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12.1.7
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Warlock PvE Raiding Guide
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Post by
Yoschita
Hello Warlock addicts,
I tried to write a guide for Warlock players that will benefit them in deep PvE content and made some item comparisons. I tried to cover all parts I can but I know theres still much to add. Here I would like to share it with you. I will be glad if you share your opinions, and give me feedback.
Thanks.
http://www.unshifted.com/nightshift/index.php?view=article&catid=6%3Aguides&id=13%3Awarlock-raiding-guide&option=com_content&Itemid=26
Yoschita
Nightshift :: Karazhan-EU
Post by
Dunsinane
While I appreciate what you're attempting to do, and it is a good start, this has a lot of work to be done before it "goes live".
A few things that leap immediately to mind:
- You provide numbers without explaining why they are relevant until much later. The stats section would probably be best as an appendix (with caps to various stats shown), or simply worked into their proper sections.
- You state in your section on 0/40/21 that Demonic Knowledge provides a 300 spell damage boost. This is more than twice the actual bonus.
- Your gearing section promotes several weaker pieces, particularly T4. Accumulating 10k health for a warlock is easy without gimping your damage and crit. It is also out of date now that 2.4 is here and you may want to edit it with that in mind. Provide links or numbers on the gear you suggest and significant alternatives so people can compare pieces on their own.
- Your gearing section also assumes that people will know the gear. "Head from Hex Lord" for example refers to a trinket, but it wouldn't read that way to someone who doesn't already know what it is. Use full names. Explain what the item is.
- When you finally do start addressing numbers in gear, it's at the level where the people who are getting those pieces should already know what they're doing. It's far more important to explain the difference at the T4 level than the T6 level. Someone choosing between Leggings of the Malefic and the Leggings of Channeled Elements should already be able to balance these things.
- Your DPS cycle has affliction warlocks using CoA, even after earlier in the guide you point out that CoD is superior. You also do not include Siphon Life, which will increase the DPS of most affliction warlocks.
- A guide isn't a guide if you're using shorthand that assumes people know what your'e talking about. Spell it all out. WHY do we need/want 202 spell hit, or Hex's Shrunken Head, or a 0/21/40 talent build? How are those superior to stacking spell crit, using Quagmirran's Eye, or a 41/0/20 build? When is using one superior to the other? Don't assume a warlock knows what focus is, or how to make a macro.
Post by
Yoschita
Very good feedback. Thank you Dunsinane.
I will make a review this weekend and I will do some more edits.
Your DPS cycle has affliction warlocks using CoA, even after earlier in the guide you point out that CoD is superior. You also do not include Siphon Life, which will increase the DPS of most affliction warlocks.
This had been discussed on other forums before and Siphon Life does not increase DPS instead provides survivability. I will go deeper about this when I edit it and prove it.
It is also out of date now that 2.4 is here and you may want to edit it with that in mind.
You mean with the Sunwell Loot ?
Your gearing section promotes several weaker pieces, particularly T4. Accumulating 10k health for a warlock is easy without gimping your damage and crit.
Can you give more info on that ? A lock with Spellstrike and Shadoweave set has around 8K hp if thats what you mean at those levels "without gimping crit and damage" since they are the most dmg&crit giving items at those levels.
It's far more important to explain the difference at the T4 level than the T6 level.
Well, I'm actually aiming for end-game raiding but T4 sections needs improvements. Feel free to make suggestions. I'm always open to such.
Don't assume a warlock knows what focus is, or how to make a macro.
Well, I asume a warlock that knows how to play his character; If I should include the info you told I would be "How to play wow" instead of a Warlock Endgame PvE guide. There are guides that has details to give a starting player alot of info but I'm sharing my experiences here which are compiled for hardcore endgame raiders like Vashj kiting, Illidan tanking(will still be written).
I would be happy if you give me more feedback by the time goes, I do more edits and make it better.
Thanks.
Post by
Yoschita
Oh, now I see why you are interested in T4 level gear. You have a huge post of compilation of gears and their comparison at those levels. Havent read then yet thou. Keep up good work...
Post by
Dunsinane
It is also out of date now that 2.4 is here and you may want to edit it with that in mind.
You mean with the Sunwell Loot ?
Yes, that's what I'm pointing toward. As you're going to be working on editing the section, I suspect this will be easy to add in.
Your gearing section promotes several weaker pieces, particularly T4. Accumulating 10k health for a warlock is easy without gimping your damage and crit.
Can you give more info on that ? A lock with Spellstrike and Shadoweave set has around 8K hp if thats what you mean at those levels "without gimping crit and damage" since they are the most dmg&crit giving items at those levels.
That sounds about right for Spellstrike+Frozen Shadoweave. Looking at equivalents from badge loot at that level, the stats (specifically stamina) are comparable to T4 while providing significantly better caster numbers.
It's far more important to explain the difference at the T4 level than the T6 level.
Well, I'm actually aiming for end-game raiding but T4 sections needs improvements. Feel free to make suggestions. I'm always open to such.
