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3.3.3 Holy Paladin end-game PvE guide [Outdated 4.0+]
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Messaggio di
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
pezz
Hopefully not a bribe, I'm a college student.
Messaggio di
228908
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
pezz
In any case, I've put both options in the guide. People are welcome to research the numbers if they wish, but this isn't EJ. I'm not going to obsess over a difference of like 8 spell power in terms of which gems people use, as long as this guide allows them to get a good grasp on the basics. I think putting both options for reaching your meta requirement up is enough.
I'm not trying to force anyone to stop this argument, mind. If someone wants to get numbers to prove which gemming idea is better please do put it here. I'm just saying that I'm not going to give such needlessly specific advice for something which is only going to give people an extra 8 spell power or whatever.
Messaggio di
228908
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
134104
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
pezz
I guess at the end of the day these are all playstyle figures though.
Really it's a question of different stat weightings at different content and different gear levels. I barely scraped through high school math though, so I'm not going to try to figure out what those weightings are.
Messaggio di
Brique
I didn't scrape through high school math. In fact, I failed miserably at it.
Check my math if you want, but I found it was still that 20 Intellect would give you more MP5 than a 10 MP5 gem.
If you think gemming an orange and green gem would get you more, you're sorely mistaken. Take the time, do the math, show me that it actually is superior, because I believe what I figured out until you give me some solid proof other than an
allusion to some "math you did."
Gemming with a Nightmare Tear and full Brilliant King's Amber will get you the highest possible Intellect you can.
My advice is gem for Intellect. Spellpower, Haste, Crit, and MP5 from your gear and buffs will supplement whatever content you're doing as long as you have gear that is above a 187 ilvl. In 3.2, you're seeing more people on the "cutting edge" of gear than ever before, so I'm going to say that gear does not matter at all. I still think MP5 is a bad stat, and I've never been starved for mana. I don't think stacking SP is necessary, because no time has a 15k crit been "barely enough" to heal a tank. Stacking Haste isn't too necessary, mostly because of the Judgements of the Just talent supplementing such a huge chunk of it, and anything supplemental from your gear is welcome but never needed. Crit used to be our major source of mana regen, and it still is even after being halved, and it's also constantly random. Intellect is the most reliable choice to improve your character. Prove to me I'm wrong. I would love to say I'd have best-in-slot gear equiped, but I do not. It's whatever upgrade my raid will allow me to have. I'm sure a lot of other players are similar, so I'd say you're going to have MP5, Haste, and Crit in a strange imbalance all the time, and there can be some minor changes in order to make the best of what you can get. If you find your gear is lacking in Haste, then be sure to be judging as often as you're allowed to by an encounter, for example.
I flask with whatever was cheaper on the AH. It's a tossup for me. If I have a good supply of Flasks of Pure Mojo instead of Flasks of the Frost Wyrm, then that's my choice for the night. If I had a reliable way to obtain the Flask of Distilled Wisdom, I would jump on it. I did on my priest back in TBC as a bored Herbalist/Alchemist, but hunting the AH all week for the materials or the finished product is never stable on my server. Maybe somewhere else it's different. While it's not nearly as much regen as 45 MP5, I still find the scaling and various bonuses just further improve your character, while MP5 is a flat stat. I use a combination of
Guru's Elixir
and
Elixir of Mighty Thoughts
if the materials are cheap. They provide the same 65 Intellect that you see on the flask.
For a 3.2 guide, this seems to want to "noob proof" people that don't have a clue how to play the class.
Messaggio di
valundar
I didn't scrape through high school math. In fact, I failed miserably at it.
Check my math if you want, but I found it was still that 20 Intellect would give you more MP5 than a 10 MP5 gem.
If you think gemming an orange and green gem would get you more, you're sorely mistaken. Take the time, do the math, show me that it actually is superior, because I believe what I figured out until you give me some solid proof other than an
allusion to some "math you did."
Gemming with a Nightmare Tear and full Brilliant King's Amber will get you the highest possible Intellect you can.
