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Commento di 11248

These babies can drop the Crusader formula, and it seems it was changed after the 2.0.5 or TBC patch, as a friend of mine got his about 3 hours ago (16/01/07).

Commento di 15313

they spawn around and in the cathedral at tyr's hand, sharing spawnpoints with curates and most praetorians.

Commento di 18155

Yep they definently drop the Crusader recipe. I had one just drop, dropped about 20-30 Archmages. I'm a lvl 70 hunter, so it was an easy task

Commento di Phioner

I confirmed that these mobs can drop crusader formula. I killed spellbinders for 30mins and they didn't drop this, I moved to the tyr's hand and the 3rd archmage I killed dropped off this.

Commento di 47617

The archmages appear to be on a rotating spawn with Curates. So if there aren't any archmages, kill curates, and they should pop eventually.

Commento di Sakesama

Not sure about anyone else but I managed to get the crusader enchant to drop after only a few kills, maybe twenty. I was seeing if I could farm it so someone I know could use it to enchant my warriors weapons. Now the proud owner of Vanquisher's Sword (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=10823) and Sword of Serenity (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=6829) both enchanted with Crusader.

Basically just keep at it and you should get the enchant soon, sorry to all those with rotten luck. =(

Commento di Kurasu

Grinding archmages is made even easier if you're just looking for them. Archmages all carry with them a lit staff which casts a glow on the ground. If you're not feeling like grinding forever, just do a quick check for the pats with the lights, or lit mobs standing in the pairs and trios. This is made even easier at night, when the light *really* shows up around those mobs.

Commento di 31957

MUCH better drop rate on the Archmages
Spent two days farming the Spellbinders and nothing
I go to Tyr's Hand and get it on the 10 kill of the Archmages

Server: Khaz'Goroth

Commento di 332056

More specifically, it seems that the praetorians that act as stationary "guards" to the chapel do not share spawns with archmages or curates. However the curates and praetorians that move or talk share spawns. I can confirm that all 3 spawn in most locations as well.

I got the crusader pattern after 113 kills. Took approximately 2 hours as a lvl 80 hunter distracted by guild conversation.

1% drop may sound low, but here's a table outlining your combined chances of getting at least 1 drop:

Number of kills - Chance to get at least one

20 - 18%
40 - 33%
80 - 55%
100 - 63%
200 - 87%
500 - 99%

edit for clarification: To the extent of my knowledge, one kill has no effect on the outcome of other kills, and thus can be treated as a combination of independent events. The probability of at least one dropping in 5 kills is the chance that you get 1 drop, 2 drops, 3 drops, 4 drops, or 5 drops. In no way is this saying that killing 500 will give you a 99% chance to find one, nor does it say you need to kill 500 to receive a drops. The correct way to think of these statistics is that if you kill 200 mobs blindfolded you have an 87% chance of finding one or more patterns in your inventory.

Commento di 363454

They HAVEN'T highest drop chance, look how much that have been looted. Now look how much Spellbinders have been looted.

Commento di 327901

Their pretty funny to kite, but you have to know strong guards, or your gonna die ;( Not funny... was close by my self, always take a melee to take them with you

Commento di Grabnex

Tip: Kill the door guards at the temple on you way out. When they respawn outside, it means the temple has respawned too. Like a egg timer, only worth about 50sp and occasionally a green.

Commento di 433020

1% drop may sound low, but here's a table outlining your chances of getting at least 1 drop:

Number of kills - Chance to get at least one
* 20 - 18%
* 40 - 33%
* 80 - 55%
* 100 - 63%
* 200 - 87%
* 500 - 99%

The above is 100% at being incorrect, at least.

A 1% drop means each drop has 1% of giving you that item. And 99% of not.

So after 20 drops, your chances remain 1%.

After 500, your chances remain 1%.

Your "odds" of getting at least one never improve, because WOW doesn't calculate how many drops you've had. It's not like a card deck, where your odds of getting a specific card improve each time you remove one from the deck. 1/52, 5/51, 1/50; thus increasing your odds of getting it. Wow resets the odds, each and every drop, so kill count is completely irrelevant.

Simply: You might farm 20,000 of these guys and never get one, because you still have a 99% chance of not getting it.

Look up "Gambler's Fallacy" on Wiki. Basically, just because you think you have better odds, because you've done it so many times...doesn't actually have anything to do with your statistical odds.

