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Publication par Rankkor

That's the saddest part hat, these are not charity lotto, this money isn't used for a noble cause like helping the handicap or feeding the poor, these are private companies, and I don't know what's scarier: That these brands are all part of the same administration, or that they aren't.

If they are under the same administration, then its scary because they goad the public into buying more like this: "Ohh I've been playing Triple-gordo for 5 years and haven't won SQUAT, so I'm gonna start playing Lotto-quiz because that one seems more reliable" (Fails to read the part that both of these are administrated by the same company: Start Lotto enterprise. In other words, same dog with a different ribbon)

If they are under different administrations, then its worst. Its worst because big businessmen are realizing that people are crazy about getting rich overnight, and will swallow ANY new brand that pops out overnight, if it improves their chances to win. On average, the mentality of A LOT of venezuelans is "the more different brands I play, the higher my chances to at least win ONE OF THEM"

Most fail the simplest basic premise of logic: If you spend 800.000 bolivares per month on lotto, and after a year you win 5 million bolivares, that's not a winning. you didn't made any profits, you just took 4 and a half million bolivares and trew them in the garbage bin. And that's assuming you even win ONCE a year, considering how stadistics goes, if you win at least 1 game after buying a ticket every week of every month for the next 10 years, consider your ass lucky.

Its just mind-boggling :S I just went this morning to get my news paper, and there on the stand, there were over 45 different cabins selling so many brands of lotto I honestly can't list them all if I tried, and to my bewildered eyes, I saw no less than 10 people buy up to 30 tickets at the same time. Each for 15000. Do the math. Burning up that much cash is just stupid but they do so gleefully because they honest-to-god believe that they will actually get rich overnight by doing so.

its disgusting, and its sad =(

and it makes me sad U_U

Publication par Azazel

by the way, where does that statistic come from because I'm sure that even if it does have any validity, it's incredibly rare

Danish TV show =/

Publication par ElhonnaDS

In the US, our lottery is state funded, and the way they justify it is (at least in New York, though I'm pretty sure it's all of them) that the proceeds that they keep go into the educational system so even if you lose it's not a total loss. I have on occasion spent a dollar or 2 on a lottery ticket- mostly for fun. It's been a couple of years since I did, but back when I did I maybe bought one once or twice a year. Sometimes, it's fun even though you know you've got a snowball's chance in hell of winning. Either way, if it's only a dollar, and you feel like you got a dollar's worth of entertainment out of it, then great.

But I know there are a lot of people who don't look at it that way, and throw money at it in some kind of desperation.

Publication par Azazel

We have kinda the same thing here. All public schools are completely funded by the state obviously, so the extra money goes to local sports, boyscouts etc.

Publication par gamerunknown

Humanity isn't stupid, just unsuppressably hopeful in the face of adversity - it's the ones who encounter the most adversity that do this most.

That's true, but it still upsets me that people are willing to prey on people's hope (or cognitive biases) in order to profit. It strikes me as the complete opposite of socialism: taking from the many; in most cases, taking from the most disadvantaged, to benefit the relatively well off.

Bartlett wrote "The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function" (in defence of population science, which can quickly descend into Social Darwinism...), perhaps a lack of understanding of statistics as a whole would be a better gauge.

Publication par asakawa

I would argue though that people understand very well that their chances of winning are ridiculously small even if they don't know the actual numerical probability. There's not a problem of victimisation or taking advantage of a lack of understanding. People know they won't win but they know that someone out there does win all this money and they want to be that person.

I often suggest that people should use the numbers "1 2 3 4 5 and 6" and when they say "like that'll ever happen!" I reply, "exactly" so I agree that they're not fully grasping the issue of their small chance but that doesn't mean they honestly think they have a good chance as long as they keep playing every week.

Publication par Interest

Lotteries? o.0 Interesting discussion.

I honestly can't list them all if I tried, and to my bewildered eyes, I saw no less than 10 people buy up to 30 tickets at the same time. Each for 15000

3.50 a ticket...and 30 tickets at a time. Jeez.

