Dragonflight Story Development Interview with Nobbel and Narrative Director Steve Danuser

Posted 2022/11/24 at 1:20 PM by Archimtiros

Highlights

Experiencing the complete World of Warcraft storyline has become more difficult, as new content has not only been added, but also removed or revamped over the years. This is something the team spent a lot of time thinking about, and was the reason for systems like Chromie Time to preserve standalone expansion storylines.

Taking content out of the game is never their preference, and they'd like to find a way to make it persist. Steve wasn't around for the Cataclysm changeover, though these days they're trying harder to keep older content accessible.

The team wants to tell stories that best fit the medium they are in, play to its strengths. The game has a lot of cinematics and dialogue, but is ultimately about gameplay and so they want the story to come through actions, places, and interactions, punctuated by moments of action and emotional cinematics.

Comics and novels are better for getting inside the mind of a character, showing their specific perspective, which is more difficult in game unless you're just sitting and listening to the character monologue. Some people like that, but the team wants the game to be more visceral and gameplay focused.

Along with that, they don't want to use books for major events that won't be seen in game, like repeating defining moments such as Cairne's death or the Trial of Garrosh. They'd prefer that books reveal extra information about the world and its past - in the case of Sylvanas' novel, it did a great job of showing historical insights that would have been difficult to put into the game.

They could have done a better job of showing some of Sylvanas' motivations in game though, and it's a lesson they'll keep in mind going forward in terms of storytelling. It's always a learning process, and they're always trying to improve their craft.

Regarding Dragonflight, they didn't want to do a novel set between the two expansion sthat had a lot of backstory or knowledge that players needed to know in order to go into the new expansion, though they do have a short story coming in the near future which will add more flavor to a specific moment in time - whether you read it or not shouldn't impact your experience with Dragonflight.

The Jailer and the influence of death is seeded throughout Warcraft's history, and you can still play through that previous content and take them for what they are at face value. You can still play WC3 or Wrath Classic and the story stands up with or without the Jailer's machinations in mind. In Shadowlands, they tried to show that Death is a cosmic influence that has touched Azeroth in ways similar to that of Order or the Void - showing that it's a force that wants things. All of these cosmic forces vie to become the dominant force in the universe, and the Jailer's goal in Sepulcher was about doing just that for Death.

While we thwarted the Jailer in Sepulcher, the implications of that story will affect how we look at those cosmic powers and their role in the universe going forward. In that regard, it gives them a lot of fuel for future storylines and hopefully gives fans something interesting to think about.

The Jailer was locked away in the Maw, but had allies in the same way that Denathrius and other allies had agents of their won. His being absent from the screen during WC3 or previous WoW expansions doesn't change the things done by the Legion or the plans Kil'Jaeden put into motion, it just shows that there were other forces who nudged those events along. They purposefully didn't change what happened in previous storylines, instead choosing to weave in additional motivation and machinations behind the scenes.

The books found in the revamped Uldaman dungeon add more texture, but none of it says the Jailer or forces of Death manipulated the Titans, they are still separate storylines.

The First Ones predate and sit above the cosmic forces we've known so far, like the Titans and the Void Lords. The Titans are very ordered, they represent belief in one path and one structure; the Void is the opposite and chaotically represent all things possible. The First Ones have elements of both those things, and although the path we (mortals) have taken wasn't completely predetermined, the First Ones left some things behind that we might be able to use because they had the insight to foresee that mortal would become increasingly important on a cosmic scale.

Perspective and belief was a important, but perhaps easily overlooked, element of the Shadowlands. The attendants of Oribos/Korthia and Enlightened Brokers all have different beliefs in various prophecies and doctrines that they've waited a very long time to see fulfilled, and when you wait that long for something you start to look for ways to make it come true. We see that in the real world all the time when people want a pattern or theory to be true.

Whether these prophecies are exactly true or just a point of view is something players can think about and debate, but in no way has the fate of mortals been prewritten - they're not walking through a script. The magical/cosmic beings are driven by the influence of whatever pantheon they're a part of, to promote, propagate, and make it the most dominant force in the cosmos. That's their fate, but free will is unique to mortal souls, even in the Shadowlands they decide what they're going to do, which powers they're going to embrace. That's why players are able to use so many different powers, they have that choice.

