Assessing all the options [4.1]

Messaggio di asakawa

The information in this thread is intended to be a useful reference for people to be able to properly assess the various choices we have as Warlocks in the PvE game

Patch 4.2 update

With relatively minor changes in patch 4.2 I'm going to save an overhaul of this thread for 4.3 at which point I will also use profiles with a higher item level. Rising gear levels through 4.2 will increase the numbers involved but the relative differences between the various options should remain largely the same

Table of Contents

Introduction

Ilvl 346 Stat Weights
BiS Stat Weights
Notes

Introduction

The tendency with this game is to boil everything down to right and wrong. You're either doing things the absolutely optimal way or you're doing it all wrong.

This approach is fine when the difference between option A and option B is a 20% drop in DPS but the game is more complicated now with many more options than ever before. The difference is never that great but our theorycrafting tools are more finely honed and more than equal to the task of quantifying the subtle differences.

My goal with this thread is to look at all the options and try to put a figure to them so we can all see for ourselves exactly how much we stand to lose by making a "sub optimal" decision and decide for ourselves how important it really is.

I'm going to base all these figures on the ilvl 346 set I recently used to make stat weights since it represents at decently balanced, hit-capped gear set. The important thing is that each simulation only changes a single property. The gear will be the same throughout.

If this thread becomes a useful resource then it may be appropriate to go over the tests with different gear sets as we move through the expansion's tiers.

All Simulations are Patchwerk fights, 450seconds long with a 20% variance. I've used 1000 iterations for most tests with 10,000 for very fine differences.

Demonology

Glyphs

DPSDifferencePercentage

No Glyphs 19443
Prime Glyphs
Glifo Carbonizzato 19742 + 299 +1.538%
Glifo Carbonizzato 19592 + 149 +0.766%
Glifo Carbonizzato 19533 + 90 +0.463%
Glifo Carbonizzato 19508 + 65 +0.334%

Major Glyphs
Glifo Carbonizzato 19472 + 29 +0.149%
Glifo Carbonizzato 19469 + 26 +0.134%

Pet-specific Prime Glyphs
Succubus with no glyphs 18125
Glifo Carbonizzato 19139 +1014 +5.594%

Imp with no glyphs 17871
Glifo Carbonizzato 18618 + 747 +4.180%

Felguard with no glyphs 17963
Glifo - Vilguardia 18052 + 89 +0.495%

Pets

DPSDifferencePercentage

Evocazione: Vilsegugio 20012
Evocazione: Succube 19608 - 404 -2.019%
Evocazione: Imp 19140 - 872 -4.357%
Evocazione: Vilguardia 18523 -1489 -7.441%

Evocazione: Demone Guardiano 20012
Evocazione: Infernale 19597

Talents

DPSDifferencePercentagePer Talent Point

Demonology only 18294
Without Emberstorm 19545
20012 + 467 +2.389% 1.194%
18872 + 578 +3.160% 1.053%
18602 + 308 +1.684% 0.842%
18695 + 401 +2.192% 0.731%
18472 + 178 +0.973% 0.324%

Enchants

DPSDifferencePercentage

Weapon Enchants
No Enchant 19526
Torrente di Potere 19870 +344 +1.762%
Potenza Magica Vigorosa 19654 +128 +0.655%
Uragano 19613 +87 +0.445%

Races

DPSDifferencePercentage
Orco 20835 523 2.575%
Troll 20728 416 2.048%
Worgen 20479 167 0.822%
Goblin 20465 153 0.753%
Non Morto 20312-
Elfo del Sangue 20326-
Gnomo 20342-
Umano 20316-
Nano 20317-

Professions

DPSDifferencePercentage

No Professions 20306
Sartoria 20702 396 1.950%
Ingegneria 20652 346 1.704%
Forgiatura 20526 220 1.083%
Conciatura * 20632 326 1.605%
Alchimia 20550 244 1.202%
Incantamento 20522 216 1.064%
Oreficeria 20539 233 1.148%
Runografia 20532 226 1.113%
Erbalismo 20437 131 0.645%
Scuoiatura 20373 67 0.330%
Estrazione 20307-

* The differences between the professions that all provide 80 Intellect seen here is just simulation noise. Leatherworking's value is inflated because the 130 Int enchant replaces 50 haste in these tests rather than the more expensive 50 Int *

