I been a Sylvanas loyalist on my mage, Saurfang on my dk. But I never got this quest on my mage, any ideas?
It literally presented you with a warning box saying this choice could not be changed and would prevent you from seeing the rest of the Saurfang quest chain.
I serve the Banshee Queen do you hear me Blizzard?
I am not at all surprised about what we have learned about Sylvanas yesterday/today. The moment she started to deny the Forsaken their free will, which was also an affront to the core value of the Horde, freedom, it was clear to me that Sylvanas does in fact NOT serve the Horde nor the Forsaken. At least not anymore.That moment came before BfA even started, in the "Before the Storm" story. This attitude of hers continued to show over time, raising dead Horde at Lordaeron, raising Derek Proudmoore, denying Derek any free will, using him - a Forsaken - as a tool. Just to name a few examples. She trampled upon the freedom of will of not just the Forsaken, "her" people, but the Horde as a whole.With that end to the war campaign, I'm quite happy that now everyone should be able to see the truth: She did not utter a single honest word to her Horde since the Burning Legion has been defeated. She lied to Saurfang, she lied to the other leaders of the Horde, she lied to every single Horde member (with the single exception of Nathanos, I suppose), and - most importantly - she lied to every single one of you, Sylvanas loyalist players. She betrayed the Horde and she betrayed every single one of you, dear loyalists.It was not just "pragmatism" or "extreme measures to protect the Horde" or whatever. All she did - for quite a long time - is follow her own agenda. The horde is nothing to her. All of them are nothing to her. Even the Forsaken.Even the Forsaken, who loved their Dark Lady, have seen this. It's beautifully shown in the video - how the Forsaken looks at her, when she says "you are nothing". She has her face hidden behind a mask but still you see. The Forsaken have been forsaken by Sylvanas, they have been mistreated and used as mere tools, as the rest of the Horde. Everyone can see that now and that's why the looming civil war among the Horde is ended in that moment.For me, this is a good day - the Forsaken can now be true and accepted members of the Horde and Sylvanas is exposed as the liar she is.The most funny thing for me about this is that there are still some players who stand behind her. Even after she proclaimed herself an "enemy of all", a proven liar and murderer, and does not care in the slightest about any single member of the Horde.
@Nachtfrost:I really don't think so, sorry. :)Many people seem to forget what a defining moment Arthas' death was for Sylvanas. Her goals, her motivation, everything about her changed fundamentally on that day when she lost her one and only purpose in undeath - revenge - and jumped off Icecrown citadel. Certainly we haven't been shown much of her development after her second death over the years (until Legion, when her "new" motivation became clearer), but in hindsight, it's not poor writing, but absolutely plausible and in character to me (and to a lot of others, considering the many Sylvanas discussions here on wowhead).Of course, it's fine to disagree on such a thing as the "true nature of a game character" - as I said, her development was not very clear for many years and I can absolutely understand that some people are shocked to see her changed so "suddenly", although these changes must have been going on for many years without us noticing.
There's nothing plausible about her "new motivation". The fact that her agency was revenge doesn't automatically transform her into what this impotent writing is trying to do simply because her metaphorical "goal" was achieved. They quite literally had no idea what to do with the character after WotLK and set her aside for a couple expansions then only to return to her as a Garrosh #2, only now with even more watered down motivation. And even setting the motivation aside, simply tactically her decisions as a Warchief are poorly written, considering she has more military experience and more calm than the entire Horde combined. The only leaders on either planet that are older than her are Velen and Tyrande with Malfurion, and neither have military experience.This absolutely is obnoxiously poor writing. You can make and argument of her playing 5D chess, but deep down this is as much of a retcon as everything that the writers committed to her character in the last several years.
Sylvanas is not Garrosh 2.0. We learned that only yesterday.Garrosh lost his honor and got extremist and racist in the process, but from the beginning to the end he was convinced of one thing: "All I did, I did for the Horde!"He truly believed that and that is the tragedy about his story in my opinion.Sylvanas on the other hand never did anything, truly, for the Horde. Before her second death, she did everything for revenge, then she got revenge, died and after that did everything to evade death. Whatever she is planning with that death magic of hers, Shadowlands and all that, we don't know exactly, but I'm sure all of it is to serve that goal. She doesn't want to die - ever - and if that means becoming a god of death herself, then that's possibly what she is trying to do.Garrosh was misguided, but he believed to serve the Horde. Sylvanas lied about serving the Horde from the beginning. She served herself and herself only - since her first death, that is.
No, she is quite literally Garrosh #2: a Horde leader twisted and wretched by completely impotent writing that the players are now supposed to dislike because a pathetic excuse for a writer in some dusty office decided so. We even get a siege of Orgrimmar, again.
@Nachtfrost: I guess it can't be helped, you argue "bad writing" repeatedly without proposing any useful arguments and you ignore every single good point made by others in this thread. We explained in length how Sylvanas' character development into a egomaniac focused on the single purpose of staying alive became obvious over the years. You haven't given any good points to show otherwise. Where is the evidence for Sylvanas being anything but self-serving after her 2nd death? I'm afraid the picture of this character in WoW and the picture in the head of many of her fans simply began to split at some point. I encourage you to try and think about what you have really seen of her ingame since Arthas' death and if that picture of her in your mind is really justified.And if you are unwilling to do that, than that's ok, too. Then we just agree to disagree, alright? Thing is, though, you'll have to live with that "bad writing" because it's canon now. Accept it and move on, and we'll see where Sylvanas' story will lead us. Who knows, maybe she'll surprise us all at some point.