Breaking World of Warcraft: Class Writers Chat About 9.2 PTR, New M+ Affix, Raid Testing

Live Posted 2022/02/13 at 10:53 PM by Paryah

MO Cast'sBreaking Wow

Breaking World of Warcraft goes in deep on the new 9.2 mythic plus affix with all it’s issues, updates and possible solutions! Not only that but together with our guests, Mandl, Publik, Guiltyas, Wordup and Panthea we also discuss the new raid, with all the bosses available for testing, the new setting, the constant changes and many more juicy topics so if you like our little world of warcraft podcast, be sure to subscribe and hit the comments to let us know what you think :)

NEW M+ affix

Tazavesh in m+

Too FEW Dungeons?

9.2 Raid

9.2 is GOOD!

Last 3 bosses & Duo Lego

1 year patch, no 9.2.5?

M+ Affix:

Overview of how it works
Idea really good
Trigger design needs improvement

Implication of routing (PuGs will probs just slam the haste one all the time)
Mists example where you’re now forced to do the hardest pack in dungeon to activate the buff
Target caps: +3 mobs
Relic killing issue - rng kills

Chain harvest crit = 70% of a mob
Fix: explosive treatment? Squad leader treatment?

Auto power not so fun. Items? Extra action button?

Buff will always be on the opener of bosses
Interactable relics?
Necrotic wake buttons?
Stackable relics + harder robot?
1 relic per pack would make everything easier but reduce the playmaking potential

DR relic kinda shit and likely skipped like sogg
Kiss/curse not so good - making packs already harder can backfire
Buff “preference”

CDR really good to a breakpoint

Maybe not a good affix to do after 2 seasons of route stagnation? Do people want the routes to change?
Dungeon design has shoehorned affix design (mists labyrinth. Let all the doors be openable in combat).
If activatable you can put relics in weak packs to make them stronger and risk-reward people into killing harder packs with the buffs. MASSIVELY increases scope and potential, deepen routes, and allow tactical plays to shine
Putting all the relics in the hardest packs to encourage people to play them means people will just skip them even more
Mobs worth 0% tend to be skipped. Incentive

Generic M+:

Tazavesh funsies (8min so’leah)
Cycle of content should not be tied to the raid. Taz was ready months ago.
SL already had the lowest number of dungeons out of any M+. Stale and weak for M+ fun. Trickle-feeding a dungeon per patch would be better.
Add 2 legion dungeons to the season for score maybe? Allows you to recycle old fun content
Legion M+ was really fun but wasted potential
All it takes for a season to be memorable is 1 more dungeon
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/dungeons-designed-for-m/1163196
Less railroad dungeons pls
Challenge mode M+?Generates communities.
Take scenarios and turn them into dungeons (and then M+). Don’t like to group? Take NPCs. HUGE amount of extra content for everyone

Raid:

Random boss name generator? Impossible to pronounce
3 bosses not testable - one boss very among us (LFR/normal killer)
Lots of reused hexagon platforms
Boss variance is good enough to have different profiles for encounters
First boss: lots of trash -> boss

More thematically cohesive than sanctum
Less emo, more vibrant than sanctum
GIGANTIC boss arenas + lots of movement (telegraphed, not random)
Get at least one warlock
Bosses keep changing between tests

Good thing. You get to see the fine-tuning and refinement process by looking at spell data/dungeon journal, gives a glimpse into the intent of bosses. Also refreshes tuning week on week
Brand new mechanics being added compared to previous raids. Little recycling
More focused?
They were tweaking mid-boss tests - watching and with actual devs, not just GMs

9.2 feels like a much more iterative process rather than having a rushed, half-baked and essentially directionless patch such as 9.1. Devs watching, iterating, talking to the community like they have this patch cycle is amazing.
Retroactive trinket changes. SoD ress trinket is now a cheat, not a ress (allowed you to break mechanics). Go grab it before it goes away, stronger version of al’ar with shorter CD.
9.2 is a patch they clearly care about. The initial version of 9.2 PTR was about the same as 9.1, but it was iterated on really aggressively.
Shoutout to scarizard
RWF double leggo thing, disappointment because different comp class stuff

Balance up the wazoo
Relief v. happiness
Losing dom sockets => double leggo straight into the new raid
Makes so much more sense to not have to auto-gimp yourself for 3-4 weeks because it’ll suck less later
Solution would be to just go into mythic week with it, not 3-4 weeks into the raid
Some covenant leggos enable damage profiles as well as just damage. Without those there’s some real weakness before it.
The raid gets more fun when you have more fun immediately
PITA to have to instantly have to rework guides 4 weeks in or disclaimer “btw you’ll be shit”

