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Commentaire de Hanos

Mutilate is a skill that will not really come into it's own until after level 60, the combination of Mutilate with Envenom and then higher ranks of Deadly Poison will make it a very powerful and versitile spec. I was playing around with it on the test realm, and on live last night, and it is great for dueling/PvP. The problem with it, is that it will not have the same level of sustained DPS that a combat spec will, due to the loss of Precision, Duel Wield Spec, Improved Backstab, and Dagger Spec.

That being said if you aren't willing to go Combat Daggers, or you are looking for a PvP Dagger Spec, try a Mutilate spec with some points in the poison talents.

Commentaire de Sebas

Many who use this talent feel underwhelmed at first, but don't be discouraged! You aren't really doing less damage than backstab. The numbers popping up on your screen may look smaller, but you must remember that there are TWO of them! Many people have respecced out of mutilate because they didn't THINK they were doing damage but they were.

If you put points into +% chance for poisons to be applied, there is almost always a poison on your target before your cheap shot ends. Because of this, your damage is increased by 50%. Here's a bit of an idea of what you can do to make mutilate do more damage:

Improved Poisons: increased chance of applying poisons help guarantee that your first mutilate will do +50% damage.

+50% damage

Opportunity: Mutilate damage increased by 20%

+70% damage

Find Weaknesses: 10% increased damage after a finishing move.

+80% damage (after a finisher)

Improved Kidney Shot: +9% increased damage after a kidney shot.

+89% damage (after KS)

you can also max out Lethality to increase the damage bonus of a critical strike with mutilate by 30%

Mutilate may still have trouble when fighting tanks, but it tears through cloth and leather like nothing.

Decent mutilate spec: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=ihe0oxTsizVoZAM

Commentaire de pingzing

Having tried out Mutilate briefly myself, I am a big fan of it.
A few important things to know:

1.) You need to be DUAL-WIELDING daggers. A dagger in the main-hand and sword/mace/whatever in the offhand isn't gonna work.
2.) Poisons, poisons, poisons. If the enemy doesn't have a Poison debuff on them, Mutilate will do 50% less damage than if they were poisoned. For now, Deadly is ideal as it does damage nearly comparable to Instant, but breaks Gouge. Not a big deal in PvE, just wait for 70 energy until you Kidney Shot, but in PvP, consider a non-damaging poison.

3.) This is very gear dependent. You need two good, slow, high damage daggers for it to work well.

4.) It's damage is NOT as reliable as Backstab, as it's crit chance is not as high (with Imp Backstab, anyway) but both hands crit separately, so this makes getting 3 combo points with Seal Fate a very common thing. Combo point generation is so high that in a raiding environment you can get a 5-point Slice and Dice going, throw a Rupture and Eviscerate in there, and still have SnD up...without Imp SnD. So a good chunk of your damage will come from your specials.

5.) Mathematically, Opportunity is better than Dual-Wield Specialization for DPS. Spec that instead of going down Combat.

For the TLDR crowd: Dual wield daggers, slow high damage range ones, Deadly Poison for PvE, Crippling and Wound/MNumbing for PvP, lots of combo points, get Opportunity not Dual-Wield Spec.

Commentaire de 9635

Mutilate (Rank 3) vs. Backstab (Rank 9). This was directly taken from World of Ming and clarified in my own words. All percents are expressed as fractions (125% = 1.25). The AP is normalized for both due to the normalization that occurred in one of the previous patches because slow weapons hit too hard.

Take a minute to look at how it is formatted if you havent already. The damage is averaged for our purposes. MW is does not change for both backstab and mutilate. OW denotes the OFF HAND weapon damage.

Main Hand Weapon Damage (MW) = (Low End Weapon Damage + High End Weapon Damage) / 2 + (AP/14*1.7)

The MW times 1.5 + 225 is the normal backstab without any talents. The 1.2 multiplier is opportunity with 5 points (increases damage of backstab by 20%). Yielding the following for Backstab:

Backstab Before Crit Chance: (MW * 1.5 + 225) * 1.2 = 1.8 WD + 270

The next calculation is backstab with crit chance factored in to yield the average damage with Backstab. As you can see the first part of the formula is taken from the formula before crit (the one just above). This damage is doubled with a crit. The second part is given the 1.3 multiplier from lethality (30% extra damage on backstab crits). The .3 is the extra crit from imp backstab (30% increased backstab crit chance).