My advice is gem for Intellect. Spellpower, Haste, Crit, and MP5 from your gear and buffs will supplement whatever content you're doing as long as you have gear that is above a 187 ilvl. In 3.2, you're seeing more people on the "cutting edge" of gear than ever before, so I'm going to say that gear does not matter at all. I still think MP5 is a bad stat, and I've never been starved for mana. I don't think stacking SP is necessary, because no time has a 15k crit been "barely enough" to heal a tank. Stacking Haste isn't too necessary, mostly because of the Judgements of the Just talent supplementing such a huge chunk of it, and anything supplemental from your gear is welcome but never needed. Crit used to be our major source of mana regen, and it still is even after being halved, and it's also constantly random. Intellect is the most reliable choice to improve your character. Prove to me I'm wrong. I would love to say I'd have best-in-slot gear equiped, but I do not. It's whatever upgrade my raid will allow me to have. I'm sure a lot of other players are similar, so I'd say you're going to have MP5, Haste, and Crit in a strange imbalance all the time, and there can be some minor changes in order to make the best of what you can get. If you find your gear is lacking in Haste, then be sure to be judging as often as you're allowed to by an encounter, for example.
I flask with whatever was cheaper on the AH. It's a tossup for me. If I have a good supply of Flasks of Pure Mojo instead of Flasks of the Frost Wyrm, then that's my choice for the night. If I had a reliable way to obtain the Flask of Distilled Wisdom, I would jump on it. I did on my priest back in TBC as a bored Herbalist/Alchemist, but hunting the AH all week for the materials or the finished product is never stable on my server. Maybe somewhere else it's different. While it's not nearly as much regen as 45 MP5, I still find the scaling and various bonuses just further improve your character, while MP5 is a flat stat. I use a combination of
Guru's Elixir
and
Elixir of Mighty Thoughts
if the materials are cheap. They provide the same 65 Intellect that you see on the flask.
For a 3.2 guide, this seems to want to "noob proof" people that don't have a clue how to play the class.
The problem with you math is divine plea.
You assume that you will be using this on cd.
Once you dont use it on every 1 min cd, Int no longer wins.
That said... it still is a great choice.
I dont see a wrong answer here.
Messaggio di
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
carmelita
Holy Shock(HS)
This is your instant heal, for when someone absolutely needs to have a (small) amount of health returned instantly. It heals for an amount somewhere between FoL and HL. Ultimately, if everything is going right, you won't be using this too often, especially because of its cooldown, but keep it somewhere on your action bar, or give it a keybind where you can get to it quickly and easily, because you'll always need to fire off a Holy Shock on someone quickly at some point.
You are very wrong if u think that it is some random spell u have and u won't be using it too often. Dude, HS is best spell after BoL we have. I use it whenever cd is up, awesome for healing up tank, great when raid gets aoe dmg - use it in the middle of HL and FoL casts etc. And also HS crit's are great for instant FoL as HS crit almost always. Those crits are kinda cool, too. with my gear i get 12k crits very often.
Also, glyphs - BoL glyph saves u more mana than u think and should be deffo used before Divinity one. U can get your LoH to 11min cd, that's great, ofc, but with glyphed BoL mana save is bigger, than gain from LoH as mana pot. There is a theorycraft about this in elitistjerks.com. Also, it is wise to use LoH on tank, when he needs most healing to reduce dmg taken and that is more important than your fake mana pot. Tank dead = raid dead.
Blessing of freedom - not only pvp spell. can be used also in pve for example - removes Iron roots from player on Freya hard mode.
Messaggio di
387114
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Messaggio di
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
134104
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
Bethia
For a 3.2 guide, this seems to want to "noob proof" people that don't have a clue how to play the class.
I disagree! I've recently dual-specced holy and it's been a great guide for an ol' 80 ret pally to get up to speed with the spec. I can manage gear selection myself but the use of spells/glyphs/gemming has been immensely helpful!
As I've experienced with my priest, most healers are generous with advice and resist calling names. :P
Messaggio di
Rouen
but with glyphed BoL mana save is bigger, than gain from LoH as mana pot. There is a theorycraft about this in elitistjerks.com
Beacon costs around 1400 mana (with Glyph of SoW). Over a 9 minute fight, you will prevent casting 3 Beacons with Glyph of Beacon. 1400x3 = 4200 mana.
Divinity gives you 7800 mana when used as a mana pot.
7800 > 4200.
If you have a fight shorter than 9 minutes, Divinity wins out by even more. If the fight is longer than 9 mins, Divinity wins out by even more (since you'll be able to use LoH again).
So how does Glyph of Beacon work better than Glyph of Divinity and using LoH as a mana pot?
I generally agree with most of what YJMark says about holy pallys on the forums, but I think in this case you run into a difference of opinon amongst other fellow pallys.
For a minute, I'm going to assume YJMark's math is correct. I say that not because I think he is wrong, but because I don't feel like doing the math at the moment.
