I think blizzard went to far this time (Thrall related)

Publication par Patty

Skreeran, where exactly is the Horde looking like villains?

Wrathgate in WotLK, come Cataclysm we are stealing one of the most ancient and ancestral Night Elven cities to name a couple of examples.

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Publication par Patty

The Wrathgate was not the fault of the Horde. It was the fault of Putress and Varimathras. Although I do admit that it was irresponsible of Sylvanas to allow the testing of the Blight continue.Unfortunately lorewise, people can't go on Wowwiki and find that little tid-bit of information.

Now, the night elf thing with the Horde, that *!@#es me off. I want a reason for it. Not only that, but then comes oh-so-perfect Jaina trying to calm Varian down about the Horde.

Jaina has reasons to tell Varian to stfu about the Horde, to be fair. Thrall being one of them.

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Publication par Patty

In Cataclysm, Thrall won't be the leader of the Horde. Garrosh will. And if Jaina will be trying to restrain him, I will be the first to sign up to assassinate her.

I know that Thrall is stepping down, which is what the OP is saying anyway. >.>

Varian doesn't care if Thrall is or is not the leader of the Horde. He is an Orc, and that is enough for him right now it would seem. If his attitude does not change from Battle for Undercity, I am completely on Jaina's side.

Y'know, encouraging genocide and all of that nasty stuff.
Trash like you and this evil witch were allowed to roam free -- unchecked. The time has come to make things right. To disband your treacherous kingdom of murderers and thieves. Putress was the first strike. Many more will come. I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing. What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde... It ends now, Warchief.

This is quite derailing though, so let's shift the focus back to Thrall.

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Publication par Patty

Wouldn't Varian have a point this time though?To wipe out every Orc in existance? Not really.

Anyway, on topic, what's the reason for the taking of that Nelf city?

Controlling Astranaar gives the Horde control over virtually all of Ashenvale. Plus, it is a major morale loss for the Alliance. Astranaar was a huge city before Darnassus, it was sort of the Night Elves' version of Stratholme for Lordaeron.

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Publication par Patty

The Horde does not reserve the right to attack the Alliance unless attacked first, and vice-versa. There's a peace treaty. Yeah, which is why Varian declared war on the Horde. :P

So, what gives the Horde the right to attack an Alliance city? I take it nothing short of treason.
See above. Garrosh is probably thinking "Varian wants a war? We'll give him one."

Publication par totemmunkey

Wouldn't Varian have a point this time though?

Anyway, on topic, what's the reason for the taking of that Nelf city?

The announcement trailer is pretty clear cut in that regard: "New conflicts erupt as old enemies vie for control of the world's diminished resources."

Think of two guys who don't really get along due to a long history of violence and mistrust trying to get the last bits of canned food and bottled water in a supermarket after a hurricane hit their homes. It's not gonna be pretty.

The Horde does not reserve the right to attack the Alliance unless attacked first, and vice-versa. There's a peace treaty.

So, what gives the Horde the right to attack an Alliance city? I take it nothing short of treason.

Again, from the trailer: "...the proud defenders of Azeroth fight to secure a lasting peace, but there can be no peace when the world itself is devoured by rage."

The Horde and the Alliance couldn't put aside their differences when it came to the threat inside Ulduar or when storming Icecrown Citadel to finally end the Lich King. I think with the world all out of whack, pretty much all bets are off.

Publication par Skreeran

Wrathgate in WotLK, come Cataclysm we are stealing one of the most ancient and ancestral Night Elven cities to name a couple of examples.

The Wrathgate was not the fault of the Horde. It was the fault of Putress and Varimathras. Although I do admit that it was irresponsible of Sylvanas to allow the testing of the Blight continue.The Wrathgate was the Horde's fault, indirectly at least, and I'm not going to deny it.

Varimathras was given political power by Sylvanas, and Sylvanas didn't properly supervise him, so it is Sylvanas' fault indiriectly. Thrall trusted Sylvanas do do her job properly, and didn't supervise the Forsaken himself, and thus it is his fault indirectly.