Backstab 9 After Crit Chance: (1.8 MW + 270) + (1.8 MW + 270) * 1.3 * (Crit +.3)

This is the mutilate portion of the formula. MH and OH are increased by 88 damage. The 1.2 comes again from opportunity (Adding 20% damage to mutilate). We assume that the target is poisoned (In raids it almost ALWAYS is and in PvP you should have poisons on). As you can see the formulas for MH and OH are the same:
MH Mutilate: (MW + 88) * 1.2 * 1.5 = 1.8 MW + 158
OH Mutilate: (OW + 88) * 1.2 * 1.5 = 1.8 OW + 158

Let%u2019s factor in average damage with crit:

MH Mutilate After Crit Chance: (1.8MW + 158) + (1.8MW + 158) * 1.3 * (Crit Chance)
OH Mutilate After Crit Chance: (1.8OW + 158) + (1.8OW + 158) * 1.3 * (Crit Chance)

Our total damage for mutilate is the two combined. Now if one were to calculate this out with dual GM daggers 1000 AP and 27% crit we would get the following:
Average Backstab: 1223.5
Average Mutilate: 1305
As you can see mutilate out performs backstab for the same amount of energy.

Now for my analysis with Perditions and AQ20 set dagger:
PvP It is awesome I tear almost anything apart with BWL/AQ40 gear. The CP generation is great (statistically better than hemo). Basically its: CS -> Mut -> KS -> Mutilate -> Gouge -> (optional) Mutilate -> Eviscerate. This works well as the mutilate is increased by find weakness and imp kidney shot. Posions are always up for me (I use crippling and mind numbing).

PvE It is awesome as well. I know a dagger rogue who hit 700-800 dps on faerlina in naxx whereas before he would be around 500 (he combat was swords). I have noticed that with full raid buffs this can hit together for nearly 3k damage. The CP rotation is basically just: Ambush -> Mut*(1-2) -> SnD -> Mut*(1-3) -> Evis -> etc. Works well as far as I saw in dps meters.

10 Notes:

1) Mutilate can only yield up to 3 combo points.
2) Backstab has an inherently higher crit rate because of talents.
3) Mutilates damage is increased by poisons.
4) This is AVERAGE damage, they can crit higher.
5) While backstab is better with +5 damage, mutilate is usually better with +15 agility as crit chance matters more to mutilate and backstab multipliers and crit are higher.
6) Cold blood only makes the main hand necessarily crit (save it for ambush unless need CP generation).
7) Both MH and OH have chance to proc trinkets, abilities and poisons.
8) Remorseless attacks applies to mutilate.
9) Mutilate from what I have seen is more gear dependent than the more weapon dependent move being backstab.
10) The dual wield hit reduction does not apply in mutilate as both attacks are considered special attacks.

I MAY HAVE MADE ERRORS (if so please tell me) (move topic to mutilate 3 please)

Commentaire de Ryjin

Mutilate is a very good skill with the proper gear. With 2 GM daggers I've seen it hit for over 2500 on clothies. That is pretty insane in my opinion.

Commentaire de Wakako

Great Ability And unless you are a Night elf Female rogue and hate not having an Animation for Mutilate You'll love it

Commentaire de dahehe

Mutilate for pve:
u can do 41/20/0 http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=wuxbogrsizVo0eV0bV
it can be altered more to ur liking it does more dmg constantly for pve as i've seen
say ur 41/0/20 or so and doing 1.3k and 600-700 mutilates as 41/20 u'll go from doing 1.3k/6 or so to more of 1.1k/1.1k it'll even out ur weapon hit/crits alot more

Commentaire de 66469

Even more notes :) :

It's not viable Arena skill/spec, use it to have fun if you like, not for Rating boost
It's better than Backstab/Combat, but if you have fast superior Offhand dagger - roll 15/41/5
41/20/0 only viable Multilate PvE spec with ~10% better dps (PvE!) than any variation of 41/0/5+
This build have complicated rotation in raid/group, which makes it one of the best wow specs for players who bored with 1-strike spamming:
Use finishing moovies with 4/5cp, with 3cp only if Find weakness fading (rare), Don't use finishings if you have less than 80 energy and both S'n'D and find Weakness up
You need to keep Slice'n'Dice, even if you have 1cp when it's fading
Use Rapture if you have more than 4 seconds on S'n'D, use Eviscerate if you have more than 6 seconds on both Rapture and S'n'D and more than 80 energy (rare). Don't use Rapture on Trash
No need to care about Find weakness if you going to renew S'n'D with next finishing
Don't focus on Find weakness, it's not that good, but notice: rogue who lost this buff during fight either noob or unreal unlucky
Using Multilate on targets that aren't poisoned yet still better than Shiv. Shiv is only nice when target was CC'ed, tank just picked it up and u have full energy. Opening will look like Shiv->Slice'n'Dice-> Multilate
Primary farm rotation is CheapShot-> Multilate->KidneyShot -> Multilate -> Eviscerate/Envenom + Sinister Strike if unlucky, since it doesn't require any food or bandages to use ever
Poisons are Deadly-x-2 or Instant+Deadly for farm, Anastesic+Deadly for group, Mindnumbling/Wound+Cripple for PvP
You can use Multilate with deadly poison even when solo - just wait for next tick of poison -> gouge -> miltilate. Gouge crit gives 2cp as well

Commentaire de daurenr

Average Backstab: 1223.5
Average Mutilate: 1305

but Mutilate suffers more from armor reduction, since:
MH Mutilate =1.8 MW + 158 - armor reduction
OH Mutilate = 1.8 OW + 158 - armor reduction

in raids Bosses have relatively high damage reduction

even when hitting clothies, armor reduction applies twice for Mutilate, which can make Backstab more appealing

Commentaire de Octinomos

5.) Mathematically, Opportunity is better than Dual-Wield Specialization for DPS. Spec that instead of going down Combat.

