Whats the best spec these days? (haven't played for a year)

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Publication par nickseng

For my buck, play the spec you actually like, so you're less likely to change specs when nerfs come a-knocking. :)

Publication par viejo

In LFR, my ilvl 481 frost mage regularly outperforms similarly equipped Arcane mages both in AOE and single target. Plus, frost is a lot more fun to play. We actually have more than 3 spells!

Publication par Darkwraith01

Indeed, Frost is a lot more fun to play. However, not sure it has the best DPS. Frost has a little more mobility than Arcane, so for fights that need more movement it can outperform Arcane; otherwise, Arcane is better.

The thing about Arcane is to have lots and lots of Mastery, since it translates directly into more damage. And a lot of the Valor Point gear, for example, have Hit/Crit, so unless you are guild raiding, you are stuck with getting VP gear and reforging it.

Fire is broken, until it gets fixed (or you have every BiS in the game), it's not worth it. And so far there are no fixes in PTR for patch 5.2, so... very sad.

Publication par atLaMe

In LFR, my ilvl 481 frost mage regularly outperforms similarly equipped Arcane mages both in AOE and single target. Plus, frost is a lot more fun to play. We actually have more than 3 spells!

Thats because you are playing with bad arcane mage. Most of the mages I see in LFR are around 60k dps max.

Yes, frost outperform Arcane in AoE trashs. However, it'll not outperform arcane on any of the boss fight, even those with movement.
There are just bad mage who can predict movement and panic, resulting in a heavy drop in dps, as arcane, you have to predict movement and act accordingly, thats what separate bad mages from good mages
If you think arcane is a stupid 3 buttons no brain spec, you should just learn to play, cause your dps will suck :).

As for the OP, if you are not in a heavy progression guild, you should just test every spec and play the one you enjoy the most, thats whats important.
If at some point, you miss some kill because your dps is lacking, maybe think about picking up the best dps spec (which is arcane, for most of the fights atm)

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Publication par nickseng

Thats because you are playing with bad arcane mage. Most of the mages I see in LFR are around 60k dps max.

Yes, frost outperform Arcane in AoE trashs. However, it'll not outperform arcane on any of the boss fight, even those with movement.
There are just bad mage who can predict movement and panic, resulting in a heavy drop in dps, as arcane, you have to predict movement and act accordingly, thats what separate bad mages from good mages.

Of course, I could also use that argument and say that you're playing againts bad Frost mages. :P
The fact is, not a lot of top players play Frost. Whether it's because they don't like the playstyle or if they are biased againts it, or if it really IS performing badly, I can't tell you. But the fact that so little people play it means that it's numbers won't be high in logs, so take that how you will.

I haven't raided much this expansion, but I have gotten over 100+k dps as frost in some Normals, so yeah, frost is nowhere as bad as some make it. :)

Publication par Darkwraith01

I agree that Frost is NOT a bad spec at all, specially if you consider some heavy movement fights, where it can, in most cases, outperform Arcane (since you can't always keep the 6 stacks up).

A good example of that is the first fight in MV, where you need to keep moving a lot (specially if you keep getting chained to melee characters). It can really hurt Arcane DPS, but not so much for Frost.

Of course, the nerf to the Water Elemental's freeze in the next patch will hurt a lot on boss fights, since you lose the extra Fingers of Frost. But for now, it's a good spec too.

The only bad spec (as of now) is Fire. And to be quite honest, I don't understand why they don't fix it. I mean, there have been a number of 5.1 hotfixes and a couple PTR 5.2 patch releases, but not a single adjustment to Fire. Nothing. It is as if it has been abandoned by Blizzard, or something like that. It's sad, just sad, that the most favorite spec (overall) is also the worse one and is not being fixed anytime soon.

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Publication par scook999

Atm, all three specs are within a very small range of difference. The only time you would note a big difference is if you have really good gear and you have your rotations down cold. When you see people saying "bad" players, I would say "average" players, as most mages will fall into a certain dps range, and people want to call them bad if they aren't in the top 10% of damage.

Pick the spec you want, have the rotations down cold, and you will notice what a difference there is with each upgrade you get. I jumped from middle of the pack to top once I aquired the 4th piece of the raid set. Don't get too hung up on your dps not at the top, but are you getting the most out of what you got.