Getting to endgame raiding does require getting past Kara and SSC. ;-) That, and the people who are that deep probably have a better understanding of what is going on as a rule.
Then again, this may well be my own bias speaking, as the most common raiding questions on this board tend to be people who want to run right to Black Temple raiding builds when their fresh 70 green and blue gear simply won't support it.
Don't assume a warlock knows what focus is, or how to make a macro.
Well, I asume a warlock that knows how to play his character; If I should include the info you told I would be "How to play wow" instead of a Warlock Endgame PvE guide. There are guides that has details to give a starting player alot of info but I'm sharing my experiences here which are compiled for hardcore endgame raiders like Vashj kiting, Illidan tanking(will still be written).
I would be happy if you give me more feedback by the time goes, I do more edits and make it better.
Thanks.
I point to macros because, as the class leader for my guild, I find that it is one of those areas that very few warlocks understand when they reach level 70. If you don't want to write a whole section on that, a simple link to one of the pages on WoWwiki and an explanation of why and when they are useful would serve the same purpose.
Looking forward to the next version.
Post by
Yoschita
Updated!
Dunsinane, I updated the parts that there might be errors and miscalculated but If you see any further, Id be glad if you point out to them exacly and I will try to fix asap.
Post by
Dunsinane
I'll go over this in more detail later tonight, but a quick scan shows a missing section - you've got a listing for "Key Talents" (good idea) and then no text after it.
Post by
Yoschita
I'll go over this in more detail later tonight, but a quick scan shows a missing section - you've got a listing for "Key Talents" (good idea) and then no text after it.
Yea, I'm planning to go in detail with talents like Ruin, Bane, DS etc...
Post by
Yoschita
Havent got ur feedback yet ?
Post by
Dunsinane
Sorry, reality leapt up and bit me.
Okay - top to bottom:
Leveling section - include a sample build for 50(affliction), 5x(demonology), 70. It may be an endgame raiding guide, but if you're going to put this section in then you should offer some guidance on builds.
Stats - I still think this would fit better as an appendix, but that's an editing issue. Ditto with the Spell Damage Coefficient tables.
Curses - You're lacking anything on CoEx, which sometimes gets used for kiting. Does CoW stack with demoralizing shout/roar now? And obvious as it might be, a paragraph on raid coordination of curses wouldn't be out of place.
Talent Builds - Looks solid, though I'd think that if you're 36 deep in affliction then Malediction is pretty much a given for 25-mans.
Gear, spell crit - Shadow Bolt goes to rank 11. An average shadow bolt is 572 (range 541-603) , crits for 858 (range 811-904), with Ruin for 1144 (range 1082-1206).
Gear, spell haste - Put all the number crunching in one spot. Makes it easier to find everything.
Gear, Karazhan - You begin the second paragraph stating that we're aiming for +spell hit gear, then you point to the Mindblade in the next sentence? I actually went to check to see if they'd added spell hit to it in 2.4! Pointing to highly useful pieces of +spell hit gear (Tirisfal Wand, Voodoo-woven Belt, etc) and then moving onto the non-spell hit (but still very good) pieces like the Mindblade after is more coherent if you want to emphasize spell hit.
Your stamina discussion probably deserves its own paragraph as well. There's no need to exaggerate numbers. No raiding warlock is at 6K health and mana. You'll have more than that in level 70 quest rewards.
If you're going to link my gear threads (I don't object at all), you may as well put all three in there. ;-)
How to DPS - Something on effective Life Tapping for the 0/21/40 build, maybe? I can't begin to count the number of warlocks I've had to nudge to life tap early in a fight to take advantage of various healing procs...
Post by
123758
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Twizzted
Something is terribly wrong here, at least something I'm not used to. There are no flames, just constructive comments. What a refreshing break from the official forums. I've been playing this game for several years and have only used those forums and thotbot databases until very recently. I generally go to the forums when I want info on a specific class, whether it be spec, gear, or general ideas. I've almost always had to rely on just doing what I thought was right, and obviously what made me feel like I was getting the most out of my toon because of the flame wars and useless garbage people post there. I'm not saying it's not on wowhead as well, but I've been very pleased with the info I've found so far.
Anyway, kudos to you guys and evryone else here that actually tries to help instead of putting others down just to make themselves feel superior. As far as your guide, I haven't even looked at it yet. I felt compelled to write this post in appreciation of what you are trying to do with it. I will get to it though as I've recently started playing my human lock again, only a lowbie at 38 but I see alot of potential in the class for me. I have a 46 undead lock but more or less stopped that one cuz all my r/l friends are ally. I know both are low when considering the road ahead of me and that is the reason I came here in the first place. Definitely looking for info on the best leveling spec for PVE, usually solo, or at most with one partner until I hit the higher levels.
So again, thank you very much for putting the time and effort in to help out us lowbies.
Post by
Dunsinane
Around here, we reserve our flames for those who either provide bad advice (and won't listen when they're shown why it's wrong) and for people who ask questions and repeatedly refuse to give us the info needed to answer them. ;-)
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