Other Options

DPSDifferencePercentage

Incenerimento as filler with modified build 19680 -332 -1.659%
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Messaggio di asakawa

Destruction

Glyphs

DPSDifferencePercentage

No Glyphs 18783
Prime Glyphs

Glifo Carbonizzato 19338 +555 +2.955%
Glifo Carbonizzato 19117 +334 +1.778%
Glifo Carbonizzato 18999 +216 +1.150%
Glifo Carbonizzato 18951 +168 +0.894%
Glifo Carbonizzato 18804 + 21 +0.112%

Shadowburn test* - no glyphs 18690
Glifo Svanito 18746 +56 0.300%

Major Glyphs
Glifo Carbonizzato 18807 + 24 +0.127%

* Done using SimCraft version 4.1.0 release 10

Pets

DPSDifferencePercentage

Evocazione: Imp 19963
Evocazione: Vilsegugio 19791 -172 -0.861%
Evocazione: Succube 19201 -762 -3.817%

Evocazione: Demone Guardiano 19963
Evocazione: Infernale 19989

Talents

DPSDifferencePercentagePer Talent Point

Destruction only 18570
19558 +988 +5.320% 1.773%
Without Mana Feed 19558
19843 +285 +1.457% 0.364%
18647 + 77 +0.415% 0.208%
18679 +109 +0.587% 0.196%

Enchants

DPSDifferencePercentage
Weapon Enchants
No Enchant 19849
Torrente di Potere 20207 +358 +1.803%
Potenza Magica Vigorosa 19994 +145 +0.731%
Uragano 19962 +113 +0.569%

Races

DPSDifferencePercentage
Orco 20533 367 1.820%
Troll 20444 278 1.379%
Worgen 20309 143 0.709%
Goblin 20298 132 0.655%
Non Morto 20166 -
Elfo del Sangue 20190-

Gnomo 20205-
Umano 20175-
Nano 20172-

Professions

DPSDifferencePercentage

No Professions 20151
Sartoria 20563 412 2.045%
Ingegneria 20451 300 1.489%
Conciatura * 20476 325 1.613%
Forgiatura 20383 232 1.151%
Alchimia 20392 241 1.196%
Oreficeria 20379 228 1.131%
Runografia 20379 228 1.131%
Incantamento 20391 240 1.191%
Erbalismo 20284 133 0.660%
Scuoiatura 20221 70 0.347%
Estrazione 20150 -

* The differences between the professions that all provide 80 Intellect seen here is just simulation noise. Leatherworking's value is inflated because the 130 Int enchant replaces 50 haste in these tests rather than the more expensive 50 Int *

Other Options

DPSDifferencePercentage

Affliction - Shadow Bolt Filler

Glyph Options

DPSDifferencePercentage

No Glyphs 20640
Prime Glyphs
Glifo Carbonizzato 20891 +251 +1.216%
Glifo Carbonizzato 20724 + 84 +0.407%
Glifo Carbonizzato 20664 + 24 +0.116%

Major Glyphs
Glifo Carbonizzato 20675 +35 +0.169%
Glifo Carbonizzato 20658 +18 +0.087%

Pet Options

DPSDifferencePercentage

Evocazione: Vilsegugio 21040
Evocazione: Succube 20147 -893 -4.244%
Evocazione: Imp 19730 -1310 -6.226%

Evocazione: Demone Guardiano 21040
Evocazione: Infernale 21033

Talent Options

DPSDifferencePercentagePer Talent Point

Affliction only 19791
20238 +447 +2.259% 0.753%
20228 +437 +2.208% 0.736%
20097 +306 +1.546% 0.513%

No Mana Feed 20228
20369 +141 +0.697% 0.174%

Enchant Options

DPSDifferencePercentage
Weapon Enchants
No Enchant 20924
Torrente di Potere 21304 +380 +1.816%
Potenza Magica Vigorosa 21080 +156 +0.746%
Uragano 21044 +120 +0.574%

Races

DPSDifferencePercentage
Orco 21705 484 2.280%
Troll 21555 334 1.574%
Goblin 21384 163 0.768%
Worgen 21375 154 0.726%
Non Morto 21221 -
Elfo del Sangue 21224 -

