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Investigation Into the Blight and Its Testing
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Messaggio di
Skreeran
1. Sylvanas and the RAS almost killed villagers. We know that they killed farmers in Hillsbrad and they poisoned the ones in the inn. I'm just pointing out that it is most likely Scarlets in Undercity.
2. Sylvanas did not become giddy at the death of the test subjects. She became giddy that the weapon that her people have been working on for years is now coming into fruition. As she said:
"At last, Arthas, you will pay for what you have done. The humans who spawned such as you will be slaughtered. Your Scourge shall be stopped in their tracks. You will no longer be able to hide behind your armies of mindless undead puppets. And we will grace you with the same mercy and compassion you showed us."
That she had a human, one who was crying and screaming about dying... which doesn't deem like your standard Scarlet fanatic, most them rage against the Forsaken. I know she has no name, and we know it's a 'woman' as opposed to a little girl, but still, she doesn't sound like a fighter, so it's possible she was someone the Forsaken captured while they were in Hillsbrad or the like. Saying all the people are Scarlets isn't the right answer either; most of them are sure... but there are also people from Stromguarde who come under attack from that one Plague set up in Arathi. Merely saying, your doing the same thing you accuse Dark and others of; trying to group it all into one group.I don't doubt that some non-Scarlets were tested on, and that is definitely evil. But I'm certain that the majority were scarlets, and I can't say I feel much pity for them.
As for the girl, she might very well be a Scarlet. Take the most hardened, fanatical, jew hating, Aryan supremacist nazi you can find and give me a few weeks with him, and he'd be in the same crying, shaking, non-human state she was.
You can be 6 and defined as 'women' as well.But it implies that she is a woman. No where in there did it imply that she was a child.
By this point in time, all those outposts where in ruins, likely.Likely doesn't cut it. Besides, we know that the Scarlets still existed as a faction at that point, simply because of the Death Knight starter zone. Granted, those are in the Eastern Plaguelands, but the Monastary was still there and full of Scarlets when Darion brought the Ashbringer there, which was shortly before he died. In addition, Balnazzar was still possessing Dathoran at the end of the Ashbringer comic. In fact, according to what I can find of the Epilogue in the Hardcover edition of Ashbringer (
this
, is about as much as I can find at the moment, regrettably), would indicate that the Blight was "completed" (at least to the point that we see in the book) soon after the end of the comic.
Thus, the Scarlets were still active at this point.
quick off topic and one of the reason Med'an annoys me.
Med'an conceived/sired pre Orc invasion/First War, by Garona + Medvih( who died pre Orc invasion.)
Thrall was born after the second war several years later.Incorrect. Medivh died the day before Stormwind was burned. Thrall was born one year after the Dark Portal. Med'an was born sometime between those two points.
If A (by OP's logic Varian Wyrnn tried to kill child because he called a 30+ year old man a cub) then B (then The Forasken used children in Blight experiments by referring to one of the victims as a girl.) Since A occured first then B is true.
A. Old discussions are of little worth. A lot of mind have changed since that thread.
B. Med'an is essentially a teenager due to his draenei blood. In Rise of the Horde, Durotan encountered a young draenei girl when he was a child. He later met her again when he led the attack against Telmor. He was an adult. She wasn't, even though she was older than him.
B. There is evidence that Med'an is a child. Namely, the fact that Varian explicitly called him a child. There is no evidence that the girl in RotLK is a child.
Messaggio di
Monday
Well, she was the same age as Khadgar, and he was seventeen, so...
I am just saying. Thrall is like 31, and Garona is 37 (Going by how she is the same age as Khadgar). So Med'an would only be a few years younger then his mother.
I agree that she is 45-50 if you count the years she was aged prematurly, but her real age should be 37.
Thrall is only 25-26. He was 19 at the beginning of the Third War, and by present time its only been about seven years.
Messaggio di
Skreeran
Well, she was the same age as Khadgar, and he was seventeen, so...
I am just saying. Thrall is like 31, and Garona is 37 (Going by how she is the same age as Khadgar). So Med'an would only be a few years younger then his mother.
I agree that she is 45-50 if you count the years she was aged prematurly, but her real age should be 37.
