1) PvP is way too grindy compared to PvE. This is a problem for casual pvpers that do normal bgs.2) Ilvl scaling is pretty boring as I think most people want to become more and more powerful in pvp as they get gear. What they should do instead is to have two different ilvl brackets in normal bgs. If we take current ilvls in BfA the breakpoint could be around 445 ilvl.
WoD was the best system. MoP was okay but people would just stack PvP power in every slot.
If anyone honestly believes that Blizzard did what they did to PvP without knowing the lasting ramifications of it is completely out of touch. The answer to the game's problems are in the past versions of the game. Blizzard did what they did to WoW because their most talented developers and leaders saw the company exponentially turn to a corporate sack of *!@# instead of the shining gold standard of the MMORPG genre and jumped ship. Blizzard tried to fill that void of creativity and innovation which was doomed to failure, because the people who replaced them were corporate minded scumbags only interested in making you play more, not having fun, which is what makes you play more to begin with. Not only did they remove the gear system, they also had terrible ideas like gutting the class abilities which made the metagame as deep as it was, in the name of "casuals", ignoring the fact that MMORPGS like WoW are NOT for casual players looking to kill time for an hour or two and eliminating the clear line of progression we experienced up until Legion. If you remove the incentive what is the point of playing anymore, to buy carries? How immensely asinine. Everything is randomly awarded with no sense of accomplishment. Retail WoW is royally screwed. The intention of the developers at this point is to appease the players just enough to keep them coming back. No sub from me and and I will not be buying SL. I would rather use my money as toilet paper because at least it will be flushed down the toilet after use.
I guess I'm a purist, but I like the idea of PvP gear not mattering at all. 100% skill-based feels better to me, even though I lose about as often as I win, when I win I earned it, when I lose it was legitimate. Are cosmetic rewards enough to drive PvP? Do hardcore PvP players play because of rewards, or is it just the PvP itself that drives them?
Selfishly, as someone who will raid Heroic but not Mythic and do a couple of M+ each week, I like it the way it is. I can jump into BGs, especially on bonus weeks, and not be crushed. But the serious PVPers are correct when they say they're at a disadvantage. Lots to think about in the article but I can't help but wonder if requiring two gear sets isn't a huge retrograde step. Surely there has to be an easier answer?
To be honest, it would only take like 5 mins to implement.. But how about...make questing give also the option to chose from pvp items as well (ofc if they would reintroduce pvp powes, but their problem with high entry barrier would be solved with this idea) with this alts couls join immediately after hitting cap. They would be able to participate in pvp immediately.
This article feels a bit bias in its retelling of how these systems used to work. PvP gearing has been brutal for the last 2 expansions, but we are trying to add back in systems that are for a different game.First off, alot of the PvP only stats were designed to keep pvp gear out of pve. You could not get into anything with PvE gear on. MoP was by far the worst for this. Also, all players inherently took a huge percentage less of dmg (upwards of 80% if i remember right) with PvP power reducing it. PvE gear was WAY better then PvP gear in terms of numbers, but PvP power made it so you could bring that 80% dmg reduction down to something like 20%, I think trinkets and weapons alone took off like 50% of the reduction. That kept PvE players out of PvP more then it kept PvP players out of PvE.WoDs system was fine, but the set bonuses were more what was significant, as they dramatically changed how your character worked. Paladins denounce would steal all the targets crit chance without a cooldown for like 5 seconds as an example. I'm suprised we are trying to say borrowed power first begun in legion, its always existed in item sets. Its just significantly more jarring to lose things we had the entire expansion, where as item sets change every season/tier.Then we are talking about BFA, which had awful gearing for pvp for sure, BUT saying you could get fully geared by running 14s for one day is absolutely insane. Not only would you need to either be geared for 14s (which defeats the purpose), or get carried by friends, but you would have to get into peoples groups who had the key for the dungeon you wanted. Not to mention only a few pieces dropped and were on personal loot, If you wore mail, good luck getting a group with similar gear types to trade you stuff.Grinding gear from mythics for PvP was the fastest way to gear towards the end of the patch, at the start it wasn't easy at all, which was the main issue with pvp gear this patch: the items never scaled. We were getting 445 gear from pvp, then after ages of farming arenas we would get 460 from capping. It needed to all scale better.The other thing we forget is 8.3 had the WORST power creep we have ever seen in wow. Corruption let trash players easily clear 14s, and be competitive in heroic and even Mythic raiding. Trinkets like drest became so painful because of versitility stacking (literally part of the reason jungle was so powerful). Corruption made mythics super easy to farm, they didn't start out that way.Shadowlands also has PvP trinkets taking up a slot (like it used to). This will make it so we can only really use 1 trinket, which we hopefully will have some interesting options from PvP, like we had with maladict. I personally don't mind some trinkets being strong from PvE, especially if you can only choose one, it would just be nice to have a competitive trinket from PvP.Shadowlands vendors have 2 real issues, cost and stats. Once cost is made reasonable (there is no way bg gear will stay as bad as it currently is), and at least 4 stat combos are added (verse + (haste, crit, mastery) and (haste + mastery) should cover the majority) then it'll be great. Not only that, but because we have an upgrade system we can progress gear as the game goes on. We can see that we get 2 more pvp gear upgrades based on covenant renown. This is a great way to keep gear scaling better into the patch, not to mention allows us to still feel progression with specific pieces of gear. If early on I want to farm a mythic to get a piece of gear, then I don't see a problem with using it as long as there is a piece of PvP gear that is just as good, and potentially better when conquest upgraded. Same with raid gear, as long as conquest gear scales as well as raid gear, there is no reason either should be removed from either type of content.Mythic plus dramatically changed the conversation from PvP vs PvE, and PvP only stats make it so we cant participate in other parts of the game with the gear we grind out.
