Complete out of the loop since MoP. What happened to the DPS?

Publication par Xiamaru

...Yeah, I've kinda been away since... a long time. I just came back, and got my Feral Druid to level 90. I thought I was doing reasonable well, at about 20k...

...When I then heard the typical raider easily breaks 50k. That sorta bummed me out, so I tried reforging, gemming, enchanting... that sort of thing. Read up a lot on both EJ and Icy-veins. It made me break 25k, but no more. So, I decided I probably just sucked at Druids, and took up my Combat Rogue. Which was just as awful. I tried my Frost DK instead... and finally broke 30k.

But I just don't see how I could possible get myself a 100 % dps increase. Ever. Does the gear do that much of a difference? I'm only at entry-level heroic, but still - WorldofLogs show numbers as high as 150k, and at the lowest at 100k. How the hell do I scale such a massive wall? This isn't a specific character issue - It's generally on all my characters. I just don't see how 50 itemlevels could ever amount to a 400% dps increase. Am I doing something horribly wrong, or am I missing something glaringly obvious here?

Publication par Astygia

Since you've been gone a long time, it's probably several things. Gear's a huge part of it, as well as how you're reforging and gemming. I haven't done much with my feral yet this xpac, but unless I'm mistaken mastery's still your go-to after getting hit/expertise where they need to be. You'll want to check noxxic.com to be sure.

Beyond that, just make sure you're prioritizing your abilities correctly. I don't see as many kitties as I did in cata but the ones I do see, if played well, tear up the charts.

Publication par Izichial

Publication par ElhonnaDS

Publication par Xiamaru

Many fights in the current tier have either gimmicks like massive damage increases or AoE/cleave/multidotting. If you're comparing your damage from 5mans / training dummies you're missing a ton of raid buffs. Guilds with top logs average far better gear than you have, which means their fights are shorter, which means cooldown uptime (particularly bloodlust) is higher which inflates it even further.

Right, but 50k is a very middle-of the road number for someone who is clearing vaults. Top guilds are hitting much higher numbers. On Vault fights with no damage increasing mechanics, 50k is doing a decent job, but not blowing anyone away. On someone like Feng le Maudit, for example, my guild (which is fairly casual, and only just cleared Garalon) was doing between 45 and 70k per person. On fights with damage increasing mechanics, like Elegon, the ranged were getting closer to like 110-125k.

I agree that on dummies, you are always going to be pulling short of what you're actually capable of- you don't get the benefit of even 5-man buffs, you don't get the benefit of burn phases that are triggered by low health for a lot of characters. Gear makes a lot of difference too. What I would recommend is, if you have enough heroic gear to get into LFR, go do the actual fights with all of the 25-man buffs, the same burn phases, etc., and the compare your numbers to other people with your spec. Maybe look people who are doing well up and see what talents they picked, how they are gemmed, what the gear difference is like.

If there are no significant spec or gear differences, and you're following the recommended rotations, it could also be reaction speed or getting used to working around the movement in the fights. I took a 6 month break in Cata, and when I came back I was useless for a couple of weeks until I got back into the swing of things. If you've been gone a while, it may just take a little bit of getting used to things again.

Well, my biggest problem is that, even in Heroics with all the melee relevant buffs, I'm still sitting at about 25k, often lower due to horrible fights in general. Too much movement, target change (Losing out on CPs), or the mandatory bladestorm ability that it appears every single boss in MoP has.

I just don't see my DPS getting anywhere near 50k. Even if I look at the best gems and enchants available, I can't see those few stats make that much of a difference - I effectively need to double my damage. That seems completely impossible from my perspective.

I might just be too out of touch at the moment, and I'm kinda hoping it is. I'm giving my Druid a shot again, hoping it gets better with time. I'm just kinda surprised that the difference in bad and good DPS have made such a ridiculous jump since Cata. Back then, we talked maybe a 20% difference between the bad and the good. Now we're talking several hundred percents. Wow.

Publication par Br0tha

What is your item level ?

Link to your armory ?
How your Hit/Exp going ?

I'm a druid tank and in raid I pull 45-70k dps on boss.
Some DPS can easily goes up to 100k+ if they are really geared.

It's hard to help you if you don't give detail.

Publication par ElhonnaDS

@Xiamaru- remember also that you're still in heroic gear, or below, and the 50k target is more for people who have already gotten their LFR gear and are raiding normals. That will make a significant difference, too.

I personally don't have a feral druid above level 18 or something like that, so I am not able to help with specifics. But like Br0tha said, if you link your armory, someone who plays feral might be able to fill in some gaps.

Publication par 422429

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Publication par ameelia

Gear inflation. For example, the DPS difference between my Moonkin with my transmog heroic staff and the inscription epic staff, is about 30% (when I accidentally leave it on my Warlock :) ).