Thrall is only 25-26. He was 19 at the beginning of the Third War, and by present time its only been about seven years.According to the Warcraft 3 manual, Thrall was 24 at the start of the Third War.
According to the WoW RPG (Page 10) he was born 2 years ADP (I was wrong, it's 2 years, not one), which would make him 25 by the 2007 official Timeline (which is out of date), and 30 by the Unofficial Timeline.
Him being 30 would also line up with the Warcraft 3 manual, as it's been 6 years since the Third War.
Messaggio di
Orranis
1. Sylvanas and the RAS almost killed villagers. We know that they killed farmers in Hillsbrad and they poisoned the ones in the inn. I'm just pointing out that it is most likely Scarlets in Undercity.
2. Sylvanas did not become giddy at the death of the test subjects. She became giddy that the weapon that her people have been working on for years is now coming into fruition. As she said:
"At last, Arthas, you will pay for what you have done. The humans who spawned such as you will be slaughtered. Your Scourge shall be stopped in their tracks. You will no longer be able to hide behind your armies of mindless undead puppets. And we will grace you with the same mercy and compassion you showed us."
That she had a human, one who was crying and screaming about dying... which doesn't deem like your standard Scarlet fanatic, most them rage against the Forsaken. I know she has no name, and we know it's a 'woman' as opposed to a little girl, but still, she doesn't sound like a fighter, so it's possible she was someone the Forsaken captured while they were in Hillsbrad or the like. Saying all the people are Scarlets isn't the right answer either; most of them are sure... but there are also people from Stromguarde who come under attack from that one Plague set up in Arathi. Merely saying, your doing the same thing you accuse Dark and others of; trying to group it all into one group.I don't doubt that some non-Scarlets were tested on, and that is definitely evil. But I'm certain that the majority were scarlets, and I can't say I feel much pity for them.
I disagree. While it was wrong, it was not necessarily evil. These humans were people they had known, loved, cared for, lived for, so on and so forth. They are beset by a horrible tragedy, but they escape. In the process, they lost nearly everything. When the go back to their families, they are called monsters and evil and are forced to live in the ruins of their old city, nothing complimentary about it but memories. In their minds, taking their lives for the benefit of the world is perfectly justified.
Messaggio di
Monday
Well, she was the same age as Khadgar, and he was seventeen, so...
I am just saying. Thrall is like 31, and Garona is 37 (Going by how she is the same age as Khadgar). So Med'an would only be a few years younger then his mother.
I agree that she is 45-50 if you count the years she was aged prematurly, but her real age should be 37.
Thrall is only 25-26. He was 19 at the beginning of the Third War, and by present time its only been about seven years.According to the Warcraft 3 manual, Thrall was 24 at the start of the Third War.
According to the WoW RPG (Page 10) he was born 2 years ADP (I was wrong, it's 2 years, not one), which would make him 25 by the 2007 official Timeline (which is out of date), and 30 by the Unofficial Timeline.
Him being 30 would also line up with the Warcraft 3 manual, as it's been 6 years since the Third War.
Gah I was looking at Arthas when I typed that >_<
Messaggio di
283679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
Rankkor
A. Old discussions are of little worth. A lot of mind have changed since that thread.
B. Med'an is essentially a teenager due to his draenei blood. In Rise of the Horde, Durotan encountered a young draenei girl when he was a child. He later met her again when he led the attack against Telmor. He was an adult. She wasn't, even though she was older than him.
B. There is evidence that Med'an is a child. Namely, the fact that Varian explicitly called him a child. There is no evidence that the girl in RotLK is a child.
A. It doesn't appear your mind has changed on the subject, you are still defending the same argument.
B.The victim was refered to as a 'girl'. You once again are stepping over your own logic to confirm what you feel should be true. By your Varian argument the victim is a child.