Publication par gamerunknown

People know they won't win but they know that someone out there does win all this money and they want to be that person.

That's the entire point. Spotlight fallacy. Complete waste of time and money, they'd be far better off donating it directly to a charity... Well, the world would be better off on average and people would probably get more of a buzz out of helping out on average.

Publication par asakawa

People aren't doing it to be charitable even in lotteries where proceeds do go to charitable causes. They might tell themselves and/or others that but they're doing it for the chance to win something. We know the chances are infinitesimal but I think they do too.
I'm just not keen on this 'despairing for humanity' bit. There's human nature at work for sure, with all the biases and naiveties that go with it, but this isn't a demonstration that humanity is broken and really not a good reason to adopt a condescending attitude toward those who buy lottery tickets.
(Not that I'm accusing rankorr of being condescending, just that that is likely the natural conclusion of that line of thought)

Publication par Rankkor

People know they won't win but they know that someone out there does win all this money and they want to be that person.

That's the entire point. Spotlight fallacy. Complete waste of time and money, they'd be far better off donating it directly to a charity..

Or burning it on a garbage bin.

Seriously, its one thing to blow away your hard earned money on some vices like drinking, smoking, drugs, videogames, whatever........ Because you are getting SOMETHING for your money. Maybe not something that's healthy for you, but something anyhow.

On Gambling, you are spending money, and getting NOTHING in return, you trow away cash for a (Minuscule abysmally low) chance to see your investment doubled, or tripled. And the worst part is you have absolutely NO CONTROL AT ALL on the process. I mean, investing money on the stock market is sorta like gambling, you invest money, and hope to see that investment yield results, but at least on the stock you can research, you can see which companies to invest in, you can yield profit if you know your business.

On lotto the entire process is yanked out of your hands and you depend on the gods of RNG to see your money yield results, or burn away.

It is mind-boggling how people can be so stupid with their money, and then wonder why our economy is in the toilet.

Publication par asakawa

I'm not sure what line you're drawing between gambling and the world's economy but it feels like a non sequitur to me.

Gambling is now and has been since time immemorial a big way for people to pass the their time. I really don't think that you getting upset about lotteries means that everyone who has ever gambled is an idiot. People clearly do get something out of it which is why so many people do it. If you don't understand that then that doesn't mean they're stupid, it just means that you've failed to understand.

Publication par Interest

Publication par asakawa

I just think it's a misunderstanding of what's going on in the brain of someone who buys a lottery ticket. They do get something out of it, that's why they do it. They feel it's worth a £/$/€/¥/etc... to do it. Others don't think it's worth it so they don't do it. There's no problem there.

Publication par Rankkor

I really don't think that you getting upset about lotteries means that everyone who has ever gambled is an idiot.

Hummm maybe I should try to word that better....... (darn this english :S)

There's many forms of gambling, some involve playing games like poker ect, others involve in betting like on horses or boxers, and others involve buying a slip of paper, and hope that slip is one among 15 million to be chosen at random to give you a giant check.

While I can see the "fun" potential in playing gambling games on casinos (Where indeed the mere act of playing is entertaining and as such you are getting your money's worth) I simply fail to see where's the fun in buying multiple slips of paper, in the hopes that one of them (in a very remote chance) Could be the winner.

Furthermore, on a game of cards like blackjack or poker, you can actually rig the odds in your favor if you know how to play, and in some ways could be similar to playing an MMORPG (I pay blizz monthly to be able to play the game, and all I get out of that money is entertainment. A dude playing poker in a casino is paying the casino to play poker and he's getting entertainment out of that deal, plus a very realistic chance of getting your money back plus profits)

But on a lottery, understand that you compete against the entire country. If 5 million people bought a lotto ticket from "Lotto-quiz" this week, then that means you have a 1/5000000 chance to win. Furthermore, (I dunno if lotteries work this way on the US) over here, a lottery means the prize is split among the winners. If there's 1 billion bolivares this week, and a thousand people win, then each gets barely 1 million bolivares (which is a LOUSY amount of money over here)

So, you are paying money for a slip of paper, in the off chance that you are one among MANY winners, and asuming you win, the amount you get is pathetically small (Unlike playing poker like a pro in a casino which can make you win and lose big amounts of money overnight) You are not even playing a game, or testing your skill among other players, nor do you have any chance to improve your odds, or even derive entertainment (since its mostly frustrating that for the 20th time this year you've yet to win squat)

So, I'm not quite saying that everyone who gambles is an idiot, I'm more saying that people who choose to blow away exessive amounts of money on gambling via lottery is trowing away their money in a less-than-smart way. There's better ways to put that money to use and make profit.

