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The Euthyphro Dilemma
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184848
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127599
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Hyperspacerebel
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Is good commanded by God because it is good, or is it good because it is commanded by God?
Neither. God is the Good. Solves both dilemmas. He can't will anything but good because that would be to deny his essence.
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Hyperspacerebel
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Is good commanded by God because it is good, or
is it good because it is commanded by God?
If you take the latter: God's will defines what morality is and leaves us asking "why is it God's will?" Is it a completely arbitrary thing? Could murder and sodomy have been good if God had willed it so?
1. Alright, first off I'd like to state that I'm
very
against religion, but for the purposes of this thread, I'll take on a Christian-belief, though holding my own morals in the same way.
2. Yes, because if all humans are/were created by God, then he must have created some as homosexuals, for whatever His reason may be. Maybe to slow down population growth slightly so we don't ravage His world so quickly.
3.If you wanna get into murder, well, Caine & Able (sp?) was the first murder, and for all we know, it was in God's will that Caine slaughter his brother.
People say "God works in mysterious ways", so why not this?
4. And if you say Homosexuals & Murderers are the creation of the Devil, I ask you; Who created Lucifer?
1. Well make sure you know what you're talking about then.
2. That doesn't logically follow so I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at.
3. I'm guessing you haven't read Genesis.
4. Lucifer was the most beautiful and perfect of the angels, fyi.
God creates the person, not the sin.
393249
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201822
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Skyfire
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Hmm, I wonder if I should grab my copy of Euthyphro off the shelf... :)
I once heard someone say that God is like a kid with a magnifying glass, and the people are his ants, don't remember where I heard it but I still like that saying.
Bruce Almighty
Septimus
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Gods gave us the choice to make good or bad decisions.
I don't really have an answer for the actual question, but I will post one after thinking about it.
Queggy
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God is Good. The whole question is like, "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" God has always been here and will always be here. Therefore since God is Good, and God has always been here and will always be here, then Good has always been here and will always be here.
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TheMediator
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I suppose you have to ask yourself, what would good be without evil? That is likely the origin of the phrase "God works in mysterious ways", as he must create evil to be overcome to truly show the good. The same is true for many other things about our world : what is compassion without cruelty, what is courage without cowardice? With these conflicting values, God can test his people's love for him. If one would turn his back on God when things weren't going his way, does he truly love God?
I'm not really religious, but I suppose that's my take on it.
Hyperspacerebel
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2. How doesn't it make sense? God creates people. People have too much sex. More people on Earth. Too many people. Population's getting too big, too big for Earth's resources. God creates some Humans to be homosexual, because obviously, gays & lesbians don't reproduce, so a generation ends with them. Additionally, they can adopt children, further helping, 'cause well, who wants orphans to stay orphans?
If not for population reasons, maybe He has a different one. Maybe just for a more diverse group of people. Maybe for teh lulz.
Additionally, homosexuality has shown up in almost all
mammals
.
Particularly in Dolphins &
Penguins
.
Here's your original statement:
If all humans are/were created by God
then he must have created some as homosexuals.
The only way that logically works is if God is homosexual. As it turns out he neither straight nor gay.
Penguin
.
3. Genesis? I haven't read any of it. Like, anything from the Bible. I'm Athiest, I pick up what I need to bull!@#$ with Christians, about it.
Then your "and for all we know..." argument seems a bit presumptious, eh?
4. Thought that was Michael? Either way, Lucifer was an Archangel. Archangels, like everything else, are/were creations of God. So even if Lucifer created homosexuality, God created Satan (Lucifer, the Devil, whatever), so in a round-about way, God created Homosexuality.
No, it was Lucifer. No, Lucifer was not an Archangel. Yes, he was created by God. No, he did not create homosexuality.
kattib
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Rebel what part of genesis are you refering to? I have a tanakh (translated old testament and a few other document, a jewish text) on hand somewhere in my house so I could always check out what you are refering to
Hyperspacerebel
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His statement that: "and for all we know, it was in God's will that
Caine
Cain slaughter his brother."
Genesis 4:11-12
And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
καὶ νῦν ἐπικατάρατος σὺ ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς ἣ ἔχανεν τὸ στόμα αὐτῆς δέξασθαι τὸ αἷμα τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ σου ἐκ τῆς χειρός σου ὅτι ἐργᾷ τὴν γῆν καὶ οὐ προσθήσει τὴν ἰσχὺν αὐτῆς δοῦναί σοι στένων καὶ τρέμων ἔσῃ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς
וְעַתָּה, אָרוּר אָתָּה, מִן-הָאֲדָמָה אֲשֶׁר פָּצְתָה אֶת-פִּיהָ, לָקַחַת אֶת-דְּמֵי אָחִיךָ מִיָּדֶךָ.
כִּי תַעֲבֹד אֶת-הָאֲדָמָה, לֹא-תֹסֵף תֵּת-כֹּחָהּ לָךְ; נָע וָנָד, תִּהְיֶה בָאָרֶץ
I honestly don't think you need to be a bible scholar to see his assumption is completely wrong.
Edit: The Greek font here sucks :P
Queggy
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And you have to remember that God gave us free will too.
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TheMediator
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Are you really claiming that if one looks at the facts of life on their own, that he would believe in the existence of your God? LoL, get the %^&* out, if that were true then I'm sure religious people would have settled on one religion by now.
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