1 year trickle sucks
Why not take a dungeon from next xpac as “teaser” content during current xpac. Instant break to monotony and nothing new: UBRS between mop and wod, theramore scenario during cata etc. Good way to get people hooked

MandlPantheaWordupGuiltyasMarcelian & FlamePublikYouTube

Comment by Manbearloganwait did these guys even run tazavesh. hylbrand is the first boss of second m+ wing and they dont have like any of the boss mechanics numbers right.Comment by DenchaNo 9.2.5?
Isn't it already confirm cross-faction things on 9.2.5?Comment by EyebeamGoBrrrIn M+ the 2nd half of the dungeon begins with Hylbrand as the 1st boss. The bosses are split 5/3 when they split the dungeon for m+Comment by husky2449Consider making a category for articles called "class writer bs" that we can untick so we never have to see "class writer" articles again.

The amount of useless spam articles we get from those writers is getting out of hand since SL begun.

I am here for data, not to sort through pointless ""class writer"" articles with pointless opinions.Comment by Troy2SlickNo 9.2.5?
Isn't it already confirm cross-faction things on 9.2.5?Comment by Aphelyite"Take scenarios and turn them into dungeons (and then M+). Don’t like to group? Take NPCs. HUGE amount of extra content for everyone"Comment by YesitisThe tank trinket that changes is "Weave of Warped Fates?"
and when do they change it? right now it's still an anhkComment by Tredainyeah isn't the new pvp arena already announced for 9.2.5?Comment by NymrohdHonestly I think each xpac should start with LESS dungeons (say 6) to make it easier to learn them and then add one dungeon in each patch (or add more megadungeons and then split them).

I honestly really enjoy megadungeons. Imo it would be interesting if at some point they would even consider consolidating instanced content and releasing raids in both Raid and Megadungeon format, which would mean raids would eventually become parts of M+ one patch later. Completely different mechanics for the dungeon but it would free so much space in the art team to do other things (revamp old zones maybe).

And I do hope at some point they reconsider the focus on the route aspect of M+. It is one of the biggest barriers to entry when it comes to tanking M+ (memorizing all the routes, including the changes depending on affixes). A linear route that does not give you full clear with loads of side passages and rooms where you get to choose which to clear would make M+ much more dynamic and let players adjust to what pulls are optimal for their group.Comment by Nymrohd"Take scenarios and turn them into dungeons (and then M+). Don’t like to group? Take NPCs. HUGE amount of extra content for everyone"Comment by IceWolfDK"Take scenarios and turn them into dungeons (and then M+). Don’t like to group? Take NPCs. HUGE amount of extra content for everyone"Comment by MandlFirst off, apologies for the rough notes, I did not have time to flesh them out this time due to way too many other things happening all at once. these were the "live notes" I took during the podcast :-(

wait did these guys even run tazavesh. hylbrand is the first boss of second m+ wing and they dont have like any of the boss mechanics numbers right.The tank trinket that changes is "Weave of Warped Fates?"
and when do they change it? right now it's still an anhkComment by Nymrohd"Take scenarios and turn them into dungeons (and then M+). Don’t like to group? Take NPCs. HUGE amount of extra content for everyone"Comment by cparle87Little tip. If you need to censor your own articles best just to leave the thing out. Throwing in a subjective opinion, especially a vulgar one, in a news article is very unprofessional.Comment by MandlLittle tip. If you need to censor your own articles best just to leave the thing out. Throwing in a subjective opinion, especially a vulgar one, in a news article is very unprofessional.Comment by Mandl"Take scenarios and turn them into dungeons (and then M+). Don’t like to group? Take NPCs. HUGE amount of extra content for everyone"

They need it to progress further (attunements were very firmly in that list)

They see the rewards as something worth seeking (this is loot table, but could also be quest rewards, score, or even the satchel. We'll come back to the satchel in a minute)

They just like the content

ultraallallSatchel of Savage MysteriesSatchel of Savage MysteriesMisty Satchel of Exotic Mysterieshttps://www.warcraftmounts.com/calltoarms.php

There is still no way to know when you're taking somebody who will give your group bonus valor. Without this, and with the penalty of key depletion as a very real possibility, why would you ever bring a lowbie?

