*** EDIT: THE DEFENSE PORTION OF THIS OLD POST IS NOW OBSOLETE, ITEM STATS HAVE CHANGED TO DODGE+PARRY, ALL COMES DOWN TO PARRY BEING USELESS TO A DRUID, SO ONLY TAKE THE DODGE INTO THE PICTURE ***

Let's see avoidance wise then, before people downrate kolumb's comment even more.. back to tanking basics:

1 point of defense gives:

0.04% chance to be missed (miss%)
0.04% chance to dodge (dodge%)
0.04% chance to parry (parry%)
0.04% chance to block (block%)

Given that Warriors and Paladins can do all of the above,
Death Knights can do all of the above apart from block,
and Druids can only be missed or dodge an attack,

This means that 1 defense:

Gives 0.12% chance to not be hit if you're a Warrior, Paladin or Death Knight.
Gives 0.08% chance to not be hit if you're a Druid.
Gives 0.04% chance to absorb damage equal to your shield block value if you're a Warrior or Paladin.

Going back to the necklace, this means that, as kolumb just stated, the parry is completely wasted on a Druid, and the 19 emblem costing ilevel 226 necklace, has more avoidance! If you use the emblem necklace, you gain:

1.22 defense, which is about 0.10% avoidance (0.0488% chance to be missed and 0.0488% chance to dodge an attack)
0.20% chance to dodge
1.28% chance to hit your targets

In exchange for the following stats on this item:

0.71% chance to parry
6 stamina
23 strength

So, in the end it comes down to:

You can't parry anyway.
Is 6 stamina worth losing 0.30% chance to not get hit at all?
Are you hitcapped? Is 23 strength more valuable to you then actually hitting your target so you can make use of the strength?

By all means, roll on the necklace if you need it, but in my opinion, the emblem necklace, lower level or not, is more useful to druids then this one. I don't think you'd be doing yourself a favor by using this drop over the emblem one.

-edit- I'm aware of diminishing returns and intentionally left them out as I don't think they contribute much and are too complex to explain or go into detail for.

Комментарий от 118044

So, I just run H-HOR and this drops at the end. Of course I was using the LFG tool, and guess what? The loot system won't let me roll need on it! (I was on an alt warrior and he had a iLvL 200 neck). A warlock wins and insta-leaves group - even after I asked nicely if whoever won the greed roll would pass it to me. What a retarded system Blizzard came up with.

Комментарий от asloversgo

How dare someone make a necklace out of Omanyte?

Комментарий от 427824

I have to share some rage as well.

Tanked H HoR 15 times and this item never dropped. Then a 16th time earlier today, and it finally dropped! ... and some stupid pally rolled it on it (as well as a druid, who was rolling on it so he could give it to me).

I kinda wish people who don't have the required role for certain items be locked to greed :/.

Комментарий от 368272

Wait let me see if I got this straight. We see several posts correctly pointing it this is not an upgrade for bears, but is good for paladins, warriors, and death knights. Then we see a post from a bear complaining that (s)he had to roll against a "stupid" paladin - and lost.

Did I get that correctly?

Then to make matters even more ridiculous said poster then implies that the paladin should have been *prevented* from rolling on it because they are a paladin. Sure, said poster said "role" but the implication is that paladins aren't tanks.

You can't base things on the role someone has when they get to the dungeon with the exception of DPS-only classes. For example when I play my priest I select Heals and DPS, my Paladin I select Heals and Tank. Me getting selected to heal may be what got you into the dungeon. Why should I be penalized and not allowed to roll need on gear I need just because I was made Heals in order for a group to be made faster, or at all? I shouldn't. If Blizzard somehow limited you only rolling on gear that suited the role you are in you will see a lot less tanks and healers, and much longer queues.

I don't think you understood that post correctly: he never said he was a bear tank. He said a druid (probably a friend of him) also rolled on the item to be able to give it to him in case he (the druid) would win it.

Regarding the second part of your post, I strongly disagree: even if you could potentially tank/heal/dps an instance you should only roll on items that match the role the system "decided" for you.
If you are really after a certain piece of gear, then sign in for the role that corresponds to it: you want a tanking item? Then tank the instance. Or you can always run with friends who don't need that item.

And I think that what makes queues longer it dps rolling on tanking items that the actual tank is needing.