I used the Divinity Glyph myself for a long time, but I found that I never needed to use it on myself. In cases where I found myself spamming HL so much that I went OOM, the raid was doomed to wipe because something had gone catastrophically wrong and it wasn't because the tank died.
This means that me, personally, found greater mana savings using the Beacon of Light glyph because I never needed to use LoH on myself. I feel that GoBoL has more constant, reliable mana savings over the long run and saves a valuable potentially-raid saving CD for the tank. Let's not forget the Imp LoH damage reduction for those who spec into it. That makes the 2 talent points are wasted if used on yourself.
As for the "SoW/JoW Meleez For Manaz" discussion, I do this every single chance I get. To date, I have never gone OOM in Ulduar or the 10 man ToC (Not enough guildies for 25 man anymore). Roughly every 2 to 3 melee hits gives me (assuming 25.5k mana raid buffed and my weapon speed is 1.6) 1020 mana back. If you have the Libram of Renewal, you made back enough for a HL. If I'm good on mana and another holy pally is running low, I yell for him to melee for mana and cover his targets. Even better, the greater the mana pool of the pally, the more mana he gets back per proc.
Edit: I also advocate the use of libram swapping depending on the situation. I use the
Deady Gladiator's Libram of Justice
for even tank healing during low damage times and swap in
Libram of Renewal
for heavy damage periods.
Messaggio di
Brique
I swapped from the Divinity glyph to Glyph of Beacon of Light during 3.2. I've used Lay on Hands as a clutch heal ever since. I think that's better than the mana argument, it loses there. I don't see the need for the massive mana regen anymore, but I do like keeping my mana on the most expensive spell I cast.
As I've experienced with my priest, most healers are generous with advice and resist calling names. :P
Because healers are motherly. They're feminine and non-confrontational. Right? Stereotypical stereotypes are what dumb people fall back on for prejudices. I fell back on noob, which is the clear way of saying "idiot" without any mistake that this person could have done better. I resisted calling anyone a name, and it does exactly what I said. It "noob proofs" people that don't have a clue what a Flash of Light does. Now you know. It "noob proofed" you. Now you don't have an excuse when you go OOM from spamming Holy Light, when you should have been looking at what you were doing and queuing up Flash of Light instead about 75% of the time.
Messaggio di
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Messaggio di
valundar
The problem with you math is divine plea.
You assume that you will be using this on cd.
Once you dont use it on every 1 min cd, Int no longer wins.
Actually, Int still wins. Check my math in the post above his. It uses Divine Plea every 2 mins, and Int still wins (when comparing 20 Int to 10 MP5...and assuming my math is correct)
For 100 int
37.8125 mp5 if you were to Divine Plea every minute
16.18800 mp5 from Replenishment
4.46500 mp5 from Arcane Torrent if you're a Blood Elf.
Total: 58.4655 /10 = 5.84655 X2(since its a 20 int gem) =
11.6931 mp/5 for BE with Divine torrent.
10.8001 mp/5 for all others
BUT:
18.90625 mp5 if you were to Divine Plea every 2 minutes
16.18800 mp5 from Replenishment
4.46500 mp5 from Arcane Torrent if you're a Blood Elf.
Total: 39.55925 /10 = 3.955925 X2(since its a 20 int gem) =
7.91185 mp/5 for BE with Divine torrent.
7.01885 mp/5 for all others
Is the int still better? Id say so since it also gives starting mana and some crit.
But don't count out mp/5. It gives similar (sometimes better) regen without any action necessary.
EDIT:
Has anyone done the maths on Judging SoW?
That could come into play here as well...
Im guessing that if you can (and you should) judge all the time... that the additional mp/5 gained from the int may tip the scale..... but still.. its close enough that using mp/5 gems wont make you a moron.
Messaggio di
svirve
Has anyone done the maths on Judging SoW?
That could come into play here as well...
Im guessing that if you can (and you should) judge all the time... that the additional mp/5 gained from the int may tip the scale..... but still.. its close enough that using mp/5 gems wont make you a moron.
There is no math to be done..
Judging will give you mana. It might not give you a SoW proc each judgement but when it does it will give you 400% mana back, and that's only on a 20k mana pool.
And since there are up to 4 different SoW procs that can occur when judging the chances of not gaining mana from a judgement are very very slim.
I dont see why i have had to say this 3 times already...
If you need math to understand this i feel sorry for you.
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