This is mostly happening in venezuela, where lotteries are becoming so damn popular each day a new brand pops up, because that's what people want to do with their money, they are gambling to the extreme.

Publication par ElhonnaDS

Another thing to point out, is that not all gambling is created equal. Not all forms of gambling have a "house" that always wins, or astronomical odds against winning. Not all of it is completely random.

Poker, for example, has a lot of skill and strategy involved in addition to chance. and, if you're playing against 4 other people, and you think that you're better at bluffing, strategizing, and reading other people, then your odds aren't all that bad. Also, there is a competitive aspect to the game that some people enjoy. If your dad goes out and spends $150 a week to go bowling, in terms of lane rentals, equipment upkeep, league fees, etc., and my dad goes out and plays poker once a week, and some weeks loses $150, and some weeks wins $150, and they're both having the same amount of fun, then who are we to say whose activity is better?

Betting on sports events is also another kind of gambling where, if you have confidence in your team, your odds aren't necessarily all that bad. Also, a lot of people find watching a game to be more exciting when the outcome will actually affect them in some way.

I personally, when my friends have taken me to a casino (maybe 4-5 times in my life) happen to like Blackjack. The returns per hand aren't too high, because the odds aren't overwhelmingly in favor of the house, but it's fun. If you know where the house has to stop, and know when to hit and when to stay (it's just basic probability), then you'll either lose slowly or win slowly. It's not going to make you rich, but it's entertaining, it requires some thought, and if you're making small bets you're not losing too much either.

There are definitely games in which the odds are ridiculous- how else can you win a million dollars by putting in one dollar, unless your odds are a million to one? There are people for whom gambling is an addiction, and who don't know when to quit. There are people who spend money they don't have on gambling. But to categorically say that every person who gambles in any form is an idiot isn't really correct.

@Rank- started writing mine before your last post, didn't see it until after. But here's an example- my friends/family and I have a running joke about "When we win the lottery." Like, if I don't want to get up early, I'll groan "When I win the lottery, I'm going to set my alarm clock on fire in the back yard," or I'll tell my BF "When I win the lottery, I'm going to just pay you to farm XYZ for me so I don't have to." Stuff like that. It's funny. If I spend $2-4 a year on lottery tickets, as part of that running joke, then I think I got my money's worth for all the laughs it got us. Also, there are scratch off tickets that are like crossword puzzles and mini-games, and you play for like 5 minutes before you know if you won anything. Some people think that's worth a dollar.

Publication par Rankkor

But to categorically say that every person who gambles in any form is an idiot isn't really correct.

Again, I take that statement back. Not "ALL" forms of gambling are a waste of time and gray matter. You have a very valid point regarding Poker (And while its not my thing, I can certainly see where the appeal is for a dedicated poker player, considering its a game of skill, strategy, and a way to actually make profits if you are good at it. Plus as you said, with poker you have only like what? 4 oponents? on lottery, everyone who bought a ticket is your oponent)

Betting on sports events is also another kind of gambling where, if you have confidence in your team, your odds aren't necessarily all that bad. Also, a lot of people find watching a game to be more exciting when the outcome will actually affect them in some way.

Again, I agree, its not really my thing (i'm VERY careful on what I spend my money) but I can see the appeal in spicing things up when watching a sport match by putting some money on the team/player you support.

My rant was more directed at both Lotteries (Which I do consider absolutely ridiculus, and people who indulge in it the way venezuelans do really need to have their brain checked) and the "get-rich-quick" mentality that is gripping my nation as of late.

