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Question on Hodir..
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Post by
Bruenor80
Does the damage reduction from Predatory Instincts to AoE apply to the debuff that you get on Hodir? I ask because we have been having trouble with Hodir lately(casual guild, many of our best raiders are busy irl atm), so we have decided we're going to all get at least one piece of the frost resist gear...this really doesn't work for me because replacing any of the pieces(boots, belt, chest) is going to drop me signifigantly below the Hit or Expertise cap...I personally haven't had issues with dying before hand but that may just be because I can shift out of the ice nova's. We have downed hodir 3-4 times without the frost resist, but with all the newer people due to our normal raiders being busy we just can't seem to get past him... Thanks in advance.
EDIT: This is for kitty, our Feral tank has the full polar set and uses it.. For the record I assume it doesn't work but was hoping someone more knowledgeable about the talent would tell me I was wrong.
Post by
219211
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Bruenor80
Like I said, I shift out of them so I never get the stacks, but I'm not the one leading the raid. I just wanted to know if I could honestly tell him that I get 30% reduction on the damage already from that talent and not waste my time and gold getting the frost gear....most of it is people not paying attention, as the same 5 people are left alive at the end each time(me, tank, spriest, disc prest, resto shammy-I don't know how we can down the other watchers with this group but not hodir but that's how it is right now =/ )
Post by
124864
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Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
219211
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Post by
Cenan
When my guild first started doing Hodir, we had everyone who had frost resist gear, put on one or two pieces of it, after wiping twice or so to healer troubles. After that, it was all smooth sailing. Frost resist gear does make an impact, and can help, as long as your dps isn't stupidly low to fail to enrage or something.
Post by
Bruenor80
If people are dying, then you either have bad raiders or bad healers. If people are dying to falling icicles, then that's their own fault and those people need to learn how to stay out of the bad stuff. If people are dying at any other time, like Frozen Blows, than it's most likely the healers.
I get that, this group(other than the 5 staying alive) are fairly new to raiding but do decent on the other 3 watchers.. the healers are fine, lots of people have been getting boned by the icicles for various reason.. I wasn't asking about how good or bad the people in with me were, I just wanted to be sure that the talent reduced damage taken for me from that particular effect and save myself the trouble of getting frost resist.
Post by
QuestionC
Predatory Instincts does reduce the damage from Frozen Blows.
In general, the returns from wearing resistance gear far outweigh any DPS loss on a resistance fight. The formula for spell resist is amazingly generous. Pretending that not wearing resist gear will help one's guild on Hodir is just greed.
Post by
Kaitain
P.S. I really don't see much sense in having people wear frost resistance. If they die due to icicles - they will keep dying to them with resist gear, if healers can't keep them up during frozen blows - healers are really bad and need to learn how to heal.
I disagree with people that like to make things harder..one frost res piece wont really impact anything but significantly help the healers... and blizzard wants resistance to be useful, halo!
All im saying if the run is less than perfect..and frost res is a solution itsnt *pointless* teehee
I don't think any of the raid need frost resist gear (apart from tanks ofc) because you can use the correct tactic to avoid a lot of the spikey incoming damage.
The main thing to do to boost your survivability is
get the NPCs out of the ice as fast as you can!
After every Flash Freeze the ENTIRE raid needs to get the NPCs out asap.
There are a couple of reasons for this:
The MAGE NPCs
(
Amira Blazeweaver/Veesha Blazeweaver
if you are horde
Missy Flamecuffs/Sissy Flamecuffs
if you are alliance)
create the bonfires. Standing near the bonfires means you get a buff and can stay still and not get the Biting Cold debuff. So once a bonfire is up, all ranged should be near it, and all they have to do is avoid the falling icicles. The icicles make a mark on the floor about 3 seconds before they hit so there is no reason anyone should ever get hit.
The PRIEST NPCs
(
Battle-Priest Eliza/Battle-Priest Gina
if you are horde
Field Medic Penny/Field Medic Jessy
if you are alliance)
cast a Mass Dispell that will free your raid from frost novas. I think your own priests can free people that way also.
So basically, the raid can avoid a lot of spikey damage and it can be healed by as little as 4 healers.