Комментарий от 436924

I'm normally not into doing this sort of thing, but this just really got me angry:

I was tanking Heroic Halls of Reflection tonight, using the LFG system, and this drops after the Lich King Ramp event, and as the tank, I need on it, because I do. However a DPS Death Knight (who I looked up on the Armory - who has not one but TWO Blood specs, neither of which I would see as very suitable for tanking) also need rolls on it, after I say I am going to be needing on it as the tank. He/she wins the roll, and when I asked him/her to explain, they drop group and of course, disappeared.

If any one of you are on the Bleeding Hallow server, and know of or hang out with a Death Knight called Messoris in the Soldiers of Carnage guild, he/she is a ninja, and stole a decent upgrade item from me, for no apparent good reason that I can see.

Комментарий от aFluffyFartBall

I REALLY NEED THIS but it never drops...

Комментарий от 81027

im about ready to kill a kitten for everytime i run this place and it doesnt drop.

Комментарий от falcov

No, you didn't. The guy has a warrior in his character list and he said "a druid rolled on it as well -- in order to give it to me." The warrior lost a roll to a pally, and his druid friend (presumably healing or dpsing) rolled need on it too in hopes of winning the roll and giving it to the warrior. So him $%^&*ing about losing that piece of gear to a ret pally is at least somewhat warranted.

Regardless of whether or not that dps paladin "should" have rolled is pretty inconsequential however.. it's a pug therefore there are no steadfast rules. One of the first times I ran reg HoR that tanking cloak dropped when I was still wearing the Wyrmrest cloak, so that was a pretty hefty upgrade for me.. I was pretty taken aback when the paladin needed it as well and won. So I dealt with it in typical pug fashion for the paladin who wanted to build his tank set: I let him tank the rest of the run. I did the same thing when a DK needed Lucky Old Sun the one time it dropped of 24 Bronjahm kills.

At the same time, if a random guy just randomly rolls on a piece of tank gear even if he's been dpsing the whole run, I'll be pretty #$%^ed off about that if it's an upgrade for me when I'm tanking. But if the dpser is polite enough to ask "Can I need that too for my tank set?" I'll probably nto mind him rolling on it assuming I wouldn't be going from a 187 blue to a 219 epic.. also assuming the person who asks hasn't been a #$%^ until that point.

But, as I mentioned earlier, all of these loot rules posts are pretty meaningless.

I think about it like this -- the rest of the group doesn't give a crap about me.. why should I give a crap about them? ;) As a tank my queue times are pretty much instant even if I do have to wait 10 minutes for the dungeon finder debuff to wear off.

Комментарий от ajyl

A friend and I were runnin the Pit with a PUG when battered hilt dropped. Of course, everyone rolled need. A warrior won the roll. My friend, the tank, asked the warrior since he had won the hilt and was already carrying the Beheader, if the Beheader dropped, would he pass so I could get it. He said sure, but when, sure enough, the Beheader dropped he rolled need, won that as well, and before anybody could say anything, he bailed. Asking doesn't mean the ninja will do what he says. As I was building a tank set, if something came up, I would ask before rolling need and wait. If anyone, tank or no, said they needed, I would pass as simple courtesy. I figure something else will come along, or that item will come up again. BTW, four runs through the Pit later, I won the roll for the battered hilt.

Комментарий от 596761

Blizzard could easily avoid all that problem by setting 2 different Need. Main Spec and Off spec Need. Also making sure that you can't roll need on an item that you already have. Just like the trinkets in reg/heroic ToC.

I once opened a ticket becouse my tank friend got "ninjaed" by the healer and Blizzard actually support the bs that anyone can roll in an item they can use even if it is not their current role. So... Yeah... That pally guy that has never healed before and may never heal can roll on a healing item you need as upgrade becouse he may or may not try healing in the next few days... Then he simply sell the item after a while, and you are still trying to get that upgrade.

Комментарий от benefactors

Weeeell, if you pug raids frequently, and the loot master goes against loot rules as described in raid chat, you'd know that submitting a ticket about THAT form of ninja-ing works.

The problem with heroics and ninjas in them is a twofold issue:

1) They are heroics, and as such, they can be run everyday. The gear that drops will drop far more frequently than most raid encounters. As such, you are more likely to encounter that piece of gear again within a shorter timespan.

2) So many people are running heroics daily, Blizzard would be overwhelmed by looking in to each and every complaint about ninjas. Ninja-ing in raids happens far less frequently, and typically deals with much better gear, so it is easier to look into these complaints.

But yeah, I've been the victim of heroic ninjas many times. My advice would be to just get over it as quickly as you can and try to continue having fun playing the game.

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