Could anybody confirm this ?

Main Hand Weapon Damage (MW) = (Low End Weapon Damage + High End Weapon Damage) / 2 + (AP/14*1.7)

Furthermore, are you sure about these calculations ? Are you sure it isn't (AP/14)*1.7 ?

Id love to see more mats about mutilate as so far I've found out it deals more damage maxing Dual wield spec than going 5/5 into opportunity.
I might be wrong (and I suppose I am) but I wouldn't like to respec for no gains.

After some probably inexact calculations I still have a doubt.

I didn't know if the damage reduction is applied multiplicatively or cumulatively, so I went for both options:

Cumulative: your Offhand with 5/5 dw spec does its full damage.
Multiplicative: your Offhand with 5/5 dw spec will deal (OW*0.5*1.5) = 0.75 OW

Thus you'll find yourself with this:
Cumulative: No offhand penalties will mean you're calculating your damage as if you had two MW

Multiplicative:
( MW + 88 ) * 1.5 = 1.5MW + 132
( 0.75OW + 88 ) *1.5 = 1.125OW + 132

Is this it? Where can I find more maths about Mutilate ?

Well, after having a look on EJ forums I found this out:

Originally Posted by Left View Post
Lets assume you have equal damage range weapons in both hands:

Mutilate -> DMG = (WeaponDmg + 101) + (WeaponDmg*0.5 + 101) = 1.5*WeaponDmg + 202
Mutilate w/ Opportunity -> DMG = ((WeaponDmg + 101) + (WeaponDmg*0.5 + 101))*1.2 = 1.8*WeaponDmg + 242
Mutilate w/ DW Spec -> DMG = (WeaponDmg + 101) + (WeaponDmg*0.5 + 101)*1.5 = 1.75*WeaponDmg + 252

Hope it helps.

Commentaire de 159584

50% from psns dosn't count.

Lethality : +30% dmg

Opportunity : 20%

Improved Kidney shot : +9% dmg

Find Weakness : +10% dmg

5p combo. Improved expose armor ( vs rogue ) :+ ~25% dmg

Buffs : BoM (220) BoK (~140 that's what my fullgladi/venge rogue gets) Battle shout (300) mark of wild not counted..
Unleased rage (140) Berserkers Call (360)

That equals 1160 ap, wich can be.. 20-25% more dmg?

that gives around 110% extra dmg,(-10% from resci) and with Full gladi gear and 2 shankers, 1400ap ,43/0/18 mutilate spcc, gives me the normal crits of 1.5k MH and 800 OH. if we add 110% on that, it will be ~3.1k MH and ~~1.7k OH. Nearly 5k. Critting on both is easy since you have coldblood, and remeber that you have 120 energy for doing two muti in a row, that could deal 10k in +2sec.

Now, i havn't counted a full vengeful rogue or t6, and this is possible, i've done 4.3k, with lesser lesser buffs and bladefists breadth, and aon't full venge o t6.

A clearly underrestimated spcc, and it's skillz and timing that makes you pwn with this spcc, not a passive Cheat death or 30sec evasion.

This spcc is definetly worth a try, and i've stucked with it from day1 :)

Chaytis Belf Rogue - Trollbane

Commentaire de 159584

Reply to Jeffeniqua ; Cold Blood DOES make BOTH MH and OH crit, it's worth to have in mid out there :)

Cheers

Commentaire de 159584

I can confirm that it's more worth getting Opportunity;
(20% + dmg on Mutilate, BS, Garrote, AND ambush)

Since dagger rogue, this gives WAY more than 50% OH dmg, since it's abilities that shout do the dmg, not the normal hits. On mages you never use cheapshot ( only in special cases )
so, 20% dmg on garrote (wich silence for 3 sec) or on ambush, is waaaay more worth. I've spccd from Dual Wield spz to Oportunity, really worth it :)

Commentaire de 38324

If both attacks crit doesn't mutilate generate 4 combo points? I mean what's the difference between critting with main hand only or both main and offhand?

Commentaire de 201585

As a mutilate rogue I am happy to tell that in the new WOTLK beta build 8905 mutilate rogues can have both dual wield specialization and opportunity! Mutilate FTW!