Gnomo 21222 -
Umano 21237 -
Nano 21223 -

Professions

DPSDifferencePercentage

No Professions 21219
Sartoria 21602 383 1.805%
Ingegneria 21565 346 1.631%
Conciatura *21531 312 1.470%
Forgiatura 21446 227 1.070%
Alchimia 21445 226 1.065%
Oreficeria 21439 220 1.037%
Runografia 21447 228 1.075%
Incantamento 21450 231 1.089%
Erbalismo 21347 128 0.603%
Scuoiatura 21269 50 0.236%
Estrazione 21221 -

* The differences between the professions that all provide 80 Intellect seen here is just simulation noise. Leatherworking's value is inflated because the 130 Int enchant replaces 50 haste in these tests rather than the more expensive 50 Int *

Other Options

DPSDifferencePercentage

Agonia with Glifo Carbonizzato 20565 -475 -2.258%

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Messaggio di asakawa

Affliction - Drain Life Filler

Glyph Options

DPSDifferencePercentage

No Glyphs 20817
Prime Glyphs
Glifo Carbonizzato 21134 +317 +1.523%
Glifo Carbonizzato 20866 +49 +0.235%
Glifo Carbonizzato 20820 +3 +0.014%

Major Glyphs
Glifo Carbonizzato 20835 +18 +0.086%

Pet Options

DPSDifferencePercentage

Evocazione: Vilsegugio 21229
Evocazione: Succube 20135 -1094 -5.153%
Evocazione: Imp 19600 -1629 -7.673%

Evocazione: Demone Guardiano 21229
Evocazione: Infernale 21235

Talent Options

DPSDifferencePercentagePer Talent Point

Affliction only 20451
20933 +482 +2.357% 0.786%
Without Manafeed 20933
21149 +216 +1.031% 0.258%
20522 +71 +0.347% 0.116%

Enchant Options

DPSDifferencePercentage
Weapon Enchants
No Enchant 21115

Torrente di Potere 21504 +389 +1.842%
Potenza Magica Vigorosa 21268 +153 +0.725%
Uragano 21223 +108 +0.511%

Races

DPSDifferencePercentage
Orco 22132 507 2.344%
Troll 21946 321 1.484%
Goblin 21782 157 0.726%
Worgen 21759 134 0.620%
Non Morto 21625 -
Elfo del Sangue 21626 -

Gnomo 21637 -
Umano 21620 -
Nano 21618 -

Professions

DPSDifferencePercentage

No Professions 21620
Sartoria 21988 368 1.702%
Ingegneria 21983 363 1.679%
Conciatura *21941 321 1.485%
Forgiatura 21852 232 1.073%
Alchimia 21849 229 1.059%
Oreficeria 21863 243 1.124%
Runografia 21852 232 1.073%
Incantamento 21867 247 1.142%
Erbalismo 21755 135 0.624%
Scuoiatura 21684 64 0.296%
Estrazione 21622 -

* The differences between the professions that all provide 80 Intellect seen here is just simulation noise. Leatherworking's value is inflated because the 130 Int enchant replaces 50 haste in these tests rather than the more expensive 50 Int *

Other Options

DPSDifferencePercentage

Agonia with Glifo Carbonizzato 20774 -455 -2.143%

Stat Weights

Sta Int SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery

Demonology http://chardev.org/?profile=107872 Wowhead

Scale Factors 0.0000 2.7145 2.1282 1.5238 0.8879 0.8748 1.0166
Normalized 0.0000 1.0000 0.7840 0.5614 0.3271 0.3223 0.3745

Destruction http://chardev.org/?profile=107873 Wowhead

Scale Factors 0.0000 2.7982 2.2000 1.6016 0.8866 1.1438 0.8042
Normalized 0.0000 1.0000 0.7862 0.5724 0.3169 0.4088 0.2874

Affliction - SB http://chardev.org/?profile=107875 Wowhead

Scale Factors 0.0000 2.9115 2.3381 1.2986 0.9019 1.1150 0.7125
Normalized 0.0000 1.0000 0.8030 0.4460 0.3098 0.3830 0.2447

Affliction - Drain http://chardev.org/?profile=107876 Wowhead

Scale Factors 0.0000 3.0368 2.4375 1.2654 1.0036 1.0990 0.9454
Normalized 0.0000 1.0000 0.8027 0.4167 0.3305 0.3619 0.3113