Dragonflight is rooted in terrestrial Azeroth, the stories of the dragons and their connection to the Titans is a big storyline, but it's not directly connected to the cosmic powers or the First Ones. It's more about legacy. Cosmic themes are out there, and they're certainly form future plotlines, but Dragonflight is about what's going on with the Aspects in Azeroth.

As for whether the Old Gods are still a threat to Azeroth, the influence of the Void as embodied by the Old Gods hasn't gone away. While we defeated some of the Old Gods, we beat them on the mortal plane - they're not beings of the mortal plane though, and so if you can extrapolate some of the cosmic rules from previous entities, that should give you an answer or at least something to think about.

Gilneas is not a story that has been forgotten about.

Centaur are native to Azeroth and have been around a long time (since there was a single super continent). The Maruuk tribe of the Dragon Isles are a bit more enlightened than the ones we've dealt with before, choosing not to fight each other to extinction the way those of Kalimdor have done. The storyline of Zaetar with Theradras reintroduced the Centaur to Kalimdor, but those tribes were separate from the Maruuk.

It's not a secret at this point to say that Ysera is involved in the storyline, but her role will need to change. She was awakened through the direct intervention of the Winter Queen, so Ysera wasn't reborn through the normal cycle of Ardenweald. If she had been, maybe she would have returned to Azeroth as she was, but instead she's become bound to the power of life and death - that will all be a part of her storyline in Dragonflight, one that Merithra will also be involved in.

There will be a lot of a Titan stuff playing out in this expansion, because the history of Titans and Dragons are so closely tied together. One of the first plotlines is Alexstrasza trying to re-empower the aspects to face an enemy they only defeated before at full power, but Tyr and the other Titans aren't around anymore. Instead, they're going to examine the Oathstones that were the symbol of the titans bond. Whether or not that works, or if something else will need to be done remains to be seen, but that relationship between the dragons and the Titans are part and parcel of this storyline.

Some of the best villains, both in Warcraft and other media, start with understandable motivations. The Incarnates such as Raszageth... they have a valid point. Their entire philosophy is rooted in the idea that dragons shouldn't be touched by outside influences, that they should be free beings, and that disagreement led to war between them. What makes someone a villain is not necessarily the ideology they have, but the actions they take in service of the ideology. The Incarnates started with an understandable point of view, but ended up in a place where the aspects had to fight against them, not only to preserve their own kingdom, but Azeroth as a whole.

After giving up their powers to defeat Deathwing, the Aspects had a major downturn and have been adrift for awhile, uncertain of their future. What they're doing in Dragonflight, and really what the entire expansion is about, is making them awesome again - helping them find the greatness they once had and to explore their future.

Comment by PeacemoonThe thing about celestial beings; titans, void lords, first ones, death (Jailor isn’t death incarnate right?), is that the mystery is better than the reality. The more we see them, the less awesome they are.

The Titan’s for me were more awesome when we were visiting their old facilities and they were enigmatic and invisible, but power and ancient. Visiting them on Argus took away a lot of their mystique. At least it was fleeting though.

As for the rest of the interview, Sylvanas turning on the Jailor at the end of SoD was one of the worst scenes ever in WoW. Why?Comment by avatar1337Perspective and belief was a important, but perhaps easily overlooked, element of the Shadowlands.Comment by AnckThe jailer was a mistake, a one dimensional bad guy shoehorned in as a pawn for death. He's come and gone and nothing changed. Introducing the first ones as another tier of even more powerful entities sitting above the jailer's boss only further diminishes his role, and it's starting to feel like marvel over here.Comment by LunaedgeExcited to see where he will lead WoW now that he has a blank slate to work with! Everything sounds awesome so far.Comment by skairipaIf they are sticking to the "one cosmic, one Azeroth expansion" plan, I am really curious if we are gonna visit the Seat of the Pantheon again in the next expansion. I am curious what it is like there since Sargeras has been captured, maybe the Void Lords taking advantage of the situation and planning a full invasion(?)
Maybe a Siege of Stormwind would also work in that expansion if Turalyon tries to brainwash entire Stormwind with the Light to build a new Light army againts the Void. Revamped Elwynn Forest, Goldshire, etc.

Then we jump on Velen's ship and fight the Void Lords while riding on Sargeras' shoulder...but when he pulls out the sword from Azeroth and due to insane pain (reopened wounds hurt like hell), Azeroth wakes up.

