Ce site requiert JavaScript pour fonctionner.
Veuillez activer JavaScript dans votre navigateur.
Live
RPT
10.2.7
RPT
10.2.6
Bêta
My Quandry with Judeo-Christian Beliefs
Répondre
Retourner à l'index
Publication par
Cambo
i believe that religion does cause harm.
i mean look at how many people have died in the name of "god"
Oh please, if you want to contribute to the thread at least try to be intelligent about it. Show some statistics, facts or reasoning other than some generic 'religion causes more harm than good' statement.
Publication par
Skreeran
Still, the same thing could be said about atheism. It isn'q unique to religion.How so?
Atheism is the natural state of a child. Before they are told about "God," they do not believe in one.
You could say that artificially preserving that ignorance is wrong, but simply not raising your child in one religion or other is not the same as forcing your beliefs on them.
If I have children (which may not happen), I intend to wait until they are at a responsible age (meaning: old enough to be aware of the issues, and form a rational opinion about them; say, 11 or 12, about the same age I would tell them about sex) to tell them about religion, give them resources to learn about all the major religions from an unbiased source, and then let them choose what they want to believe, independent of my own beliefs. If they choose something I don't agree with, I can't honestly say I wouldn't be a little disappointed inside, but I would support their decision nonetheless.
Publication par
629826
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publication par
324987
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publication par
629826
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publication par
Cambo
no one said politics was easy or honestThe thread is about judeo-christian religion, not politics. ..the holocaust
...was caused by a few people in one philosopical-ideology-driven political party primarly, but not only, against a people group of one religion.
The holocaust is not viewed as driven by religious thought, though I am sure there was a little religious ideal driven by Herr Hitler.
Publication par
Skreeran
i believe that religion does cause harm.
i mean look at how many people have died in the name of "god"
The amount of wars based on religion is relatively small; most wars are waged for wealth and religion is just used as propaganda to get people to fight in it.True, but religion is also used to justify things like genital-mutilation, honor killing, and
murder
.
And that's not even getting started on the atrocities laid out in the Old Testament that are held up as righteous and justified acts.
Or the systematic discrimination of women in all three Abrahamic religions.
Publication par
Adamsm
have you not heard of the holocaustOf course, it was more then just Jews who were wiped out; as were the Roma, and anyone who thought differently then the Nazi's or were not Blue eyed blond haired.
the removal of the native americans?Um....not exactly; the colonists wanted to expand, but they had a little red skinned problem to get out of the way first. Religious beliefs had little to do with them being wiped out.
Of course, there was also that little thing called the Crusades which happened multiple times, over the course of a few hundred years.
Publication par
Monday
Atheism is the natural state of a child. Before they are told about "God," they do not believe in one.
Then how did God come about, if nobody believed in Him growing up?
If I have children (which may not happen), I intend to wait until they are at a responsible age (meaning: old enough to be aware of the issues, and form a rational opinion about them; say, 11 or 12, about the same age I would tell them about sex) to tell them about religion, give them resources to learn about all the major religions from an unbiased source, and then let them choose what they want to believe, independent of my own beliefs. If they choose something I don't agree with, I can't honestly say I wouldn't be a little disappointed inside, but I would support their decision nonetheless.
This is good. But most parents, including atheist parents also teach their children the same thing they believe.
Publication par
Skreeran
Then how did God come about, if nobody believed in Him growing up?Someone made him up, like all the other incorrect theories in from antiquity.
Just because someone a long time ago came to the conclusion that storms at sea were caused by an angry sea god (because they didn't know about meteorology), doesn't mean that it's true.
The human mind naturally tries to come up with explanations for things. A long time ago, the "God hypothesis" for otherwise unexplainable things worked very well at explaining why they happened. Where did we come from? Why are we here? Why was that rival village destroyed by a flood?
They tried to come up with answers: "The gods made us. The gods want us to do things a certain way for them. Because we killed one of our animals to feed the gods, so he destroyed our enemies."
Well, now we're finding the real answers, and discovering that the old theories are wrong. The earth isn't flat. The earth isn't the center of the universe. We were not created to be above all other life on earth, but simply evolved like everything else. The universe is not six thousand years old, but rather 13.7 billion years old. And "God" is no longer a good answer for the gaps in our knowledge.
And honestly, I'm more impressed by reality than fiction. When I remember that every atom in my body was "created" in the heart of a star billions of years ago, I'm awed. When I see how huge the universe is, and think about what all is out there, I'm humbled and amazed. When I read about evolution, and how it cleverly and effectively allows living things to adapt to their environment, I'm stunned. We're not "special" in the sense that we were created by a loving god for a purpose, but the universe is indeed awe-inspiring, God or not.
Publication par
Monday
Atheism is the natural state of a child. Before they are told about "God," they do not believe in one.
Something else I was thinking of: Do you have any proof for this? At young ages, they are atheist because they don't even think about it. At later ages, children may 'create' their own gods and believe they really exist. Atheism is not the natural state of a child, definition of child being 1-18.
