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The Abyssal Maw: Den of Mystery and Doom
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Messaggio di
asakawa
Today is
Expert Rocketeer
Day!
...and my guild turned 25 the other day and I've got a 5man that can do the mount run even with the tank DCing for two and a half minutes just before Nalorak ^_^
Messaggio di
Interest
Today is
Expert Rocketeer
Day!
...and my guild turned 25 the other day and I've got a 5man that can do the mount run even with the tank DCing for two and a half minutes just before Nalorak ^_^
Yay, now I won't feel pressured to log on anymore.
Messaggio di
LookOut
Finally got to raid a bit again (in a fail pug, but still). Seeing shadow bite as highest hitting ability (as demo) is so wrong xD Was hitting up to 55k!
Messaggio di
TheVorago
this isn't particularly off-topic (but maybe off-topic from the off-topic, so what the hell ^_^ )
i was thinking about hit rating as a stat comparable to the all the others in the simcrafting weighing, and my conundrum is: can we/simcraft really compare the
actual
,
in battle dps value
of hit to something like intellect or haste? As we know, INT sims considerably higher than hit, making it worthwhile to choose the former over the latter even below hitcap.
but may it be the case that the relative strength of hit is based primarily on spammed abilities (nuke chains etc) where the human factor isn't that relevant? If you just chain shadowbolts or incinerates for example, a miss has no greater effect than the damage loss of that spell, is followed by another spammed cast that presumably hits, and hence the value of hit is straightforward. but when it comes to dot-based specs and situations it doesn't seem quite as simple. In the heat of battle you press your binds intuitively and if you aren't hitcapped, a missed dot here and there may go unnoticed for a moment. When reapplying it you will have missed precious dps seconds.
bottom line: is the value of hit compared to other stats really reliable, or is the potential value of hit perhaps greater in, say, affliction than destruction? i reckon this is at least not accounted for in the calculations, nor can be.
Messaggio di
asakawa
It's an interesting question. Actually DoT heavy specs/classes tend to suffer less from a lack of hit than pure nuking specs (like arcane). DoTs tend to have short cast times and high DPET but their DPS is low. Meanwhile nukes have long cast times and high DPS so you're wasting more time and losing more.
reactions are an issue but not a big one. You can test these sorts of things by playing around with the latency and player skill values in SimCraft.
Messaggio di
TheVorago
It's an interesting question. Actually DoT heavy specs/classes tend to suffer less from a lack of hit than pure nuking specs (like arcane). DoTs tend to have short cast times and high DPET but their DPS is low. Meanwhile nukes have long cast times and high DPS so you're wasting more time and losing more.
reactions are an issue but not a big one. You can test these sorts of things by playing around with the latency and player skill values in SimCraft.
its a good point with the DPET and im sure its true, at least in theory. but something still seems fishy...if you just spam 10 000 shadowbolts in sequence you can safely predict how much of a dps loss having say 15% instead of 17% hit would be (accounting for lag etc). and you would know the true value of hit compared to other stats with very small margin or error.
in a heavily dot based spec though (just as straightforward in theory of course - im thinking the actual execution of it) i dont think i could trust these stat values to any great exactitude. Example - i have sometimes found myself getting a "blind spot" for dots. its almost like filling in words while you read a book or not at first seeing how a word is misspelled because your brain reorganizes its letters to fix it. So watching those debuffs on the enemy unit frames i may have "seen" UA or corruption being there in its row and not thinking more of it for 10-20 seconds, when in fact it has missed. maybe it's only me that's prone to these kind of illusions, but hey ^^.
it may be a minor thing that has little impact on actual performace, but if the hit is low enough i think it might, since this introduces yet another attention-requiring element.
Messaggio di
asakawa
Hmm, well, if you think misses could be having that kind of effect on your performance then you need to cap your hit and/or get a better addon to track DoTs.
Since hit's value (with the stats you suspect may place it too low) is above other green stats you should be capping it pretty early by simply following the usual reforging policy. If it had a greater value then nothing would change until the point it surpassed Int when you would also gem for it. This is a BIG swing that I really wouldn't expect to see from the kinds of things you're mentioning.
This is tricky because you're talking about an intellectual exercise (in that it doesn't effect any choices you'd make) but using the kind of real problems that arise from human error. In the end I would really say just work on removing the human error from the equation.