I raid frost, because I can, and it is fun for me. I see a lot of arcane mages, most finish middle of the pack, and ones that play it well finish just slightly ahead of me in dps. Fire mages, if a person knows what to do, can do quite well, and be very respectable, eg: top 2 or 3 in dps. If you are trying to squeeze all you can out, go arcane. I suspect arcane will be slighty ahead in 5.2 also, but I won't switch just to pick up another 1-2K dps. Arcane puts me to sleep.

Publication par Archibolt

Chiming in as a Fire Mage. (Disclaimer, not a top Fire Mage, only 15/16 N, take with pinch of salt)

I won't go into details about the changes with 5.1 and the hotfixes as that's been done to death but I'd say a lot of the time, discussions lack perspective.

If you consider Fire's main mechanisms revolving heavily around Crit, it is clear that unless you're geared, Fire won't be performing optimally.

Speaking from personal experience, sitting at roughly 35% Crit buffed, Fire still doesn't feel as fluid as it used to feel prior to 5.1. There are times when even with 4 instant Pyros lined up, I will fail to get any of them to Crit. There are times where Fireball refuses to Crit for an extended period. That's annoying, but I put it down to low stats - We are still in the first tier of MoP raiding after all.

As time progresses, and as we gear up, Fire should feel a lot more fluid due to increased Crit on gear. That is why I am not bothered by the changes in 5.1 and I don't see a real need to change much in 5.2.

As for the current state of Fire? 2pT14 is good, but I do not see 4pT14 as worth the loss of Crit.
I lost my undisputed DPS spot when 5.1 came, but I am still competitive on all fight; even if i don't end up on top, I am not far behind.

Conclusion? I am personally ok with the state of Fire, and I'm optimistic that with gear, Fire will be extremely competitive.

Publication par nickseng

The only bad spec (as of now) is Fire. And to be quite honest, I don't understand why they don't fix it. I mean, there have been a number of 5.1 hotfixes and a couple PTR 5.2 patch releases, but not a single adjustment to Fire. Nothing. It is as if it has been abandoned by Blizzard, or something like that. It's sad, just sad, that the most favorite spec (overall) is also the worse one and is not being fixed anytime soon.

I've been following the testing done at PTR and from what I hear, with all the crit gear, fire is blowing both Frost and Arcane out of the water. :)

Fire has always been the most gear-dependant spec, and I think Blizz nerfed it in anticipation of higher gear levels.

Publication par windstrum

I went fire for 85-90, seems pretty good. i'll need to try the others

You went from 85 to 90 in one day? Nice effort. :P

Publication par Darkwraith01

If that's true I will be very happy. I simply love to play fire!

Publication par tyron2000

Fire sucks atm... I love playing, but regularly getting out DPS'ed by Frost and Arcane mages. Think I'm gonna go Frost now myself. I'll keep Fire as secondary because I like Fire. And as said above if I go Arcane I need to reforge with mastery, and as I can't change my gems, that would be no good. Hope they sort Fire out soon... See what happens!

Publication par Darkwraith01

Fire sucks atm... I love playing, but regularly getting out DPS'ed by Frost and Arcane mages.

Be careful with hasty remarks like this. From what I have seen later in patch 5.2 and patch 5.3 is that Fire is very well placed with ilvl 522+. Also, if you check Method's website, they go into a lot of detail on how to play Fire in MoP, it really changed a lot comparing to pre-MoP. It takes a LOT more skill to play Fire well now.

Even if you have ilvl 522, with a base crit of, let's say, 31%, you still need to know how to play it in MoP. How to chain those multiple Pyros, your openers, etc. The way you use Alter Time with Fire is very, very different than the other specs. The PoM + Pyro macro as well.

If you love Fire, like me, I suggest you this:

1) Keep your primary spec Frost. I do that myself, and will use it as my main dps spec untill my gear goes form ilvl 515 to 522is
2) Make a Fire secondary spec. When not raiding with your guild, you can use it in Scenarios, Dungeons and LFR. And target dummies .
3) Read the class/spec guide at Icy Veins and Method's site:
http://www.icy-veins.com/fire-mage-wow-pve-dps-guide
http://www.methodwow.com/board/showthread.php?11363-MoP-Fire-Mage-Guide
4) Practice Fire a LOT. It is by far the hardest spec to play well, and it is very lag/latency sensitive, so if you have a latency over 200ms you can have some trouble