As for the rest of your post: A lot of the stuff you say is mainly evangelical doctrine that you apply to every religion out there. Broaden your range. Evangelism isn't the norm.
I don't believe the universe was created 6,000 years ago. I believe that the atoms probably did come from the heart of a star.
The question is: Why does all of that rule out God? Wouldn't a truly powerful God use the resources at his disposal? I honestly don't think God just waved his hand and we all came into being. I think that God's perception of time is different than ours, and the 7 days of creation for him was really a
long
time in which he created the universe.
But still, those are just my beliefs, not trying to force them on anybody.
Publication par
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publication par
138638
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publication par
Skreeran
As for the rest of your post: A lot of the stuff you say is mainly evangelical doctrine that you apply to every religion out there. Broaden your range. Evangelism isn't the norm.It's the norm for many forms of the Abrahamic religions, which is what we're discussing here.
I don't believe the universe was created 6,000 years ago. I believe that the atoms probably did come from the heart of a star.
The question is: Why does all of that rule out God? Wouldn't a truly powerful God use the resources at his disposal? I honestly don't think God just waved his hand and we all came into being. I think that God's perception of time is different than ours, and the 7 days of creation for him was really a long time in which he created the universe.And that's more rationalism than Queggy's literalism.
I have relatively little problem with progressive religion (although I still don't like that children usually don't get any say in what religion they get saddled with). It's the conservative, fundamentalist, evangelicals that I can't stand. And, living in the United States, and Texas in particular, I have to deal with them on a daily basis.
As for "Why does that rule out God?", it doesn't "rule him out," it just makes it unnecessary, and thus susceptible to Occam's Razor: "The simpler explanation that covers all the data is usually correct."
If the origin and development of the universe and ourselves can be explained scientifically through tests and experiments, we don't need an omnipotent, loving, elemental being who exists outside the rules of the universe on top of that.
Publication par
HoleofArt
If the origin and development of the universe and ourselves can be explained scientifically through tests and experiments, we don't need an omnipotent, loving, elemental being who exists outside the rules of the universe on top of that.
This. As Skreeran said earlier, Gods and all other deities were formed from a lack of knowledge. Had there never been this gap, and we always knew about atoms, the structure of the universe, etc. the need for God would have never developed.
Take everything you know now about the world and apply it to the mind-frame of society around when Jesus was crucified.
You honestly think that a religion would have stemmed out of that if we had all the answers we have now?
Publication par
DarkOpeth
Take everything you know now about the world and apply it to the mind-frame of society around when Jesus was crucified.
You honestly think that a religion would have stemmed out of that if we had all the answers we have now?
Maybe, but its less likely. I would agree with you on the point that Religion was necesarry at the time it came to prominence because there was no other way to fill the knowledge "gap" about questions regarding life, death, matter and existence.
Plus, the Old World sucked, and during periods like Feudal Europe the peasants were kept placated with the promise of a glorious, eternal afterlife, so long as they kept producing for their master and landowner.
Publication par
374287
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publication par
Varaconn
I believe, and I've said it before but I'll repeat as these religion threads keep popping up and I love the discussion, that people are bastards regardless of what religion they choose to follow. Wars, ethnic cleansing, rape, torture, tribalism, would all be things that existed in the world if noone ever stopped to ask where we came from and invented a pretty story instead of doing scientific research. Most Christian and Jewish peoples live in relative wealth and comfort, so they tend to be less bastardy than some others at this point in history, but they're no better or worse (or in my opinion more accurate) than any other. Each may have their own particular brand of crazy, but that comes from the worshippers.
I agree with this. Most religious "justifications" for digusting actions are not even present in the respective religion, but instead are personal beliefs pushed by people in a position of power (religious or otherwise.)
Even without religion, people would have found ways to be @#$%^&*s...that, I'm confident of, sadly to say.
Publication par
134377
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publication par
Skreeran
I believe, and I've said it before but I'll repeat as these religion threads keep popping up and I love the discussion, that people are bastards regardless of what religion they choose to follow. Wars, ethnic cleansing, rape, torture, tribalism, would all be things that existed in the world if noone ever stopped to ask where we came from and invented a pretty story instead of doing scientific research. Most Christian and Jewish peoples live in relative wealth and comfort, so they tend to be less bastardy than some others at this point in history, but they're no better or worse (or in my opinion more accurate) than any other. Each may have their own particular brand of crazy, but that comes from the worshippers.
I agree with this. Most religious "justifications" for digusting actions are not even present in the respective religion, but instead are personal beliefs pushed by people in a position of power (religious or otherwise.)
Even without religion, people would have found ways to be @#$%^&*s...that, I'm confident of, sadly to say.There's a relevant quote for that:
"With or without religion, there will still be good people doing good things and bad people doing bad things, but to make good people do bad things -- that takes religion."
Naturally that's not applicable in
every
situation (good people conditioned to do bad things by bad people can do bad things), but that pretty much sums of my view of religion.
Répondre
Vous n'êtes pas connecté. Veuillez vous
connecter
pour répondre à ce sujet, ou
vous inscrire
si vous n'avez pas déjà un compte.