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PvP: Why Discipline over Holy?
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Post by
352525
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Post by
karlusdavius
Before wotlk, Survivability
After Wotlk, Survivability and Penance
Thats pretty much it. Nothing beats penance. The synergy the tree has is immense. It can survive being focused on for a prolonged period of time and has the burst healing and mitigation capable of outlasting burst damage without using long CD's in order to do so.
Thats why its better, in a nut shell. There are plenty of PvP posts if you search for them with much greater detail as to why such talents disc have are needed.
Post by
352525
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Post by
68759
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Post by
Patty
If you are going to PvP best get some simple Resilience gear, for example the
Frostsavage Set
is quite cheap to make or get made, and is decent for starting out in pvp until you can get other gear from PvP.
Also, Holy doesn't have
Pain Suppression
or the
Glyph
which makes it all the more godly.
Penance, even if 3 ticks dont come off, is a great heal seeing as the first effect is an instant heal.
Just a couple of quick reasons why Disc is superior to Holy in PvP.
Post by
352525
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Post by
Elrael
Also, I have Holy gear on my priest (from Naxxramas and Ulduar). Could I still specialize in Discipline?
The difference between Holy gear and Disc gear is small. But the difference of PvE and PvP gear is big. PvE gear is designed around the idea the only damage you as priest get is boss AoE damage. Mostly they got just enough stamina an no resilience to save yourself from crits in PvP.
I sometimes do a few BGs. Then I heal like I'm unstoppable until one blue geared rogue wtfpwns me. In arena they will always focus on you (from what I hear). So all do you is wait to die, because your teammates won't get attacked until the enemy is sure the damage "stays".
Conclusion: Even blue gear with resilience keeps you longer alive then epic raid gear. And being alive longer helps an arena team more then strong heals in (most situations).
Post by
Aldones
PW:S for disc priests is also approximately 1/3 stronger on a disc priest and looses its 4s CD. If holy has a shield absorbing 4k, disc will 6k. Furthermore, disc has DA procs, shielding the target for 30% of any crit heal (up to 10k). Try taking someone out when disc just added 10k absorption (not hard to do at all) to someone's hp and still has the means of healing them. DA also ignores overhealing, so if you crit someone for 9k while they were at full hp, they still get the 3k shield.
As far as Penance goes, for those of you that don't know, you get 1/3 of the heal instantly, 1/3 of the heal a second later, and 1/3 of the heal a second after that - that being w/o haste.
Yet again disc naturally favors FHeal, whereas holy naturaly favors GHeal. It may not seem like much, but in PvP the faster your heal gets off, the better. Both Penance and FHeal make healing a whole lot better in PvP. Heals like CoH are worthless in PvP b/c in BGs, the party will never be together for you, and in Arena no one attacks everyone at the same time.
Post by
karlusdavius
coh is raid wide not party. And its ok in mass BG's, but the raid never really takes mass damage at the same time. its usually focus fire, which is where disc is strongest
http://eu.wowarmory.com/arena-ladder.xml?b=Coliseum+1&ts=3
Check out team number 2 to 9.
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277515
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105402
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357768
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Post by
Aldones
Holy has outstanding AoE abilities and great single-target abilities. Discipline has outstanding single-target abilities and decent AoE abilities. Do what you most enjoy. If you like being on the top of the healing meters and healing everyone, go holy. If you like being that special person keeping the tank alive, go disc.
The only thing I could see holy doing in a raid situation on the tank is keeping Renew on him. Even if a disc healer is on the tank, holy's Renew is quite a bit stronger than disc's.
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108376
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Post by
Patty
Holy has outstanding AoE abilities and great single-target abilities. Discipline has outstanding single-target abilities and decent AoE abilities. Do what you most enjoy. If you like being on the top of the healing meters and healing everyone, go holy. If you like being that special person keeping the tank alive, go disc.
The only thing I could see holy doing in a raid situation on the tank is keeping Renew on him. Even if a disc healer is on the tank, holy's Renew is quite a bit stronger than disc's.
Pre-Dual spec I was sometimes assigned to tank healing as holy, specifically in fights like Patchwerk.
The heals I found myself using most as a holy tank healer were PoM, Renew, Flash Heal, and greater heals when needed.
Post by
karlusdavius
Read the Title, Keep on topic
Holy has outstanding AoE abilities and great single-target abilities. Discipline has outstanding single-target abilities and decent AoE abilities. Do what you most enjoy. If you like being on the top of the healing meters and healing everyone, go holy. If you like being that special person keeping the tank alive, go disc.
The only thing I could see holy doing in a raid situation on the tank is keeping Renew on him. Even if a disc healer is on the tank, holy's Renew is quite a bit stronger than disc's.
No tanks in pvp
Post by
Paolo
No tanks in pvp
Are you serious?
Priests
are pvp tanks my friend :) It's why we stack stam & resilience (like a tank), and I even wear a
tank trinket
. (For now.)
But back on topic...as has been said above, disc > holy because of:
Penance and its glyph (best heal in the game)
Pain suppression and its glyph (amazing survivability)
Stronger shields (good for so many reasons..."an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" kind of thing)
The bigger heals you get from holy are 100% useless if you're dead, which is why disc priests don't gem for spellpower almost at all. We gem for survival, so our smaller heals actually make a difference.
I'd rather my toon be alive and throwing smaller heals than dead and healing in SoR for 21 seconds.
Post by
karlusdavius
No tanks in pvp
Are you serious?
Priests
are pvp tanks my friend :) It's why we stack stam & resilience (like a tank), and I even wear a
tank trinket
. (For now.)
But back on topic...as has been said above, disc > holy because of:
Penance and its glyph (best heal in the game)
Pain suppression and its glyph (amazing survivability)
Stronger shields (good for so many reasons..."an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" kind of thing)
The bigger heals you get from holy are 100% useless if you're dead, which is why disc priests don't gem for spellpower almost at all. We gem for survival, so our smaller heals actually make a difference.
I'd rather my toon be alive and throwing smaller heals than dead and healing in SoR for 21 seconds.
look at the context of the post before replying.
Post by
Ethix
Disc is far more mobile than holy is. Holy doesn't offer anything vital for pvp (blessed resilience is pretty nice but ehhh), but penance and pain suppression are required to do well in 2v2 and 3v3 brackets imo. The glyph for pain suppression and self target penance means that one rogue can never kill you now. Even with my 800res, I could be killed by a geared rogue in one stunlock rotation.
Disc offers the mobility to smartly los a lot more than holy does. As holy you'll be stuck casting flash heal a lot more and a higher chance of being interrupted then it's gg for you. Also, reflective shield ends up doing quite a lot more damage than you think. I think it's pretty much required to get past those pesky double dps teams in 2v2's.
Post by
razzem
I don't get where you guys say that Disc is more mobile.
Renew, PoM are both better for Holy. PW:S isn't as much due to the cost (no Soul Warding or Rapture), but it can be very nearly as much with Spiritual Healing and Spiritual Guidance and Blessed Resilience all adding to it. Stronger instant casts for Holy, imo.
The problem with Holy is survivability and mana-regen. B.Rec and B.Res don't stack up to the mitigation that Disc offers with Focus Will, DA, and Pain Supression, plus the sick, sick Penance that has such a high crit chance and hps. Holy runs OOM too easily in PvP.
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