MOP PVP was the most fun in PVP I've ever had in this game. I am also NOT an arena player, I don't enjoy them and have only ever reached 1800 during BFA. I am a PVP Casual at best. Getting last seasons gear from honor was a great way to get into the PVP scene. People keep saying that the entry was too hard or took too long, but in reality there were other people in the BG that were also gearing from the beginning so it wasn't really that bad. And I geared so many alts through BGs. Was it perfectly balanced? Nope. Was it fun as hell? Yep.The game has lost so many plays and counterplays that even BGs aren't as fun anymore. And this is coming from someone who played both a Frost Mage in MOP/WOTLK and an Arms Warrior in MOP/WOTLK. I LOVED the cat and mouse game, from both ends. It was so rewarding to quite literally outplay others. Admittedly easier as a Frost Mage, but kiting 3 players and killing them off one-by-one was so fun.My honest opinion is that PVP Power and PVP Resil coming back would fix so many things wrong with PVP. I want to PVP, I want to feel rewarded for PVPing. I want to hit non-PVP geared players REALLY hard in PVP. I'll admit it! It was fun! Yeah I wasn't that good in arena, but I was having fun. WoD was OK for PVP at best, and Legion felt really boring to me. BFA PVP only got fun for me once I had all the corruptions, cloak resistance, essences, and azerite gear to hit other players really hard. (I found this in Mastery stacking Ret Paladin.) This was more of a glass cannon sort of thing, but it is quite honestly the only fun I've had in PVP this whole expansion. I've played with Warmode off the whole time, even though I Mythic Raid, because it just went against a feeling of progression for PVP and had so many hidden things that didn't make sense to me. (And for good reason as Rextroy has shown over and over again.)In the end, I understand that PVE Players like the easier entry into PVP. (I did really like the suggestion of someone that allowed for PVP gear from quests, so maybe World Quests get you LFR level of gear but has a PVP or PVE choice of stats? I think that would be best for everyone.) But it really felt like PVP was dead this expansion. And Shadowlands so far hasn't shown me otherwise. I agree with the original post, but this is my feelings on PVP gear.
I'm not a pvper but with how corruptions were and still currently are an atrocity in many pvp scenarios, i highly doubt their changes are well thought out on their own for SL pvp. But again, i'm not a pvper so i hope the best for those that do at least.
Bring back MoP or WoD gearing system!
I kinda wish they just went back to the MoP system but gave a one time quest for fresh 60s (in SL, for example) which gave you either enough honor to buy some of the starter gear, or just gave you a starter set. It removes the barrier to entry and prevents people from having to go through a slog to get their gear, granted that this starter set would have to be revised every patch, to make sure it's still serviceable. Other than the barrier to entry, MoP was pretty great in terms of PvP gear, as a person in full gear could still do okay in PvE stuff, even if top end PvE gear would still be better, so this meant you didn't feel weak in the outdoor world, like was kinda the case in WoD. Granted that WoD gear could now be made to automatically scale up if warmode is enabled.