Post by
QuestionC
P.S. I really don't see much sense in having people wear frost resistance. If they die due to icicles - they will keep dying to them with resist gear, if healers can't keep them up during frozen blows - healers are really bad and need to learn how to heal.
I disagree with people that like to make things harder..one frost res piece wont really impact anything but significantly help the healers... and blizzard wants resistance to be useful, halo!
All im saying if the run is less than perfect..and frost res is a solution itsnt *pointless* teehee
I don't think any of the raid need frost resist gear (apart from tanks ofc) because you can use the correct tactic to avoid 90% of the incoming damage.
....
So basically, the raid can pretty much avoid all incoming damage and it can be healed by as little as 4 healers.
Frozen Blows, is easily most of the damage.
Frozen Blows is the primary cause of most player deaths in Hodir.
Frozen Blows is not not avoidable outside of wearing Frost resist or damage avoidance abilities.
I agree you don't
need
frost resist on Hodir, but it makes the fight easier.
Post by
Kaitain
ye fair point, i got that all muddled. In my raids frozen blows never killed anyone, falling icicles and the DoT did. Which i guess comes down to competent raid healers.
Frozen Blows is 100% predictable though. not hard to heal. Spikey accidental dmg can be unhealable.
As an example - in our Hodir kill yesterday the contrast between the best and worst players damage in was as follows:
Both - 160k from Frozen Blows
Best Player - 8k damage from other sources
Worst player - 152k damage from other sources
Editted original post to reflect reality better :-P
Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kaitain
The main thing to do to boost your survivability is
get the NPCs out of the ice as fast as you can!
After every Flash Freeze the ENTIRE raid needs to get the NPCs out asap.
There are a couple of reasons for this:
The MAGE NPCs
(
Amira Blazeweaver/Veesha Blazeweaver
if you are horde
Missy Flamecuffs/Sissy Flamecuffs
if you are alliance)
create the bonfires. Standing near the bonfires means you get a buff and can stay still and not get the Biting Cold debuff. So once a bonfire is up, all ranged should be near it, and all they have to do is avoid the falling icicles. The icicles make a mark on the floor about 3 seconds before they hit so there is no reason anyone should ever get hit.
The PRIEST NPCs
(
Battle-Priest Eliza/Battle-Priest Gina
if you are horde
Field Medic Penny/Field Medic Jessy
if you are alliance)
cast a Mass Dispell that will free your raid from frost novas. I think your own priests can free people that way also.
So basically, the raid can avoid a lot of spikey damage and it can be healed by as little as 4 healers.
I disagree with some of the above statements. The
only
NPC's that are worth breaking out are the mages. After you break out the mages, they will inturn break out the rest of the NPC's and you can focus on Hodir and utilize their camp fires. We do this on 25 man Hodir for Hard Mode and it works out perfectly, and we also only use 4 healers.
If your priests are slow, then yes, I guess it would be a good idea to break out priests too, but it's not necessary once you've gotten the mages out.
the OPer is not doing hard mode which i the only reason i mentioned the priests. he did mention Nova on raid also. For hard mode yes it's all about the Mages (and the Shammans) :-)
Post by
219211
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lightrain
You use raid icons. Have a priest mind vision the ice cubes at the start and put raid icons on the actual mages themselves.
Problem solved.
Otherwise, you have to mark them after you kill the iceblock. That's not hard either...
Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pelf
You use raid icons. Have a priest mind vision the ice cubes at the start and put raid icons on the actual mages themselves.
Problem solved.
Otherwise, you have to mark them after you kill the iceblock. That's not hard either...
This is exactly what you should do. The two mages are targeted by name and have consistent icons set on them for each of our Hodir fights. I have a macro that I use to do just that as soon as I arrive at the room. To echo the above, the mages are the only ones you should break out
during
the fight. To give the tank a few moments to build threat, the raid breaks them all out the very first time, for us. Hodir will not aggro even if you cross the room to directly in front of the blocks which we do. Everyone gets into position, countdown from 7 over vent and everyone breaks the blocks.
Post by
219211
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pelf
Interesting idea, we may try it some day. For now though, our kill of Hodir took 2:36 and is #18 fastest on wowmeteronline.com So it's definitely not a slow way to break all the adds.
10 or 25?
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