Commento di 433020

I ranked you down, because the chance of the 200th or the 500th might not be higher, but the cobined chance after killing X of the mobs is higher, and it can be calculated by (1-^number of tries), the way you make it sound is completely false, cause you make it sound as if you rolled a die once and if you didn't get the drop you'll never get it, this is untrue, and after killing many of thse mobs the chance of it not having dropped reduces considerably, tough I'm sure many people won't beleive in your post, as they have farmed for a low chance item and succeded.

You're overlooking several things, though.

1. If someone farms a low chance item, and succeeds, all that proves is that they got the 1/1000 chance, or whatever the drop percentage is. That proves absolutely zero about the likelihood of the drop changing over time. Theoretically, you could get it 5 times in a row. And then never get the item again, after thousands of tries.

2. If the odds actually did change, which they don't, then you might as well tell everyone to play the lottery as often as possible, because the likelihood of them not winning will decrease each time they play. Gambler's fallacy, like stated.

The bottom line is, the game keeps no record of what dropped last, or use that as a calculation for the next. And therefore, any equation that makes an assumption of comparing previous drops to the next, is incorrect.

Commento di Spungo

You're missing the point, while the "Gambler's Fallacy" you mentioned is correct and the drop rate per mob does not change over time, it's not what the original poster was talking about.

Consider each single mob has a 1% chance of dropping the enchant and that 100 mobs are a "block".

Yes the 1st mob has a 1% chance of dropping the enchant, yes the 50th mob has a 1% chance of dropping the enchant and yes, even the 100th mob has a 1% chance of dropping the enchant.
HOWEVER..
As a combined 100 kills, A "block", the drop rate is actually 63.4%
(1- ^ number of kills)

This is comparable to someone rolling a dice, the chance of a six with one roll is 1/6 or 16.6r%, the chance of someone rolling at least one six with three rolls is 91/216 or 42.13%

Commento di 433020

As a combined 100 kills, A "block", the drop rate is actually 63.4%
(1- ^ number of kills)

This is comparable to someone rolling a dice, the chance of a six with one roll is 1/6 or 16.6r%, the chance of someone rolling at least one six with three rolls is 91/216 or 42.13%

Too bad that WoW doesn't account for "blocks" of anything. Each drop is independent of the last. And thus, lumping them into blocks, is pointless.

Either the fallacy is correct, or the math is. And since this is a probability based on independent events, the math has no basis.

Gambler's fallacy specifically states that there can be no calculation for probability on something that is random. Such as rolling the dice. No matter how many times you roll it, you cannot state that there is any specific odd that you will get any specific outcome.

Lets say you roll a six, 150 times in a row. What's the odd that you'll roll another 6? 1/6. Your calculation would put it at fairly impossible. But it remains 1/6.

Go read the article on it, again.

As stated; "the fallacy is built on the notion that previous failures indicate an increased probability of success on subsequent attempts."

And like most fallacies, lots of people believe in them. And try to prove them. And are completely wrong.

Commento di Spungo

Too bad that WoW doesn't account for "blocks" of anything. Each drop is independent of the last. And thus, lumping them into blocks, is pointless.

The "block" was merely an attempt to make my explanation easier to digest, by considering the entire series of 100 kills is infact only one iteration, and in the context its entirely mathematically correct to do so.

Assuming each try is independant, saying something has a 1% chance on the first try, a 1% chance on the 100th try and a 1% chance on the 1,000,000th try is entirely correct.

Also, assuming each try is independant, saying something has a 1% chance per try and per 100 tries you have a 63.4% chance of the event happening is entirely correct too.

If you were to reiterate the 100 tries millions of times, you would find that per 100 tries, you would indeed get a figure close to 63.4%

Just to clarify in the hope that this time you will understand what I mean, I am NOT suggesting that if, after 99 tries the event had not happened, the 100th try would yield a 63.4% chance (this is what the "Gambler's Fallacy" is all about).

However, probabilities can never be accurately modelled purely due to their nature and in realistic circumstances a 1% chance will rarely come out as 1 per 100, it only becomes evident when you do millions of iterations, which is why a lot of people seem to get confused about them.

I hope if you reply to me again you can post a new example to prove why I'm wrong rather than why you're right, which I've never disputed, it's just that you're missing the point.

