[4.0.1] Is it me or is Hunter's DPS compared to other classes horrible?

Rilgon의 게시글

That was before. Now it's 1111111111111111111111. 98% damage from Arcane Blast.

BM hunters in tBC had to actually look online (or ask around in-game) and find a macro.

That's it. I'm going to suggest to every child in the game to try rerolling as an arcane mage.

Yes, and all they did was scroll their mousewheel to top DPS.

Arcane Mages, at the very least, have to properly manage and synchronize cooldowns, play to the power of Mana Adept, balance their usage against their mana-restoring cooldowns, etc.

People who are "hurr arc mages r ez" do not have an Arcane Mage at any reasonable gear/play level.

Kill Shot needed the nerf, tbh.

No it didn't.

Mudman의 게시글

I miss my 40+k Kill Shots, Armor Pen will be sorely missed. I run around with nearly a 6300 gearscore and my DPS has been lower on fights I usually dominated. But as Fulgurah stated, it's primarily on the movement intensive fights. Reforging most of my gear into Mastery helped me make up for this and I was on average only down about 800 DPS on the early ICC and RS encounters.

Here's my Marrowgar parses:
pre-patch
post-patch

You'll see our Warlocks and Shadow Priests were retarded OP the day after the patch and it was my first time ever using focus so I probably could have pushed over 10k if I had more time on a dummy before the raid. We had a lot of deaths on the post-patch attempt because healers were still feeling out their new abilities, but we still had a record kill time.

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HoleofArt의 게시글

From a full week of ICC Heroics (11/12 clear), I'll state a few facts I found:

These aren't facts.

- Single target DPS as a raid (for my guild at least) has jumped significantly. It got to the point where we realized that the most effective strat for Heroic Sindragosa was merely to nuke her under 35% and ignore all ice blocks/clearing stacks. Our kill was 2.5 minutes faster than our previous weeks. We also managed to push Putricide, without hero, to transition before the first ooze finished spawning.
Single target dps IS up. Guess who? Casters.
(You needed BL to transition PP?)

- Raid AoE DPS now sucks. Immensely. For instance, our strategy on Heroic LDW will require some fine-tuning, as we previously just grouped everything up in front of the boss and cleaved/AoE'ed our way to victory. This now takes a lot more time and effort than it probably should.
Your strat was bad from the get go, but yes, AoE dps is down (for hunters.) DKs, Warlocks, Mages, and Shadow Priests are actually doing better. But hey.

- Hunter DPS is fine. DEPENDING ON THE FIGHT (please note this caveat), Hunter DPS has improved.

Umm.. no. We aren't fine. Sorry. Look at all the logs of top guilds right now with Hunters. Guess who's near the bottom above tanks? lolololol.

- If the numbers were close to final, I'd say we would deserve a small-ish buff. But, since this is a transition period and nearly every guild that wanted to progress already has, I'd say there's not much to complain about.
Yeah, it's not like we have 8 more raiding weeks or anything.
owait. It's just annoying that we're this bad atm. (We aren't all that at 85, either. Not much changes. We go from terrible to meh.)

- FWIW, rogues need a buff, too.
I agree, but not as badly as we do. Combat rogues just have to go Assasination.

I said SHORT OF ICC 25 HEROIC, you might try reading first, and on Norgannon there are NOT that many hunters better geared, and those few who are, are not THAT much better geared That's because we all left.
Hurr.

Kill Shot needed the nerf, tbh
No, it didn't. Stop claiming it does. Congrats, Hunters get an ability that hits hard during the last 1/5th of a boss fight (the "execute phase"). You've never seen Soul Fire, have you? Howabout Ferocious Bite? They hit that hard all the time. Stop spreading bull$%^&.

HoleofArt의 게시글

Been noticing something as I'm going over logs. Hunters who were pulling lower dps (pre 4.0), had a increase.

Based on your wording, it sounds like with the current state of the Hunter class (pretty much all our abilities hit for the same amount now) you can spam any button, compared to before, where if you didn't have your priority right, you were SoL.

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Fulgurah의 게시글

I love people like HoleofArt. Anal retentive to all get out and ragging on people trying to add substance to the conversation. I've linked to World of Logs before and will do so again as a means to add to the discussion here. I'd suggest you do something constructive yourself.

As far as your points, we'll just knock them out:

(1) You're right; facts as I saw them (most of them were pretty uncontroversial), but observations would have been a better word there.

(2) I was making general points, not commenting on casters DPS. Yes, caster DPS is higher (in all cases), while melee DPS has stayed the same for the most part. And no, we never used Heroism in P1 of Putricide, nor will we ever. As I stated, he transitioned before the first slime was spawned; in fact, right after his cast of that slime. I never said my guild was the greatest, but that was a concrete example of just how much single target DPS raid-wide is up. This post is about other classes when compared to Hunters, and so I thought this was a valid point.

(3) I don't see how our strat was bad from the get-go, considering it is the general strategy done by numerous top-end guilds and has never failed us from the beginning of attempts on it. While you're trolling, you should suggest a better one. Also, yes, Frost DK AoE is up majorly, to a laughable degree.

(4) Any hunter "near the bottom by the tanks" is simply doing it wrong. Can you please link to the logs from these guilds that show hunters that low? To get you started, I'll link to some top guilds and you can look for the hunters. Note how they're not at the bottom:

Exodus - World 21 H LK - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7se01ig250m4h3oy/
Vodka - World 23 - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r50vxnrwkupab035/
Premonition - World 9 - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tryslqttaq2k3rxm/

Again, please show a parse from a "top guild" that shows a hunter "near the bottom with the tanks."