Messaggio di
539323
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
asakawa
This is the value of SimCraft.
You get it to run the fight 10,000 times and average the results so you get a more accurate value because the outliers where you have no misses at all get averaged out by the other fights where you miss twice as many as your miss chance would suggest.
It's worth remembering that Crit works in a very similar way. A miss means we get no damage for our time spent casting. A Crit means we get double. Both are percentage based and both are, in the end, down to the luck of the RNG.
Messaggio di
AWildmann
I know a lot of people who do lower hit cap to try to achieve better damage overall. The other day I was raiding on Omnotron, and I was using a SBAffliction build and was also the one responsible to warning people to stop hitting the latest robot (I know, its stupid but there's so many people who ignore the bar and keep hitting them), and I managed to do about 17k dps, being the top 1.
But, a mage who had about 13% hit was just 0,7% behind me in damage. That really made me think. In my case as affliction, I know that if I don't hit cap, I'm sure my abilities are gonna fail on me in the worst moment, like refreshing SE, or trying to use drain soul and getting a miss, and having to recast UA because I know a second drain soul won't tick in time.
But I wonder if its ok for me to not hit cap as Demonology, because I don't need to keep any kind of stacked ability, except maybe for Hand of Gul'dan aura, which has some long cooldown which my felguard could get more crit, which I could get more mana from mana feed. Would such thing be worth it? Does anyone tend to do this to achieve higher dps?
Messaggio di
asakawa
Well, There's more and more evidence to suggest that HoG actually can not miss (a bug, surely not intended).
However, I absolutely
would not
suggest people ignore the accepted stat weights that put hit above other green stats. It's a gamble that is in no way worth it and the higher stats get (getting better gear and moving through raid tiers) the truer this will get - the more of the other stats you have the more hit is worth.
Messaggio di
asakawa
double post but, hey, it's the off-topic thread right?
Got Halfus heroic down tonight and now I understand why so many guilds have done that before having killed Nefarian.
Some background:
My guild have been a social PvE guild since tBC. We're basically friends who raid together rather than raiders who are also friends. Some of us really like raiding and take it quite seriously (you may not be surprised that I fall in this category) while others enjoy the guild events, doing things as a group, but aren't all that interested in progression and gear. The whole raid team wants to see all the content while it's current but not everyone wants to go to the extra effort of doing heroics.
However, a couple of us had read up on Halfus and it sounded pretty simple so, after 5 attempts we got it. The healers said it was surprisingly easy once we got the strategy down and I thought it was a lot of fun (I went Affliction for that one).
I'm not sure how many more I can cajole the others into attempting but does anyone have a suggestion of the next easiest one to try? I've been eyeing up Maloriak but maybe there's a better option.
Messaggio di
Rekijan
Atramades for sure, it isn't that big of a step up from normal. Just need more dps (because of less gongs) and interupt+kill an add. You just have less room for error :)
The dark vial phase from Maloriak is pretty hard on dps, combined with 100% healing debuff for 8 out of 10 seconds during that phase on your main tank... well its not as nice :P
Messaggio di
asakawa
I fear that there are members of my raid that struggle enough with the movement required in normal Atramedes that heroic might be a bit of a shock for them >.<
Chimearon is another possibility I'm looking at and Magmaw is one we've got such a good handle on in normal mode that might be worth escalating...
Messaggio di
446836
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
asakawa
Food for thought. Thanks for the advice.
Messaggio di
446836
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
asakawa
hehe, not at all.
Messaggio di
AWildmann
Boy, I am considering changing my main spec from affliction to demo.
I usually went on heroics using the Felguard only because I didn't knew if it would be better to switch the Felguard glyph to something else if I am to use the Felhunter. But I tried it anyway and by God, pumping the cooldowns along with the felhunter, my dps is sky rocketing! The only bad thing is that most of my gear is made out of crit and haste, which demo would benefit more from mastery.
Still, the one thing I love about demo is not having to give a crap about mana, sure its not always that my pets crit to proc the Mana Feed, but damn, I have never used life tap since I've been trying out demo.
Messaggio di
LookOut
My guild just got neffy hc down, so after we kill it a second time next reset, we're gong chogall to try and unlock sinestra before 4.2 hits live.
*crosses fingers*
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