There's a gigantic chasm between what seems to be viewed as "casual" content (random matchmade dungeons, WQs, non-rated PvP) and even the lowest tier of non-matchmade content, or even LFR itself. To give you a simple example, Sanctum LFR's item level requirement average, is 195. Random HC loot is 197. To be able to get in, you're going to need a majority of slots covered - and sure, for alts, we can just go and drop some stygia on korthia tokens, but that's not the case for new players. This, however, is also a difficult balance as the only reason for random heroics to be done right now is to get over that hurdle. Remove the hurdle, and the entire mode gets killed.

enjoymentreliefComment by VSozonovWe really need way more dungeons so m+ could feel fresh for longer. Don't even think about releasing expansion with less than 10 dungeons and then add 1 dungeon every patch. Also mega dungeons should be in m+ right away or at least in a .5 patch instead of waiting a whole patch. At the end of the expansion we should have at least 14-15 dungeons, Shadowlands was just sad when it comes to dungeons quantity especially since most of them were reused assets. Things like Mists, Necrotic Wake, Plaguefall or Halls are all part of the regular zones so I'm sure it didn't take them that long to make them. Reusing assets is fine but at least make more dungeons, like I said 14-15 per expansion.Comment by NymrohdThe rewards would also need to be higher than other options btw. So gear rewards fast become pointless once you can get the same or better ilvl in other content that also may have other rewards. Korthia is a good example; you could just upgrade Korthia gear on ALL slots to a much higher ilvl than Heroic dungeons/Base Mythic Dungeons and LFR (and if you invested enough time, more than Normal raids even).
And catchup has pretty much always had better sources than Heroic Dungeons. Even if you don't have a different main to feed you gear, grinding for profession gear (Fairly viable for multiple slots) and in the current paradigm, farming rares can be a much better way to gear alts to a decent ilvl. Just targeting the proper rares in the Maw and Korthia can be enough to gear an alt fast since gear drops from rares are not actually scarce and you can even target specific slots and stat lines far better than you can from tokens (trinkets being the only pain point, as they have always been for catchup).

The Satchel was indeed a decent reward though mostly for tanks/healers who got call to arms frequently. Blizzard has been trying to drain away the gold from the WoD/Legion period (and I think SL has probably been the biggest gold drain in WoW's history, what with the insane price of crafting reagents and the additional traffic in the AH for very high value items) so I do not see something like the Satchel, which even before AH value still brought a lot of gold to the system, coming back. A better long term system imo was the MoP valor system. You always wanted Valor and MoP allowed you to cap Valor by doing ANYTHING and even gave a great incentive to valor cap alts by doubling on their Valor gains once one character was capped (and gave double rep and massive rep tokens through rares. MoP was good for alts from 5.1 on). Casuals could use the Valor for gear, hardcore players could use the Valor for upgrading gear and everyone was kept busy.

Honestly I still think Blizzard needs to completely rework the reward track and attempt at least for one expansion to fully split the reward tracks by content type. There have been consistent attempts to split the PvP track from the PvE, often fairly effectively. At the current point in time I'd say the game has FOUR separate tracks for players (PvP, Raids, M+ AND World content). So much could be fixed by making gear that works best in its specific track.Comment by NymrohdWe really need way more dungeons so m+ could feel fresh for longer. Don't even think about releasing expansion with less than 10 dungeons and then add 1 dungeon every patch. Also mega dungeons should be in m+ right away or at least in a .5 patch instead of waiting a whole patch. At the end of the expansion we should have at least 14-15 dungeons, Shadowlands was just sad when it comes to dungeons quantity especially since most of them were reused assets. Things like Mists, Necrotic Wake, Plaguefall or Halls are all part of the regular zones so I'm sure it didn't take them that long to make them. Reusing assets is fine but at least make more dungeons, like I said 14-15 per expansion.Comment by FrawtariusWe really need way more dungeons so m+ could feel fresh for longer. Don't even think about releasing expansion with less than 10 dungeons and then add 1 dungeon every patch. Also mega dungeons should be in m+ right away or at least in a .5 patch instead of waiting a whole patch. At the end of the expansion we should have at least 14-15 dungeons, Shadowlands was just sad when it comes to dungeons quantity especially since most of them were reused assets. Things like Mists, Necrotic Wake, Plaguefall or Halls are all part of the regular zones so I'm sure it didn't take them that long to make them. Reusing assets is fine but at least make more dungeons, like I said 14-15 per expansion.reward