Sorry, I used Varian/Med'an to point out the similarities is arguments used. I don't we'll ever agree on that subject. I was showing the hard lines many people take Horde/Allliance. Defenders of the Forsaken pointed out the victim was called a girl at some point. Does that make her a child? If the argument is reveresed then clearly it does.
the diference orukai, is that on varian's case, it was an orc+draenei hibrid, they don't age the same way.
on the forsaken, it was a human, and was called specifically a woman...
you can't reverse the arguments, because by human chronology medan is an adult, but by draenei physiology he's still a child
while the human female was speficly referred to as a woman..... (this is why I prefer movies to books, by not having visual confirmation, everything is subject to interpretation, and everyone interpretates it to their convinience)
Messaggio di
Skreeran
A. It doesn't appear your mind has changed on the subject, you are still defending the same argument.No, I'm just trying to get the facts straight. Supremacy made a very good point in that thread, and I adjusted my opinions thusly.
B.The victim was refered to as a 'girl'. You once again are stepping over your own logic to confirm what you feel should be true. By your Varian argument the victim is a child.She was also referred to as a woman. It is you who is twisting logic in an attempt to make her out to be a child.
As Rankkor has mentioned, Jaina has been called a girl, does that make her a child?
As I said, Varian
explicitly
called Med'an a child. He didn't say "boy," or "young man"... He said child. There's no ambiguity to that word.
The case is much different.
Messaggio di
Adamsm
B.The victim was refered to as a 'girl'. You once again are stepping over your own logic to confirm what you feel should be true. By your Varian argument the victim is a child.
One was a human woman, who was apparently not so lost in fear and despair as not to start weeping silently when Keever dragged her from her cage.That's the part he transcribed from the book, and I also put some of it into the Sylvanas is Evil thread. It says a Woman, not a child, not a teenager, not a little girl.
Messaggio di
Rankkor
addams I wanted to hold my tounge about it, but I just can't anymore.
WHERE DID U GOT THAT AVATAR?
man I SWEAR i've seen it somewhere but can't remember where, and it's kiling me xD
Messaggio di
Adamsm
Kuja taking control of Bahamut.
Premium has an option to crop it, so I went with the face and the raised hand, just because he looks elite like that.
Messaggio di
Braevia
Regardless of whether it was a child who was killed, experimenting on live subjects is certainly unethical and inhumane. You could certainly define Sylvanas as evil, but then, you would have to paint the likes of Jack Bauer with the same brush, and most people simply consider him to be ruthless.
...or perhaps Rorschach would be a better comparison.
Messaggio di
Rankkor
Kuja taking control of Bahamut.
Premium has an option to crop it, so I went with the face and the raised hand, just because he looks elite like that.
I KNEW IT! jesus. I've been scratching my head for the past days trying to figure out WHERE did u got that avatar and why was it so familiar......
awesome game :P ff9 xD I'm a fan of the saga, can't wait to have a ps3 to play FF 13
Messaggio di
Skreeran
Regardless of whether it was a child who was killed, experimenting on live subjects is certainly unethical and inhumane. You could certainly define Sylvanas as evil, but then, you would have to paint the likes of Jack Bauer with the same brush, and most people simply consider him to be ruthless.
...or perhaps Rorschach would be a better comparison.Indeed, it hardly lessens the fact that she's testing on people. I was just getting really, really sick of certain people constantly saying that the Forsaken were ripping children to shreds.
In addition, I feel that it slightly reduces the evil of the act that said subjects are most likely comprised of a majority of Scarlet Crusaders. I don't really pity Scarlets.
Messaggio di
ArgentSun
BAM! You deserved it.
Messaggio di
ArgentSun
Unlocking the thread. Stay on topic.
Messaggio di
Dralas
I'm going to keep an eye on this thread to help keep this in check...
Messaggio di
Orranis
Regardless of whether it was a child who was killed, experimenting on live subjects is certainly unethical and inhumane. You could certainly define Sylvanas as evil, but then, you would have to paint the likes of Jack Bauer with the same brush, and most people simply consider him to be ruthless.
...or perhaps Rorschach would be a better comparison.
Unethical as it may be, I don't classify it as evil (Actually, I don't really believe in "evil" short of Sargeras/Old Gods.) After they were betrayed, this is perfectly justified in their eyes, and thus it is not evil. To them, the ends justify the means.
Messaggio di
Morec0
MorecofRivendare
Says: You speak of unlocking? Of staying on topic? I will show you the knowledge of the
loremaster
... and the true meaning of roleplaying.
Heh, couldn't think of any other better LK quote...
Messaggio di
ArgentSun
On topic, I said.
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