The last part is a bit meme but at this point I can see anything happening in this gameComment by RubysageThe thing about celestial beings; titans, void lords, first ones, death (Jailor isn’t death incarnate right?), is that the mystery is better than the reality. The more we see them, the less awesome they are.

The Titan’s for me were more awesome when we were visiting their old facilities and they were enigmatic and invisible, but power and ancient. Visiting them on Argus took away a lot of their mystique. At least it was fleeting though.

As for the rest of the interview, Sylvanas turning on the Jailor at the end of SoD was one of the worst scenes ever in WoW. Why?Comment by rivimattPlease no more cosmic robots, not only is it terrible story but it doesn't make sense. If the pantheon of death were all made in zereth mortis and are all actually robot constructs, does that mean the pantheon of order were made in zereth ordum? But also they are world souls, so are they made then dumped in planets, or are the planets themselves made in the zereth? By zovaal turning into a robot when he died, you established that the entire pantheon is 1. Your weird cosmic robots, and 2. For some reason their appearance is just the soul infusing the robot? And when the soul leaves the body it turns back into the base model, so what was Argus? He just died normally, so what is going on with his soul, not to mention that all the titans died before so did their bodies turn into the constructs? Are all planets with a world soul just one big machine? It's just a lazy "ha ha, there's even bigger people behind the scenes pulling the strings" and has terrible repercussions for the lore and story going forward. But hey, maybe I only ever wrote this post bc the jailer manipulated me into doing it.Comment by AtticonPerspective and belief was a important, but perhaps easily overlooked, element of the Shadowlands.Comment by pawpurrNo, Steve, We can't simply play WC3 and take them for what they are. That's not how stories work. When you make a crappy ending, you actually ruin the prior content, even if it was originally good. By writing the Jailer as it was, all the stories surrounding The Lich King(s) become weaker. Not to mention because of Reforged, we actually CAN'T go back and play the game "as it was".

Thank goodness for Nobbel asking the tough questions, even if he dodged most of them.Comment by Redemption86The Jailer was his failure no matter how he tries to spin it, he could of done more across the expansion to explain the Jailer's motivations and to expand on the Jailer as a character overall, he didn't. The Jailer turned out to be a joke that saw lore decades in making retconned to push this villain upon us.

To offer an example of a character done right, Emet Selch from FFXIV. He wasn't an omnipresent character from the start and showed up in the later expansions with limited screentime but when Shadowbringers came they did a good job explaining who he is and his motivations where as in WoW, Steve and his team retconned a significant amount of lore to push a character into the story and failed to expland upon said character.

It's always been my belief Steve and his team cannot write cosmic stories, Shadowlands showed us they cannot yet it seems like something he really wants to keep dragging forward, he's now harping on about the titans and "order magic" which wasn't a thing until he took over, the titans were always associated with the arcane and the chronicles said as much, to which he also tried to dismiss by claiming it was " biased from the titan PoV " I honestly think myself and others will be happier if we just accept that the lore is a lost cause for as long as him and his team hold the reins.Comment by BurkmonHonestly i dont think that the Lore is the worst point. Is that they cannot put them together coherently and it seems that noone is working to give it reason.

Take an example the new "titans are bad" trend. As i could understand is that Titans as a force are fanatically biased towards Order. And as we could see, order is very important for life. It gives purpose, security and stability, so order is generally a good thing vs an unrulled chaos. So, is natural that Titans that are working for them, (not us), would paint themselves as a benefical force and Void as extreme fanaticals. And is also natural for us to first see the benefits of that alliance.

But all in extreme is not a good thing, as extreme order leds to stagnation, and lack of options. So in a sense, the complete order that Titans try to impose would be as bad as the complete chaos of the Old Gods. Maybe the only thing that saved us from an "Order empire" was that the Titans left without finishing their tasks and left minions that could be corrupted / reasoned with or / tempered with necesity when the curse of flesh hit.

As such, Odyn is not a bad, or mad or a bad written character. Is an uncomprensible character because his motivation is beyond our reasoning, because he is fanatically biased towards Order. He is the only Titan creation still working as intended.

