1 buffs will necessarily propel Ele into the M+ meta, but I do think that the dyed-in-the-wool shamans will have an opportunity to compete in high level keys."

What the hell are you talking about? We got some changes to talents, but wowhead and storm earth and lava both suggest AGAINST them. They even stated the one was absolutely worthless. Hell, thanks to the changes Ascendancy is actually a DPS LOSS TO USE IT.Comment by GinalianoCan anyone tell me which M+ bosses a mage can invis to 'cheese' the mechanics? Off the top of my head, I can only think of Atal'Dazar first boss Rezan's Pursue.

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Jdotb BFA Q&A #13 - Tides of Vengeance Thoughts, Role Rankings for 8.1

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