(5) I think all these parses show that we're not "that bad." Did we get wtfbuffed like some casters? No. Did we get wtfnerfed like some melee (before the hot fix buffs)? No. And we also have an entirely new focus system to learn AND nearly all of our shots are made to scale well at 85. Right now on Beta, for instance, Survival Hunters are near the top of DPS meters on every fight.

(6) I don't play a rogue, but I can only comment on some of the parses I saw and my own raids experience. Rogues are down way more than we supposedly are.

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HoleofArt의 게시글

Fulgurah의 게시글

Nonsense

I'm done with you. You didn't disprove anything I said.

If you noticed, Kripparrian only pulled 17.89k in full BiS gear on Festergut. I've pulled 17.4k dps in my gear on H Festergut pre-4.0.1.
He should be pulling closer to 20k. He isn't.
I would say that's a significant drop. Then you look at his total damage and it's also terrible.

Your point further proved mine. GG?

I'm sorry, but you can't make one point and then claim you made another point.

You said, specifically, that hunter DPS was "near the bottom with the tanks." You can't prove this, because it's not true. I asked for one example of this, and you can't provide it.

Also, look back at Kripp's other parses. The week previous, he did 17.3k on Festergut. This week, he did 17.9k.

In addition, "overall damage" is a stupid way to look at parses, as it includes all trash. And, as you know, Hunter AoE is complete junk. If, however, you're intelligent and look at ONLY boss kills, his DPS was 15.6k on all kills this week, and 15.4k last week.

Your point is invalid and wrong.

Edit: Also, I LOVE your conjecture about what DPS Kripp "should" be doing. This is complete and utter junk. If you're saying that Hunter DPS is currently lower than what you (and I) THINK it should be, then I agree. But to say that he "should" have a 3k DPS increase because that's the number you pulled out of your ass doesn't mean that hunter DPS is broken if Kripp didn't have that DPS increase.

xcrunr1647의 게시글

Seems like, in general, bad players had their DPS go up. This makes sense seeing how stupid our rotation is now. Hunters are not fine.

^this

/thread

Lorkin의 게시글

HoleofArt: Hunters are doomed, Tank dps will out take us, the sky is falling, I'm re-rolling.
Fulgurah: Hunters are fine, here are the parses, we're holding our own, caster dps is a higher atm.
Rest of Wowhead hunters: I'm gonna listen to HoleofArt & Rilgon, hunter's are doomed, only noobs like hunters now.

Really people?

It's one thing say your dps is be lower than casters (pre-expansion they always get better spells, coefficients, they don't need better weapons, etc). It's another to say your dps went down from pre patch. It's entirely different all together to say your class sucks monkey poo now.

And it's only been a week.

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HoleofArt의 게시글

My first post here was that Hunters are not doing better than before.
I didn't mean for my "we're near the tanks" to be taken literally. I was using it as a way of saying our dps is poor.

Kripp is in full BiS. Full BiS Hunters (if you'd look at those logs) pull around 20k. It isn't a number I've pulled out of my ass. I also wasn't looking at the actualy "Overall" when I said that. You misunderstood. I looked at all the non-gimmick fights, looked at his dps, and rounded.

I'm done with this thread.

Fulgurah의 게시글

Except most people's DPS did go drastically down pre-patch.

And our rotation is ridiculously stupid. As it stands, from what I've seen, if your DPS went up then you were most likely doing something wrong pre-patch.

But this is not actually true. Again, if you look at parses from top guilds, you'll see even those in BiS gear from pre 4.0.1 had DPS increases, although in most cases very small ones. This jives with most of my own data. When I figured out what I was doing and got my gear set up, my DPS increased slightly over 11/12 ICC Heroic fights.

People want to claim the sky is falling. It's not. Was hunter DPS buffed? No. Was it nerfed? No. Will it get a lot better (as most of our abilities scale very, very well with stuff like ranged DPS and AP), yes.

I think we COULD yes a buff to abilities like Chimera Shot/Explosive Shot/Kill Command to ensure that Arcane/Steady spam is not the preferred way to DPS right now. But to say that only bad hunters saw a DPS increase or that Hunter DPS is down with the tanks is verifiably wrong.

josephles32의 게시글

I read all of the arguing back and forth, and am not sure who to agree with; however, I will say based on my own experience, my dps has been struggling. I do not have great gear (since I just dinged about 3 weeks prior to patch), but my gs was around 5.7. I will admit that I have not run ICC with my hunter since the patch, but I have run many Heroics in an attempt to get the rotation down. 7-8k dps was the norm pre 4.0 for Heroic bosses (often higher), but has dropped to approximately 5.5-6k at best. I have been switching back and forth from BM to MM in this "testing phase", but my MM dps has sufferred severely. I have done every rotation that has been given, maintaining focus, and using the appropriate shots when they proc (AS, ect.), and still I am not anywhere near the dps I was pre patch. I have not reforged to Mastery, as I feel it will be my last ditch effort until Cata comes out, or they give hunters a dps boost. So far I am very disappointed, bc I really do like playing a hunter. I am more inclined to roll with my mage and ret pally in ICC as they are doing well above the 10k dps mark. Armory has not updated my character atm, but in case you are wondering, he is Bratton (Blackwing Lair, US). I do have the 4p T10. I will be happy to hear any suggestions. Typically I use the same rotation as every other hunter that has posted suggestions, but to no help. I stay around 5.5-6k on the dummies as well. Thanks in advance.

Fulgurah의 게시글

Reforge Crit to Mastery and come back. Armory isn't updated (obviously), so I can't comment on that.

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[4.0.1] Is it me or is Hunter's DPS compared to other classes horrible?

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