On my hunter she seems to get about 2k DPS for each tier increase in a single armour item.

Publication par Wombat62

gear really does make a difference .
For example on my hunter upgrading from the heroic dungeon gun to the one from HoF ( raid finder version ) was 4.5k even just adding the scope enchant was 1.5k jump in dps .

Publication par Xiamaru

Not going to bother linking my characters, because as I pointed out, it's not just my feral - It's all of them.

And just earlier today, I grouped up with a mage friend, who has lower itemlevel than me. I'm sitting at 461, and she had 442 - And easily broke 35k on a single target boss, while I barely pulled 25k.

Starting to wonder if it's the whole "Every boss has Bladestorm" that is screwing me over. Or maybe I'm just overreacting to it? I don't know. It seems like, the AoE of all bosses abilities, are = Apparent range*2, even when marked with red circles... So I usually end up running about 30 yards away from them.

...Or are Ranged just better off than Melee in this expansion?

Publication par lonewolfe31705

...Or are Ranged just better off than Melee in this expansion?

Ranged does have it a bit easier this expansion. HOWEVER, I have melee guildies that are keeping up with the ranged. Most classes have become extremely gear dependent, especially when it comes to weapons.

Publication par 992790

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Publication par BigH

Also a mage might not be the best to compare to. Depending on how my crits/procs line up (or don't), my 88 mage can pull anywhere from 15k to 50k DPS on a fight. Where my Feral Druid is a lot more consistent.

Out of curiosity, what ilvl is your DK?

Publication par ElhonnaDS

@ Ximaru- it could quite possibly be that you have errors in ALL of your characters specs, stat allocations or rotations, and that's why you have an issue across the board. If you want to get help fixing it, or at least ruling it out, then I'd suggest that you link the toons that you are having issues with, and post the rotation or ability priority you are using. If you don't then there probably isn't any more help we can give because we're not narrowing it down. I will say that barring certain fights, melee can and do keep up with ranged classes in terms of DPS output to gear ratio. We have a rogue and a warrior in our guild who do fine.

Generally with issues with DPS we have a Checklist we go through:

- Did you spec right?
- Are you following the right rotation or priority with your abilities?
- Are you hit and expertise capped?
- Are you prioritizing your other stats correctly for your spec?
- Are you using all your cooldowns and procs correctly?
- Are you using the correct gear for your spec?
- Are you key turning?
- What is your latency at? Your FPS?

If after that checklist you find that you are doing everything technically correctly, and you're not lagging either because of latency or because the graphics are lagging, then it's a matter of reflexes and response speed. Some people unfortunately just don't hit their buttons fast enough, don't have the coordination or reaction speed to adjust to boss movement or fight mechanics, etc. If that's what it is, then there isn't a whole lot you can do except practice and try to improve. But without going through the above checklist, it's hard to hazard a guess as to what the issue is.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##ElhonnaDS##DELIM##

Publication par Xiamaru

Followed the guides on Icy-veins, as well as using common sense in general. I'm by no means new to WoW, and was capable of topping the charts on single target fights as my Feral Druid in both Wrath and Cata.

My itemlevel on my DK is 450, and my Rogue is 458. Haven't really touched them since I tested them out on a dummy and in a heroic.

But I figured out what could potentially cause quite a bit of problems for both of them. My DK is dualwielding with... 425 and 433, and my Rogue has the same.

My druid has the Epic Inscription staff, upgraded. Meh, Probably just keep gearing it up, hoping things get better down the road.

EDIT: Just to make it clear here in the case of my Druid:

- Did you spec right? According to Icy-veins, yeah, I did.
- Are you following the right rotation or priority with your abilities? According to Icy-veins, mostly.
- Are you hit and expertise capped? Yes.
- Are you prioritizing your other stats correctly for your spec? Yes, using spreadsheets to value each item upgrade.
- Are you using all your cooldowns and procs correctly? Always. Haven't changed that much since Cata.
- Are you using the correct gear for your spec? ...Not sure what this means. I'm using leather with agility, and a 2-hander with agility, but that should be pretty obvious.
- Are you key turning? Hotkeyed it all away.
- What is your latency at? Your FPS? FPS is at 59. My... %^&*, my latency is at 712 right now.

Publication par ElhonnaDS

Good luck!

Publication par lonewolfe31705

Looks like your latency is part of the problem. That is about 10 times higher than the average for most people.

Also, if you go to the quest for Arena of Annihilation, you get a free 450 ilevel weapon. Keep in mind, this is a 3 man scenario you will have to que for.

Also, check with a BS and see if you can get the lvl 90 Masterwork Spiritblade Decimator for your death knight. As I said in my previous post, weapon ilevel makes the biggest dps increase for melee classes. My Paladin went from 35k to 42k just by picking up a better weapon.

Complete out of the loop since MoP. What happened to the DPS?

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