It might not be perfect, but with a narrative like that, you can try to encompass all the new information, making sense on why we can see a fault in the Titans behavior without making a retcon of "they were against us all this time". But i cannot fantom why they dont hire a couple of dudes that catch all Lore and try to make sense of it. That would make wonders for the perception of Lore in Wow.Comment by ChaosElixirWith the way they wrote Sylvanas' character into the ground, I guess anything is possible.Comment by WeezullLol acting like he didn't fork the whole thing up with his "first one" double-titan concept, Naaru actually being evil, the Jailer and Nathrezim being behind all of warcraft lore, and the entire Sylvanas debacle. He took the existing warcraft lore that others created before him, and destroyed them in order to make them tools that serve the stories he wants to tell. Stories which are far inferior to the old ones. The man just has no shame. Completely lives in his own world.Comment by LunaedgeLol acting like he didn't fork the whole thing up with his "first one" double-titan concept, the Jailer and Nathrezim being behind all of warcraft lore, and the entire Sylvanas debacle. He took the existing warcraft lore that others created before him, and destroyed them by simply making them tools that serve the stories he wants to tell. The man just has no shame. Completely lives in his own world.Comment by AkriasPlease no more cosmic robots, not only is it terrible story but it doesn't make sense. If the pantheon of death were all made in zereth mortis and are all actually robot constructs, does that mean the pantheon of order were made in zereth ordum? But also they are world souls, so are they made then dumped in planets, or are the planets themselves made in the zereth? By zovaal turning into a robot when he died, you established that the entire pantheon is 1. Your weird cosmic robots, and 2. For some reason their appearance is just the soul infusing the robot? And when the soul leaves the body it turns back into the base model, so what was Argus? He just died normally, so what is going on with his soul, not to mention that all the titans died before so did their bodies turn into the constructs? Are all planets with a world soul just one big machine? It's just a lazy "ha ha, there's even bigger people behind the scenes pulling the strings" and has terrible repercussions for the lore and story going forward. But hey, maybe I only ever wrote this post bc the jailer manipulated me into doing it.Comment by LunaedgeWhy would the Eternals being infused robot means that it's also the case for the Pantheon ? It as been stated for quite some times now that Titans are born from world souls, and nothing in Zereth Mortis contradict that. We don't know anything about Zereth Ordos, and definitely not his purpose.which doesn't mean they are robots btw!Bereft of the cosmic spirits of the Eternal Ones, these incomplete host bodies can only carry out their base directives without mercy or compassion.Comment by Neek23Lol acting like he didn't fork the whole thing up with his "first one" double-titan concept, the Jailer and Nathrezim being behind all of warcraft lore, and the entire Sylvanas debacle. He took the existing warcraft lore that others created before him, and destroyed them by simply making them tools that serve the stories he wants to tell. The man just has no shame. Completely lives in his own world.Comment by MongYiiThey should make a grand library of Azeroth or something that is a nuetral zone run by they kirin tor, and the two archaeological groups and just have books about all of the history of different characters and events and such so you could just go and read about it in game ... that’d be a super awesome way to incorporate all the worlds knowledge in a RP friendly way.Comment by bluebird91Why would the Eternals being infused robot means that it's also the case for the Pantheon ? It as been stated for quite some times now that Titans are born from world souls, and nothing in Zereth Mortis contradict that. We don't know anything about Zereth Ordos, and definitely not his purpose.Comment by Redemption86Lol at people actually defending Danuser, last I checked it wasn't Afrasabi who retconned the dreadlords, the chronicles by claiming it's " unreliable and from the titan PoV " he wasn't the one who refused to elaborate on the Jailer and develop the character and trying to shove the Jailer in as the big bad behind everything, it's indefencibly poor storytelling, don't blame Afrasabi, the guys been gone for years now.

Afarasabi makes for a great scapegoat to defend Danuser and his teams screw ups, while Afarasabi might be a clown he's not responsible for the steaming pile of a mess that came from Shadowlands, Danuser is credited as the Lead Narrative Designer btw, sure things may have been laid out over the years I don't doubt that but why was the Jailer not expanded upon if you wanted to uproot decades of lore to push him into the story? Is that Afrasabi's fault? No, it's Steve's and his team, they had time to adapt and they didn't.

I have no confidence in Dragonflight especially when they're choosing to bring back Ysera rather than continue developing Merithra as her successor, Anachronos is no where to be seen either, the heir of the bronze flight btw and I'd be very very surprised if Steve and friends even knew who Anachronos was add Kirygosa in there as well, daughter of Malygos, another forgotten dragon by the narrative team.

When the DF narrative inevitably crashes I'd love to see people blame Afrasabi then.