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Seal of Vengeance
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Post by
119010
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Post by
TheRealAzoth
It's for tanking bosses. You can think of it as a DoT that the tank can put up on the boss that keeps ticking once stacked to 5. It allows the tank to more easily keep aggro for the long haul. You can use it as holy to grind mobs but I think SoR would be a much better option.
Post by
106896
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Post by
56667
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Post by
Philmckraken
ok i just dinged 64 and got the seal of vengeance power, i thought about it but couldnt accept it.i think it does lower dps than SoR. well then why would i need it?
some1 plz tell me why or how it would benifit me if i used over SoR
im 64 holy btw
SoV does more damage than SoR. Use a weapon with a 2.0 speed, and it will 5-stack in no time. Once it's stacked, each swing generates additional holy damage, (and will maintain the stack as long as the mob is alive) and the judgment does more than JoR.
Its primary use is for tanking, but it still does greater DPS than any other seal you have. Learn it, use it, love it.
Post by
Blightman
Also remember that in 2.2 they added an effect to it so that once the full 5 stack is up it acts like a weak version of SoR, getting a holy bonus damage on hit. And int 2.3 they upped this damage a little
As of Patch 2.2.0 Seal of Vengeance deals a small amount of Holy Damage if it strikes a target with 5 stacks of the debuff already applied
As of Patch 2.3: The bonus damage this ability dealt when the debuff is fully stacked on the target was incorrectly too low. It is now increased.
This bonus damage is < than the damage SoR does but there is also the 5 stack of the DOT and the JoV (5 stack) > JoR.
Basically if the mob will die before you get a 5 stack then SoR is probably more efficient. SoV has a proc rate of 20 per minute or basically once every 2 seconds. So you can't get the 5 stack in less than 10secs.
Post by
Philmckraken
This bonus damage is < than the damage SoR does but there is also the 5 stack of the DOT and the JoV (5 stack) > JoR.
Basically if the mob will die before you get a 5 stack then SoR is probably more efficient. SoV has a proc rate of 20 per minute or basically once every 2 seconds. So you can't get the 5 stack in less than 10secs.
Yeah, what he said...
The way I look at it, after 10 seconds (for the full stack to proc), your SoV DoTs are adding about 50dps, then you judge it for at least 700 and re-seal. Lather, rinse, repeat. Once I got that seal, I didn't run into a single boss/elite whose aggro I couldn't hold for the duration of the fight.
http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=17882
was supposed to be a challenge for a paladin tank when it came to maintaining threat...Yeah, right.
Post by
Blightman
Yeah, what he said...
I'm not real, I'm just Phil's theory crafting addon :)
Heh, we say about the same thing I just keep using those pesky numbers.
Post by
Philmckraken
Yeah, what he said...
I'm not real, I'm just Phil's theory crafting addon :)
Heh, we say about the same thing I just keep using those pesky numbers.
If you haven't already, I would seriously consider a career in engineering if I were you. Numbers = fact. Me, I take the sales approach:
"Hey, I don't know the exact figures, but trust me when I say this will work..."
You design something epic, and I'll market it for you. We'll be millionaires in no time!
Post by
Blightman
Lol, I translate human to computer for a living
Post by
Philmckraken
Lol, I translate human to computer for a living
Yike! Does it hurt to be that smart, surrounded by cave people? I've often wondered...
Post by
Blightman
Lol, I translate human to computer for a living
Yike! Does it hurt to be that smart, surrounded by cave people? I've often wondered...
Yes, yes it does.
That's when I use Flash of Light....or is that flashlight?
Post by
119010
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Post by
120142
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Post by
Philmckraken
hey so since i have judgement of crusader on enemy, SoR would do more right?
It might. But JotC+ SoV still does more damage.
Seriously, why are you still clinging to SoR? The only seals/judgments that do less damage are Wisdom, Justice and Light. Ret paladins get lucky, they can stop using the silly thing as soon as they get Command. Tanks and healers are stuck with it and its piddly damage until level 64.
Seriously, when I was a 64 tank, I wasn't convinced about SoV either...Until I used it once. After that, SoR was just a waste of a hotkey. When I respecced to Ret, I learned very quickly to love SoC. Again, SoR does not waste any space on my UI.
Post by
Blightman
hey so since i have judgement of crusader on enemy, SoR would do more right?
Actually no SoR fairs even worse after you judge crusader. Rank 7 of JoCr adds +190 holy spell damage modifier.