I have spent some time thinking how WoW could have a meaningful, balanceable PvP experience, which is easily accessible for anyone, but also rewarding for time investment. It would be a mixture of WoD and some not yet existing solutions without bringing back pvp stats like pvp power.Lets say for world activities requires 150 ilvl at least to complete (e.g. dailies, events).Honor Gear+10 ilvl compared to world activity requirement, (as the above example: 160 ilvl), can be purchased from honor points by playing BGs. The gear has no secondary stat, but two empty “stat sockets”.Conquest Gear+10 ilvl compared to Honor Gear, (as the above example: 170 ilvl), can be purchased from conquest points by playing Rated BG and Arenas. The gear has no secondary stat, but two empty “stat sockets”.Conquest Elite Gear+5 ilvl compared to Conquest Gear, (as the above example: 175 ilvl), scaling with rating (1500 bracers, 1600 belt… up to 2400). The gear has no secondary stat, but two empty “stat sockets”.Stat SocketsThe stat sockets can be purchased from both honor and conquest, but not containing values, only stat category (e.g. haste). The amount of stat is calculated based on the ilvl of the item you add it to. The stat value upscaling works the same as with M+ gear. The two stat socket cannot be the same in the item.The Sockets get “learned” by the item, it can be changed, however it cannot be moved to a new item.(e.g. You can have an Chest piece from honor. You add haste, crit, and versa into it, as you use it with haste versa for Arena, but haste crit for world activities. You buy the Conquest Chest, you have to buy the Sockets once again from the vendor, and attach it to the new piece)To avoid abusing stat socket changes, it could be limited to be changed in rested areas.PvE Gear in PvPFor people entering PvP (arena, BG, world pvp) ilvl of Non-Conquest gear scales to the same ilvl as Honor gear. The system disables Set bonuses, trinkets, any proc. The gear becomes the full equivalent of an honor gear item with stat gems.PvE Gear in other scenariosThe ilvl for PvE gear in PvE environment would be higher than honor gear (e.g. M0 starts at 170 ilvl) to avoid PvE players forced to play PvP for BiS stats.BattlegroundsWith the above method, people would feel the 10+ilvl difference in battlegrounds between the Conquest and Honor gear, but would not get absolutely stomped by gear.• The PvE players would be able to compete or have fun in BGs too.• PvPers with Conquest gear would still participate at least occasionally for a time, to get the sockets (unless they are fully conquest geared and buying the sockets from Conquest pts)• As a new character, farming a few BGs to get honor gear to begin arenas would be an option to choose instead of M+ farming.ArenasPeople from both PvE and PvP background would start on the same ground with ilvl 160, and fight their way to gather conquest for higher level PvP gear.Re/offspecBy the targetable stats, players have a more flexible way to change spec if the stat priority is different on the other spec, as they would only need to buy the stat sockets and change it. Also more flexible to adjust stat priorities in case of buffs/nerfs.AltsFarming the beginner Honor Gear and stat sockets (to optimize stats) could be easily achived, as the gear the player got from leveling would be scaled to the same ilvl. Also players could participate in arenas without farming the gear, although the player would lack optimized stats.New Season with content patchFollow the formula, scaling starts from world activities.Benefits (assumption)• BGs would have more participants from both PvE, casuals and PvPers side• PvE Players could still do ranked PvP if they want, even in their PvE gear• PvP Players has the opportunity to focus on PvP gearing instead of PvE gearing• PvP Players who does not want to farm Mythics or raids could still do world activities in the standard Honor gear• Participate in both PvE and PvP can be easily managed as PvP does not requires significant amount of gear farming (unlike with PvP Power etc...)• No random PvE proc, stat scaling, trinket etc. in PvP• Targetable stats in PvP gear, that you can get from both Honor or Conquest• Classes can be balanced more easily as stat only differs max 15 ilvl• Alt and Off/respec friendly• More balanced BG experience due to scaling (gear difference would be only 15 ilvl max)Other Changes:• Covenant abilities, legendaries, conduits and all the other systems and borrowed powers are disabled in PvP as it is impossible to balance around them.• Gear management could be integrated into built-in item managements, Socket changes could be some sort of dropdown selection.i know it's just theorycrafting, pricing for the sockets and gear could be calculated to be balanced for time investment, ilvl differences could be changed (e.g. starting honor gear starts at 170etc), and i'm sure there would be some flaws and gaps in the system,so i would like to hear your comments or thoughts.
For me, WoD was the best PVP gearing I have seen in this game. Give us WoD or MoP PvP gearing systems back. Put resilience and or PVP power back on all pvp gear.PvE players can already get the best items for PvE by doing nothing but PvE. What’s the difference in expecting a similar progression path for PvPers?It sucked being forced to pve to get pve gear for pvp.
I don't know if they really understand the idea of PVPers, we want to wear a set of PVP gears to compete with PVP technology rather than who is better equipped.In MOD, I played a lot of classes to pvp, and I had a lot of fun. Obtaining pvp gear is easy. So many people play pvp. At that time, we still had PVP gears.But since LEG, everything has changed. Many of my pvp friends AFK in LEG and in BFA. It's too difficult to play the arena, It takes a lot of time to play PVE to get PVE gear before you play PVP.I am a PVPer. After experiencing all the content of the game, I just want to play the game as I want, I just want to play the arena that I love. However, they are always teaching me to play games and force a pvper to raid. If I don't have good PVE gears, I can't play in the arena at all.A PVPer never requires much good gears, just want a set of PVP gears to compete fairly.In Shadowlands, please just give us real PVP gear, which is different from PVE gear. just hope Pvper wears PVP gear to play PVP, don't want to see OP PVE gears in the arena anymore.Hope there's a good change in shadlands, and hope my pvp friends can come back.
Really good write up and highlights alot of what wrong and right with PvP gear along the years.Like the author says MoP was great for PvP and they had a great balance.The need to increase the ilvl on PvP gear is a must, they should also introduce something like so many games played, won etc gets you this piece of loot.
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