Here's the link to the new talents: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogue=

Commentaire de 164509

Don't switch to Assassination and then forget to LEARN OTHER RANKS. I walked around bgs for a week going: wtflol my damage sux. Then I went to the trainer and realized I had 3 more ranks to learn. I lol'd at myself.

Commentaire de 94367

by giving you the ability to use it not only from behind the target this doesn't mean that it will hit most of the times since chars tend to dodge and parry. however it's easier this way since you are fighting a warrior and he has cornered you with slow effect and can't reach to his back. i find this rather better than the old version where you had to stun/gouge or even blind to find an opening.
never the less is much better against mages since they blink stuns. just slow em and kill.

Commentaire de 58442

In an ideal situation, all melee should be attacking the back of their target to eliminate the chance to be parried. Requirement or not, it's a good idea.

Commentaire de 216650

Wouldn't it rock if you could do this move with dual swords

Commentaire de 287823

The best thing Blizzard done for Mutilate is that no longer requires you to be behind the target. Yea its not hard to get behind the target but it suX :)

Commentaire de veno3

This talent is getting modified in Patch 3.0.9

# Mutilate damage will now do 20% increased damage against poisoned targets, down from 50%.

Commentaire de 28478

So the cata beta version of this skill (Estropier) is not listed as requiring daggers, as the live version (Estropier) does. I wonder if this is intentional, or just a mistake in the tooltip, because frankly I'd love to run around mutilating with axes. They've shown they can balance abilities for different weapon types with Fan of Knives, after all, so the ability could easily be rebalanced so that using non-daggers gave you an advantage.

I understand that people have gotten used to assassination being a dagger tree, and I have no problem with using daggers for Mutilate. I just think it'd look freaking awesome attacking with two axes at the same time.

Commentaire de Sneetch

Leveling with daggers below 50 is now way easier thanks to this.

Commentaire de 582434

people forget, any % increase thing don't add, they are multiplied
instead of Assassin's Resolve+Opportunity+poison mutilate it's
x poison mutilate or whatever order it goes, same applies to dmg reduction

Commentaire de ercanrua

For what it's worth, there's currently (4.2.2) a Blizzard-acknowledged "display error" that shows Mutilate and Mutilate Off-hand as trainable in your Spellbook, but not actually available to you at your trainer. To be fixed in a future patch. Mentioned in the in-game Help as #8 in the Top Issues list.

I just noticed this on my level 11 Subtlety-spec'd Rogue; Mutilate being an Assassination-spec ability has no business being displayed for me.

Commentaire de elisimo

Thanks for the information that it's bugged. I can quit going to the trainers for now!

Commentaire de 891145

From the looks of 4.3, this may be a viable opener from Stealth

Commentaire de adamkade

I know that some of these idas are very good, but are they not a bit out of date. I mean crippling poision in assassination is it still good to have?

Commentaire de Stygianite

Oh I can't wait for this to finally no longer require daggers. The RNG was just too weak for Rogues to effectively acquire 2 daggers fast enough. Not to mention I was never a huge fan of double daggers anyhow.

Commentaire de theyasha

to me this move sounds like a squeaky toy....ferocious

Liens Export WeakAuras

Estropier

Estropier

Énergie : 50	Allonge

Instantanée

Vous attaquez avec vos deux armes et infligez un total de [(50.9355% of Attack power) + (50.9355% of Attack power) * 0.5] points de dégâts physiques.

Confère 2 point de combo.

Détails sur le sort

Durée

n/d

École

Physique

Mécanique

n/d

Type de dissipation

n/d

Catégorie GCD

Standard

Coût

Énergie : 50

Portée

5 mètres (Combat)

Incantation

Instantanée

Recharge

n/d

GCD

1 seconde

Effet #1

Dummy
Multiplicateur JcJ : 1
Script du côté serveur

Effet #2

Give Power (Points de combo)
Valeur : 2
Multiplicateur JcJ : 1

Effet #3

Trigger Spell

	Estropier

Effet #4

Trigger Spell

	Estropier

Marqueurs

Est une technique
Ne peut être utilisé en changeforme
Ne pas journaliser le rengainage
Démarre le combat (active l'attaque auto)
Requiert toutes les cibles
Décompte la puissance quand raté
Requiert une arme en main droite
Supprimer les déclenchements du lanceur
Requiert une arme en main gauche
L'aura pointe vers le client
Activer les déclenchements de lanceur désactivés
Autoriser les déclenchements des techniques de classe

Guides

Assassination Rogue Guide Overview Assassination Rogue Rotation Guide Best Assassination Rogue Conduits Best Assassination Rogue Legendaries Kyrian Assassination Rogue Guide Legion Rogue Class Changes Warlords of Draenor Rogue Changes

Estropier

Buff

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