The spell damage coefficients for Sor/Jor/Sov/Jov are as follows:
Seal of Righteousness 1H w/ 1.0 weapon speed 9.2%
Seal of Righteousness 2H w/ 1.0 weapon speed 10.8%
Judgement of Righteousness 71.43%
Seal of Vengeance (per tick) 17.0%
Judgement of Vengeance 42.86%
While JoR has a coefficient of 71.43% it base damage range is 208 to 228 while with 5 stacks the base range of JoV is 600.
So Jor + JoCr = 228+(190*.7143)= 363.717
JoV + JoCR = 600+(190*.4268)= 681.092
The Sov ticks get more benifit from JoCr than Sor swings. the only # I don;t have is the coefficient for the bonus damage SoV gets after all 5 stacks are up. At a guess it would be the same as SoR
Post by
8775
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Post by
Philmckraken
Remember that even with some amount of +spell hit & the appropriately slower weapon, SoV doesn't build to a 5-stack very quickly. So at the beginning of a long/boss pull, you'll want to judge Righteousness 1st for a decent threat lead, then judge Crusader, then finally work on that SoV stack (switching to the slow weapon perhaps)
I never had that problem, to be honest...I usually started every pull (even bosses) with Avenger's Shield, and told the DPS guys to "count to 3 after you see the big shiny hammer fall from the sky" before opening up. Gotta keep things simple for them, ya know?
Post by
Blightman
So at the beginning of a long/boss pull, you'll want to judge Righteousness 1st for a decent threat lead, then judge Crusader, then finally work on that SoV stack (switching to the slow weapon perhaps)
Wow, you go through 2 judgments before starting SoV? With talents thats an 8sec min before you have a chance to get your 1st SoV on the boss. For a long fight getting that 5 stack up sooner is going to generate more threat over the course of the fight than that 1 JoR will give you.
Assume max dmg for JoR of 228 and your spell damage is 300 and you have improved judgment talent (8s judgments):
So a JoR followed by JoCr 8s later has
(228+(300*0.7143))*1.9 = 840.351 TP generated
Now JoCr with JoV 8s later is harder to say.
Each SoV stack will generate (150/15s) + (300+199)*.17) * 1.9 = 180.18 TPS
And the JoVs with JoCr applied will generate :
JoV w/ 1 SoV stack = (120+((300+199)*.4286)) * 1.9 = 634.36 TP generated
JoV w/ 2 SoV stack = (240+((300+199)*.4286)) * 1.9 = 862.36 TP generated
JoV w/ 3 SoV stack = (360+((300+199)*.4286)) * 1.9 = 1090.36 TP generated
JoV w/ 4 SoV stack = (480+((300+199)*.4286)) * 1.9 = 1318.36 TP generated
JoV w/ 5 SoV stack = (600+((300+199)*.4286)) * 1.9 = 1546.36 TP generated
If we are lucky then in 8s we will get 2 SoV stacks will be up so:
862.36+(3s * 1 SoV) + (2s * 2 SoV) = 1402.89
If we only get 1 SoV up and its on 2nd weapon swing then:
634.36 +(2s*1 SoV) = 994.72
Honestly the only way a JoR/JoCr beats a JoCr/JoV sequence is if SoV doesn't stack before the judgment CD clears. In addition the JoCr will up your threat from your other holy attacks such as consecration during that same time period.
I never had that problem, to be honest...I usually started every pull (even bosses) with Avenger's Shield, and told the DPS guys to "count to 3 after you see the big shiny hammer fall from the sky" before opening up. Gotta keep things simple for them, ya know?
AS generally gives me plenty of threat as well.
tell my DPS to wait for me to turn on the disco dance floor(consecration) before opening up. Only the
reeaaly
slow ones have trouble knowing that DPS begins when the ground around me is glowing yellow and I wouldn't trust them to count to 3 :)
Post by
Lightrain
Hehe, well, as holy SoR is usually better. We are a burst class when it comes to dps. Our normal dps sucks, but if we burst we kill descently. Holy shock + JoR= half the hp of the target off the bat when you are leveling. JoV has to stack before you can judge it. So in practice, you can generally down a mob with the second holy shock/JoR. Yes, if this is the case, it is more efficient. If it is not, and you have to grind the mob for a bit, SoV/JoV/Holy Shock is more efficient. Yes. Especially for the long haul. I grinded a lvl 72 elite down to half HP on my holy pally before someone finally came to help me. SoV stack/flash heal mania/save the SoV stack/JoV/flash heal mania..... LOL! You can't do that with SoR/JoR/shock. It will drain your mana too fast. One of these days I will re-gem my gear for longevity and try to solo a fel reaver for fun. I may fall asleep before it happens tho.... LOL! =)
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