In addition, Blizzard seemingly villified the Horde at the Broken Front, where the Horde attacked the Alliance from behind, and in the 3.1 trailer, where Garrosh attacked Varian. And soon we'll have Garrosh—rather than being punished—be made Warchief, and Ashenvale being attacked.

However, to me, it made the Horde look less like villains to me. Because of it, Sylvanas lost a lot of power in the Horde.Power that she shouldn't have held in the first place.

Now, the night elf thing with the Horde, that *!@#es me off. I want a reason for it. Not only that, but then comes oh-so-perfect Jaina trying to calm Varian down about the Horde.We don't know what Jaina's gonna be doing in Cataclysm.

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Publication par Skreeran

Well, Darkton does have a point. WC3 did kinda depict the Horde in a much cooler light than the Alliance.

What I've been saying, though, is that Blizzard shouldn't hesitate to fix the Horde's image, or at least reaffirm that both sides are dark.

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Publication par Adamsm

Well, Darkton does have a point. WC3 did kinda depict the Horde in a much cooler light than the Alliance.

And I agree with that lol. This thread is an exaggeration.

Aye it is heh.

Publication par Monday

D. "Lose a few camps?" We lose a LOT of ground, including the last large city of the night elves in Ashenvale, Astranaar. And we also lose Auberdine in darkshore. WHile those are just NIght Elves being hit, those are two of their largest cities, which is saying a lot for the NIght Elves. That does not hardly constitute "A few camps".
I would be surprised to see the Horde not lose any ground.

Seriously though, I have no idea why they're having the Horde take Astranaar - It makes the NEs look like complete punks (something that I agree with entirely), but I don't see why they need to look worse than they already do.

Also, this thread is a joke.

Also, the only reason people defend the Horde is WC3. WC3 established it as a force that could also stand for good as opposed to WC1-2 where the Horde was very clearly the evil side. Before saying "OH THE HORDE HAD SUCH A GREAT TIME IT IS OUR TIME NAO!" consider there were 4 factions in WC3 - As opposed to 2 in WoW. I'd say WotLK pretty much cemented the Alliance as the good guys for a while. Now it's time for both factions to descend into warlike depravity. Not just the Horde (who get Garrosh as Warchief and likely some very questionable positions as well), but the Alliance as well.

Well, in W1 and W2 they were evil. They were demonically corrupted and declared war on Azeroth. THat makes them evil. Am I going to say they are evil now? No I am not, the Horde can be a force for good now. However, they didn't need to show the Alliance being stupid in W3 just because the Horde was bad earlier, its like saying "We need to make the Allies look dumb because the Axis was made to look stupid during WW2."

And they are taking Astranaar for the territory. If the Horde takes Astranaar, they control all of Ashenvale.

Publication par taurenmoo812

I know that Thrall is stepping down, which is what the OP is saying anyway. >.>

Actully thats a misconception. Despite my emese dislike at blizzard having Garrosh take power over the horde, to suggest Thrall as 'stepping down' doesn't have anything to back it, like Adam says.

Also, in order to create conflict in cataclysm, its obvious the reason for having Garrosh take that kind of power was to force the horde into a relentless war with the alliance, now lead by orc hating Varian. There means of injecting the conflict Jaina and Thrall were fighting to avoid for years.

Yeah I can understand that. But as Rankkorr and myself have been saying, having the horde painted as the bad guys in order to make some butthole pointless war when Deathchin is flying around burning the world is just mediocre. The horde has developed and evolved into the dark but noble races they are now, almost on an anti hero bases, because they have saved the world dozens of times.. and just all blizzard had to do was remove there noble leader and replace him with a raging retconn, and boom, its all for nothing.

Its right, blizzard owe the horde players something big, only the most nonsensical fool would overlook the fact garrosh is already bringing the horde back down to that bad guy image.

All I can hope is that, like Adam depicted in his story of the future, Deathchin will eat Garrosh and be the end of him.

Publication par Adamsm

All I can hope is that, like Adam depicted in his story of the future, Deathchin will eat Garrosh and be the end of him.Technically, he crucified him to the gates of Orgrimmar as the Dark Horde lead by Rend Blackhand charged in to take the city for themselves.

I think blizzard went to far this time (Thrall related)

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