As it is, spending 15000 bolivares per week on a single lotto ticket is something I consider plain silly. Spending over 600.000 bolivares per month on lotto alone is plain simple stupidity to the extreme. And I know SEVERAL people who choose to spend their money that way (Including co-workers and neighbors)

I know things are bad over here (real bad) and I understand that many would like to have a small fortune just fall out of the sky so they can use the money to leave the country, but COME ON, be a little more realistic. The world doesn't work that way. I could figure it out, dunno why they cant.

Publication par Rankkor

If I spend $2-4 a year on lottery tickets, as part of that running joke, then I think I got my money's worth for all the laughs it got us.

well, if its that little, and its more for the giggles, then I don't really see the harm in it. No more harmful than spending those same 4 $ on a bar of chocolate. But if you spend 500$ a month on lottery, then you see where I have a problem with. That's just not a smart way to spend money, and unfortunately, THAT is the way people play lotto over here. Its full-blown adiction to the extreme. And its the rapid propagation of it that concerns me, because these aren't isolated cases I'm talking about,, these are common cases that are becoming more and more common each year, to the point that more and more and more brands of lotto show up every year.

They show up more brands because more and more people are investing their money on it in simply absurd quantities.

Publication par asakawa

Others find value in something in which you see none. Your inability to see the value in doing something doesn't mean it has no value OR that others are foolish for doing it.

We like playing computer games. Others will happily say they see no value in playing them and will also happily look down on those of us that do - I'm sure we've all experienced that at some point.
I have spent years of my life enjoying World of Warcraft, others will say that I'm an utter fool for doing that and make off-colour comparisons to denigrate me for spending my time in that way.

The point I'm trying to make is that saying "I don't see the value in playing lotteries so I don't do it" is totally fair but saying "I see now value in playing lotteries so people who do must be idiots" is unfair and untrue.

edit: regarding $500 a month... I am sceptical that that happens in more than extreme cases which is why I asked for a source earlier.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##

Publication par ElhonnaDS

Oh totally- I don't disagree that there are people who have self-control problems when it comes to gambling, or who just really don't understand the scale of what's involved in terms of how little chance they have to win. I was just pointing out the difference between different levels and types of gambling, for discussion purposes.

Publication par gamerunknown

Was going to link this earlier. Last time I went home I noticed my parents bought the Sunday Times (they're no longer subscribed to the Times thankfully) but I found this wonderful article in it.

As for gambling: I'm not trying to be condescending, but these sorts of things need to be challenged. My mother is an English tutor with an M.A. and she buys lottery tickets and I've had a similar discussion. I don't think less of her for buying them, but I do wish that the entire system would disappear overnight sometimes. Another friend of mine is studying civil engineering and he ran across an eight line motorway once to reach me and another friend of mine. He said that he couldn't die because he was the protagonist of his story. I punched him on the arm and asked him if he felt it. He was pissed off, but replied in the affirmative. I pointed out that even if he didn't die, getting hit by a car would hurt one hundred times more than that. Little things like these need to be brought to light for some people and I think they're absolutely independent of any other issue.

That said I do see an analogue between the thrill people get out of watching the lottery results and the thrill people get out of killing Baron Rivendare for the 100th time. In both cases it's never the player that wins (except in finding a way to spend time and money, plus perhaps have a social activity), it's the corporation. Likewise, game streams do not produce a use value, merely satiate mind hunger. No different to sports in that respect. Maybe when robots produce the means of subsistence for everyone this will no longer be a concern.

Also I don't differentiate between stock markets and gambling in the aggregate, since wealth isn't generated by speculation, its generated by labour.

Taking the opposite view though, I think people are more likely to resort to such schemes in desperate times. When people see unemployment levels rising, their wages remaining the same as prices for necessities increase and other material aspects diminishing, they resort to any methods within their control. I saw a picture on facebook about how a palatial Church paid no tax while a family had to pay tax in a dilapidated house and someone pointed out in the comments that the family would probably rely on the Church once they could no longer afford to pay their mortgage.

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