Commento di 293933

it took about twenty kills for me to get the enchant, and I was only going there experimentally. If, even after 500 kills, you're still not getting it, just remember; it could just as easily have dropped off of the first kill. that percentage is not saying, "kill this many, and you'll get the enchant." If you've killed a ton of 'em and it just won't drop, give up for the day and come back later. It will save you from a ton of wasted time and stress. Incidentally, the archmages aren't the only ones that drop the enchant, although they're most likely the easiest to farm. If some jerk's going through the same trouble as you and just killing all the mobs before you get to them, there's a tower in the western plaguelands that spawns scarlet spellbinders; these folks have just about the same percentage chance of giving you it. But don't get worked up over it. If worse heads in the general direction of worst, you can always buy the formula from the AH.

Commento di ManyLith

Been wanting to get this Enchant for twinks..but never really went for it because of the low drop rate..but today on my Pally i was bored and decided to go for it. As i come to Ty's Hand in EPL I saw a Scarlet Archmage and killed her. Guess what drops on my very first kill lol. If you aren't as lucky as I was then keep killing it will eventually drop. Also these mobs drop tons of Runecloth that sales pretty good on the AH for people trying to get Rep with all major Cities.

Commento di Justly

Here, let me explain. I think I know something that will clear up all of this arguing.

50% chance of drop

What does that mean? Does that mean 50% of the time you will ALWAYS get the drop? Absolutely NOT.

A "chance" only means that it has the possibility of dropping, not that it will. So the way that you have to look at it is: 1/2 of the time, you will NOT get it. Not the other way around. Lets say something has a 90% chance to drop. Does that mean if you kill it 10 times, it will drop 9 times? No. It means that if you kill it 10 times, there is a probability that it will drop 9 times. However, there is a 100% chance that 10% of the time, the item will not drop.

So, lets recap, what does all this mean in 1 shot sentence?

If something has a 20% drop rate, that means 20 percent of the time it has the possibility of dropping, the other 80%, it will not drop.

Commento di 106282

To address the probability junk above. there are no guarantees. It is a probablistic indicater. In a fashion similar to tossing a coin.

Statistics Lesson 101: Event-occurrance probability is multiplicative. Multiple events, to have joint probability, must have their individual probability values multiplied.

Example: Toss a coin. The probabiliity of it coming up heads (or tails) is 1-in-2 or .50 probability, discounting the infintisamal chance of it landing on edge). Toss it twice, and *each toss* has an independent probability of .50 for either heads or tails, but the probability of *both* being the same (i.e. two heads) is multiplicative, i.e. 0.50 * 0.50, or 0.250, or 1-in-4 chance. Carrying this further, the probability of tossing it four times sequentially, and having it come up heads all four times is (0.50)^4, or 0.0625, a 6.25%. The thing to remember here is these are in fact independent events, but the outcmoe requirements make them dependent on probability. It should be easily seen that the odds of tossing a coin 4 times and having heads come up all four is the *same* as tossing four coins at once and having them all land heads: 6.25%.

On to the subject of much apparent debate on this thread, Crusader appears to have a 1% drop rate. That means 99% of the time (or .99 probability) it will NOT drop off the mage you kill. Therefore, the probability of killing two mages with NO drop would be (0.99)^2, 0.9801, etc. Some more numbers below:

Probability of NO drop in 'N' kills.
1 = 99%
2 = 98.01%
3 = 97.03%
4 = 96.06%
5 = 95.10%
10 = 90.44%
20 = 81.79%
50 = 60.50%
69 = 49.98%
75 = 47.06%
100 = 36.60%
150 = 22.15%
200 = 13.40%
300 = 4.90%
400 = 1.8%
500 = 0.66%

Note the point when it crosses the 50% line. after 69 kills the only explanation for your NOT getting the drop by that point and beyond is just plain bad luck, since the odds are cumulitvely in your favor. Again, each drop is still 1/100, but after 69 with no drop, every kill you don't get one, assuming blizzard has a pure 1% drop rate, speaks to your bad luck, not your good.

You can, in fact, reach 500 kills (and beyond) with no drop. At that point pat yourself on the back and be at least rewarded in knowing you've done somthing amazing. Its not everyone that can kill 500 mages and get no drop. In fact, there's only a 0.66% chance of it, and you beat the odds. Then go uninstall the game, drop feces in the gamebox you bought, and send it back to blizzard. I know I would.

