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Questions for a Catholic
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Messaggio di
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
Hyperspacerebel
Again, you are inferring that the word "day" means something else based off of what it might have said earlier in the book.
No that was just one point. I'm saying ביום rarely means 'today.' And that the fact that you're forcing that translation is silly.
Messaggio di
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
Hyperspacerebel
it is what the Bible says
ביום is what the Bible says.
Today is what you say.
I'm going to spell this out once.
When translating between languages, there are two ways of doing it. The first way is to transliterate everything, while the second way is to translate the concepts.
ביום transliterated means 'in the day.'
ביום as a concept usually holds a meaning equivalent to the English "in those days," but applied to the future or present.
To take a transliterated phrase and conceptually morph that into something else without reference to the original concept is
silly.
Messaggio di
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
Hyperspacerebel
Actually, hyper, it is Catholic teaching that the Bible is correct in what it says and that the Holy Spirit has guided the people that have translated it over the years to mean exactly what it says in its current form
Actually, lost, no.
I can list off a whole number of faulty translations.
This thread is for people to find out about Catholic teaching, not for you to come in and pretend you already know what we teach.
Secondly,
Yes he did banish the Serpent.
God asked Adam and Eve to get them to confess and be sorry (which they failed at).
You've mentioned sheep's blood 3 times now, and I have no idea what you're referring to.
Messaggio di
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
Hyperspacerebel
Catholic teaching does state this
States, what? That every translation is inspired by God? No, it does not.
Why did he banish the Devil AFTER the fact, not before? He knew full well his intentions and the Devil was going to talk to people that did not know right or wrong. How is that in any way fair for Eve?
It's called a test. They failed.
They knew that God told them not to. They knew who God was. They knew he deserved unquestioning obedience.
Messaggio di
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
Hyperspacerebel
This thread is for people to find out about Catholic teaching, not for you to come in and pretend you already know what we teach. I have taught CCD for 5 years, I am a Confirmed Catholic and was even debating becoming a Priest for roughly 2-3 of those years. I went to a Catholic Middle and High School from grade 6 until grade 12 and I had to go to Theology every day. I was an alter server. I have no idea what I am talking about.
Well, pardon me.
I meant Catholic in belief, not in practice.
Most of the beliefs you've expressed are not what the Church teaches, whether you know it or not.
Why did he banish the Devil AFTER the fact, not before? He knew full well his intentions and the Devil was going to talk to people that did not know right or wrong. How is that in any way fair for Eve?
It's called a test. They failed.
They knew that God told them not to. They knew who God was. They knew he deserved unquestioning obedience.
Thank you! So it was a test hm? How were they supposed to pass this test if they did not know their actions were right or wrong?It goes back to the fact that God did not make this a fair test an that it was in just.
My answer is in what you quoted.
Messaggio di
Hyperspacerebel
Catholic teaching does state this
States, what? That every translation is inspired by God? No, it does not. The Cardinal knows less than you.
If that's what he said (which I highly doubt), then yes.
Messaggio di
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
Hyperspacerebel
Why would God want to test someone that clearly cannot be tested because they lack the psychological tools to do so? It would be like asking a 3 year a complex philosophical question and say who was right and who was wrong, even though the question is deigned to not have someone that was right or wrong. It may be a test, but it certainly is not fair and the person that is giving the test knows it, just like God knew it would be unfair to test someone that did not know right or wrong.
No it'd be like telling a 3-year-old not to take a cookie and then standing nearby when you hear another kid start telling the child to take the cookie. There is no need for knowledge of right and wrong to know that taking the cookie would defy what the parent said.
Why would God hide the idea of right and wrong away from people?
Innocence > non-innocence
I've seen enough trash in my short lifetime to know that.
Let us presume that Eve denied the Devil his wish, human beings would be nothing but docile sheep without the ability to have free will
So Adam and Eve didn't have free will? That denies your premise that they could have chosen not to eat the fruit.
Messaggio di
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
Hyperspacerebel
Except for the fact that in this case, there is no possible way that the child could have know right and wrong because of its age. However, God could have given them the knowledge and yet he did not. He punished them for something they had no control over.
They had perfect control over it. They
CHOSE
to disobey God's commandment.
There would be nothing to taint their innocence at this point, expect the Devil, who should not have been in the Garden in the first place.
The devil didn't destroy their innocence, they did it to themselves. The devil can't sin for us, only we can make ourselves sin.
I was basing that off your points actually, see how they don't stand up?
Do I see how your point doesn't stand up? Yes I do. It's falls into an infinitely paradoxical loop if you try to explain things your way.
also, you know more than a Prince of the Church huh?
Note, you have yet to quote
anything.
Stop playing and please give me something worth reading, or don't bring up the point at all.
Messaggio di
MyTie
If God were to come down from heaven, and tell you that Jesus was not the son of God, and that Catholics were way out of touch, and that you should be following the teachings of Muhammad, what would you do? Let's also say this being that presented Himself could demonstrate to you beyond a reasonable doubt that He was God.
Messaggio di
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
Squishalot
Damn, that's a lot since I last posted. Ok, I'll get back and respond to bits later.
Just wanted to challenge the premise of free will a bit more. Define 'free will'. From a deterministic perspective, there can be no
true
'free will', as every action is a consequent result of precedent events and actions. The analogy is that when God created the world, he did so knowing that his creations, Adam and Eve, would eat the fruit.
Does it make sense to program a robot to do something, then punish it for 'choosing' to do so, of its own 'free will', when its actions were a consequence of its creation?
Meeting at work, I'll be off for the next few hours. Sorry I can't join in properly!
Messaggio di
TheMediator
They knew he deserved unquestioning obedience.
Nothing deserves unquestioning obedience.
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