BiS stat weights for reference:

Int SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery
AffDrain_T11_359_PTR 3.2180 2.5176 1.7816 1.2152 1.3696 1.0367
AffDrain_T11_372_PTR 3.3616 2.6421 1.9833 1.3267 1.4029 1.2137
Affliction_T11_359_PTR 3.1278 2.4991 1.7165 1.1305 1.3472 0.8621
Affliction_T11_372_PTR 3.2781 2.5878 1.9391 1.2908 1.4997 0.9855
Demonology_T11_359_PTR 2.8564 2.2350 2.0756 1.0934 1.1267 1.2023
Demonology_T11_372_PTR 2.9974 2.3628 2.3271 1.1955 1.1183 1.3699
Destruction_T11_359_PTR 2.9993 2.3045 2.1277 1.0963 1.3032 0.9844
Destruction_T11_372_PTR 3.1103 2.4173 2.4708 1.2068 1.4148 1.1100

Notes

Mana Feed's "per point" value is worked out at costing four talent points since 2 points must be spent on non-DPS increasing talents to reach it.
The Bane of Agony numbers in the Affliction specs also use the glyph and replace the Glyph of Unstable Affliction (lowest value prime).
Different pet options all use the pet's glyph if it has one. This always replaces the lowest value prime glyph.
Professions tests only include enchants/gems, passive and active abilities and not special BoP gear items that the professions provide. This may mean that engineering, Jewelcrafting and Alchemy provide a greater benefit to you than shown here but you will have to assess that for yourself based on your current gear set.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##

Messaggio di asakawa

Well, that's completed the majority of what I set out to achieve initially. I've got some ideas for refining and expanding but I would welcome feedback on ways I can make the info easier to read or any other interesting options we have as warlocks that I should include.

Messaggio di Metalfenrir

I can't even begin to describe how awesome this thread is. Such words don't exist in the English language. I didn't break out the fine tooth comb, but everything looks incredibly solid.

+1337 internets to you good sir.

Messaggio di TheVorago

props for the most beautiful layout I've so far seen in a wowhead thread Asa :)
and of course for the research. Keep up the great work!

Messaggio di tugipus

This is incredibly helpful. Well done. You are the main reason i dont suck at my occasional PvE excursions ;o)

Messaggio di LookOut

\o/

Very nicely done!

Although a small pet peeve: why put affli last? It's in first place when you check out the talent tree :p Not that it matters much, it just seems a tiny bit odd to start with demo and finish with affli :)

Messaggio di asakawa

Thanks all. I'm glad it will be something people find useful.

@Lookout, honestly it all started because I'm geeky enough that I was just running a few tests on Demo for myself (wanting to know the actual difference between pets and what the different options for a third glyph were) and once I was started I just carried on ^_^

Plus, Aff always goes first by default. I think it's good for Demo to go first for once.

Messaggio di LookOut

kk it's all good ^_^

Messaggio di 220291

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Messaggio di 756794

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Messaggio di asakawa

So SB affli spec: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#IrGr0hsGsdcZI:sMRoVzMo ?

Yeah. After spending 9 points on DPS increasing talents the SB spec has a point left over that you can put in something useful in affliction (as you did going for SB:SoC) or just increasing health with 1/3 Demonic Embrace.

With that said though, the FAQ should be advising you on the absolute optimal. What I'm interested in with this thread is questions like:
"So now I'm being told to use BoD instead of BoA as Affliction, is that really a big increase or can I stick with what I'm used to?"
or:
"I could really use an interrupt on my raid's Nefarian attempts. Do I lose a ton of DPS if I use the Felhunter?"

Messaggio di LookOut

Asakawa, for some reason your posts are starting to give me scrollbars up the a-hole ...

Messaggio di asakawa

Hmm, that's interesting.
Any better now? Using table tags should scale everything to the user's own window but perhaps that's not always the case.

Do the main posts in this thread use scrollbars too?

Messaggio di 539323

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Messaggio di asakawa

Hehe, you think there's enough stuff there for a ToC?
Happy to do one of course ^_^

Messaggio di 539323

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Messaggio di Gnub

Added to the list of Helpful Threads - loving the layout, very well done :)

Messaggio di asakawa

Thanks Mr Gnu!

ToC added ganimede, just for you ^_^

Assessing all the options [4.1]

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