Commento di wowdrakon

So I decided to finally get this formula for my mage enchanter. Went on my prot paladin to farm this
yesterday. My first farming run included about 120 kills of these guys, no drops, nothing good at all really. Of course I noticed that they share spawn points with the other two mobs there, so I'd clear all of them every time.

Then after a few hours, went back and got the formula after about 40 kills. Had to kill a horde warrior 3-4 times to gain control of the area for myself. Didn't think prot paladin could do so much pvp damage lol.

Other drops I got in those 40 kills:

Eight of Warlords
Pattern: Mooncloth Leggings
Mageflame Cloak
Formula: Enchant Boots - Greater Stamina
Formula Enchant Bracers - Superior Stamina

Also managed to get among other greens and junk around 700 runecloth! These guys have a high drop of Runecloth for sure.

Commento di 585010

Got mine after about 20 or so. Getting another one for the Auction House, 750G on my server.

Commento di Redsoxxfan4394

Just got it after 37 kills...but then again, i am always unlucky in WoW :l
....anyways, I'm gonna stay and grab another couple....they are selling for 1.5-2k gold on my server! :D

*UPDATE* - Got another one 7 kills after the first 37...gonna get moar ;D

Commento di Hawkyyy

Dropped the enchant on my first Archmage kill. Then another on my 5th kill, guess i got really lucky.

Commento di 364239

These mobs have been changed to undead. Don't know if they will still drop crusader or not.

Commento di trizzet

I spent a few hours killing the mobs on a character in the area and got the following breakdown on the Scarlet Archmages from looking at the Mobinfo2 Database I collected over a few monotonous hours killing everything.

Level 42-43

452 kills

12 Gray items
193 White items
8 Green items

Further, from what I've read on the item page on Blizzard's site, they might not even be the mobs that drop this enchant anymore, but the GMs seem to have hinted it does still drop from something in both Eastern and Western Plaguelands, no one knows what, though. Might be Scholomance and Stratholme due to Tyr's Hand being a phased area now, and the mobs not being elites any longer/are now undead. I've gotten enough drops to have made the expedition worth my time, but it's time for me to look elsewhere for this.

Commento di 1Beachcomber

I also spent a lot of time trying to get this formula from these mobs...we really need confirmation if this still drops.

Commento di Angxia

As of 4.1 these drop the crusader formula. After 4 hours of farming it dropped for me. If you're going to farm these remember to kill all the praetorians and curates aswell so the archmages will spawn faster.

Commento di 298040

If you're going to be farming these guys, it might be worth getting Fiona's Lucky Charm from the caravan.

Commento di kellyfornia

Dropped for me today after about 8hrs farming. i guess just unlucky on Random numbers.
Glad to see it back.

I found an Underworld Band on a Scarlet Praetorian.
My Addon says its a World drop but my point is make sure you Loot every thing.

Kellyfornia

Commento di 832232

After about 65 Archmage kills I finally got it drop, off an archmage to the North-Eastern corner outside the Chapel, near the little grey well.
If you're around level 41-46 or so, and you are an enchanter, I highly recommend grinding on these mobs for a while. I got 5 greens, and afew stacks of mageweave while I was at it.
Make sure you kill the Curaters and Praetorians too, as they share a spawn timer with Archmages.
I.E. The more stuff you kill the more the Archmages have a chance of spawning in their stead!
The spawn rate is fairly fast too - Kill in a horseshoe pattern around the front and sides of the chapel, by the time you make it to the western point, the eastern point is already respawning.

Happy Farming!

..and remember, with patience and endurance anything is possible. Cheers

Edit: I farmed the place for about 2 hours, and ended up with 4 Crusader enchants, 7 greens, 1 blue wand, and about 11 stacks of mageweave.
=-)

Commento di WyvernVJ

And don't bother killing praetorians standing on the wall or the stairs, they will respawn as praetorians always.

Commento di Juked

For those reasonably new players who may be confused with 'Tyr's Hand' not being on the map, it's the top cathedral part of 'Ruins of the Scarlet Enclave.'

Commento di 836553

got the formula for crusader after 5 kills, for once in my life im lucky :D

Commento di 631142

Note: If you completed the quest chain that wipes out the Scarlet Crusade from the area the crusade enchant will not be farmmable off this mob due to them not being there.

At least it's BoE, just farm it on another toon that hasn't done the quest :)

Commento di 500383

Got mine after 30 minutes or so. Just kill every mob outside and inside the church. The 2 praetorians on the stairs and the ones on the walls are gonna be praetorians when respawn so dont bother killing them. Besides them, kill every other Praetorian, Curator and ofc Archmage. They have a shared spawn so this way you will always get yourself Archmages to kill.

Commento di 958097

registered an account here at wowhead to specifically say as of 2/22/2012 that the Crusader enchant recipe does still in fact drop. It took me an hour or so but it dropped for me. Scarlet Archmage is still confirmed as what dropped it.

Commento di caillia

It definitely still drops. Just got it today, 4/11/2012 on my mage on Cenarion Circle after a couple hours of farming. Dropped off the archmage.

Commento di 962844

Will add to the confirmations ... as of 5/3/12 I got 1 Pattern so far (plus 6 Essences of Undeaths, couple greens, about 4 stacks of Mageweaves, and a stack of silk cloths as well) after roughly 40 min of farming. Got my pattern surprisingly inside the chapel of all places.

My method is doing the recommended 'horseshoe' starting at the little grey well, then shoot inside the chapel when I get to the stairs, dash back outside, clean up anything near the stairs, then continue on to the next section of the curve. By that time I get to the end near the road leading out of the abby everything's pretty much respawned so it's back towards the well and wash, rinse, repeat.

Gods do I LOVE the incredibly fast timer on these! Sometimes they spawn again before I can even leave the area, now that's what I call the ultimate perfect farming spot lol!

Note to Hunters! ---> Make sure that if you're much higher lvl than the area that you set your pet to either passive or defensive! I lost a couple mage chances because my pet attacked and killed them before I could get a shot off, which meant no chance to loot of course. So yeah, make sure they don't get to the mages before you do! :(

Commento di Vilifier

Completely off-topic here, what is the weapon that this NPC uses? Been searching the interwebz for ages with no prevail. More importantly, is it eligible for transmogrification?

Edit: Found it while searching the AH! http://www.wowhead.com/item=1607#

Commento di 805630

Does this only drop if you are an enchanter? I've been farming for three days now, clearing all three mob types and looting everything for quicker respawn and only stopping when I just can't stand it any more. No recipe. My enchanter already did the quest chain so no archmages for her. Can someone confirm that it drops for anyone except the unluckiest..which might just be me.

Commento di Loknagar

I just got it on my 58th one and was gonna get a second to put on the AH and it dropped on the 61st thats pretty lucky, so the drop isn't so bad

Commento di 980836

I farmed Formula: Incanta Arma - Crociato from these guys, and it took me about 1 and a half hours of farming.

While I was there, I also got:

Mageweave Cloth x27
Field Plate Boots of Stamina x1
Steel Lockbox x1

8/24/2012

Commento di radicarl

I'm probably gonna be trying to farm for one of these over winter break. All I can say is:
Thank goodness for the new AoE looting system.

Commento di Rastaroth

woot! just dropped on my 1st run, confirmed, it drops from Scarlet Archmage :-)) and yes, it shares respawn with Scarlet Praetorians and the Scarlet Curate

Commento di Zyvoxx

Did they increase the drop rate in 5.2 or lately? I barely spent a couple of minutes and killed not more than 10 archmages before they dropped one. Either that or I'm insanely lucky.

Commento di akow

I just looted a formula : Enchant Bracers Greater stamina off him . I was looking for Crusader . Looking that up that formula , It doesn't list it being dropped off of him or any other mob near this location .

Commento di judybooty

Repeating a comment further down the chain; this would have helped me 15 minutes ago:

Note: If you completed the quest chain that wipes out the Scarlet Crusade from the area the crusade enchant will not be farmable off this mob due to them not being there.

Commento di 1109908

After killing what seemed less then 20 archmages the enchantment dropped for me.

Commento di Mariaelena77

Farmed these guys today for almost 2 hours and no Crusader recipe drop. Demoralising.

Commento di Neko7

Do you need to be an Enchanter for those to drop, or does it for everyone (but enchanters are most likely to be the one farming it} ?
Thanks in advance.

Commento di Flae

Got mine now, 2nd one since I play WoW (Vanilla). Took me about one hour to have the Archmages to drop it.
To farm it, just run around and inside the large Cathedral. Kill everything as the Archmages share spawn with the Praetorians and Curaters. If it moves, kill it. If it doesn't, kill it. The Praetorians standing on the wall and the stairs will always respawn as Praetorians but I've killed them anyways, their contribution to my stack of Cloth was invaluable :)

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