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10.2.5
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10.2.6
Paladins ONLY geming for int
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Post by
141701
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Post by
172720
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Post by
slasher0161
Brique you seem to be taking a very obnoxious stance to what people are saying, neither way is wrong and because you are geared for HL spam doesn't mean you can't toss off FoL but primarily you would use HL when gearing heavy int, otherwise you would get better bang for your buck out of gearing sp and using heavy FoL spam + huge scared shield absorption to maintain your tank.
I'm currently doing a math assignment so can't be bothered to crunch the numbers now, but once i'm finished that i will be more then happy to go and find some figures for you and spread sheet it out just to see the break point. Actually now looking at it that could be kind of interesting thank you for being stubborn, though an open mind is always good =D
Post by
Brique
It's still enough. It worked for me, my tank never died, I didn't die. Yes I could have gotten higher HPS, but did it matter in the end? The HPS you can get from Holy Light is not necessary. Stacking Intellect is necessary. The SP you'd need to stack in order to "rival the HPS of HL" is unnecessary.
This has become ridiculous. Are people so certain about the theoretical value of something they neglect to actually use it in a situation that their gear is meant to be stressed in? Start healing hardmodes.
You will no doubt see that spell selection is dictated by the fight and not your gear.
The content you're able to do is dictated by your gear. The stats you have on your gear is dictated by random chance. The spell usage is in direct relation to your longevity, and your longevity is dictated by what you gem for. Intellect is the best choice for longevity, and is the best choice for
progressing
. With such a limited selection of spells to use, what makes you think ignoring any one of them is for the best?
Do I simply seem like I'm spewing pointless stubborn indignation? I'm stubborn on my terms. I adapt; I think adapting is how you play this game, and especially how you deal with content that's difficult. Yes. I very much am stubborn on my terms. I'm saying adapt to the encounter. That seems reasonable. I honestly want to see you prove me wrong with a boss kill screenshot along with your spell usage instead of a mathematical comparison.
Everything that forces the encounter to adapt to how you play the game is the same thing that pushed the Sarth +3 zerg kills you can see people advertising in trade every day. It's a dumb way to play. It's forcing a round peg into a square hole. You'll slam yourself facefirst until it works huh? That certainly isn't right at all.
Post by
slasher0161
Woah slow down here i don't want to turn this into a @#$%^ fest here, what i'm trying to say is that from a mathematical point of view (this game is freaking 1's and 0's remember) if your using FoL as your primary heal stacking sp in fact will work out better.
I'm not trying to say you shouldn't adapt in any way shape or form, infact i like change and seeing if things will adapt to a circumstance that is completely different from its normal environment. Now as for backing up any of my claims with a boss kill i can't simply for 2 reasons primarily because i have exams starting next week and there is no way in hell i'm gimping my school results (yes i'm in year 11 if you want to make something of that) for a lousy forum disagreement, but secondly because i'm in a very casual guild and have been with them for 4 years now and see no reason to ditch them to get in another guild to get the gear to win an internet disagreement.
Now if your interested in this spreadsheet i will happily make it up this weekend amongst my small amount of spare time and then we can see with math (which is in essence what this entire game revolves around) which outcome is better (yes i do understand that under set circumstances things won't work out quite as sim'd but thats life).
Is my proposal not fair?
ps. i also meant my statement about you being obnoxious about your out of game stance, i imagine you adapt very well in game and good for you.
Post by
Brique
Woah slow down here i don't want to turn this into a @#$%^ fest here, what i'm trying to say is that from a mathematical point of view (this game is freaking 1's and 0's remember) if your using FoL as your primary heal stacking sp in fact will work out better.
You're still saying using one heal primarily is a good decision. You're still very wrong. You've seen the BURST lull BURST cycle, and you need the mana pool to make it through it. SP is not going to help a Holy Paladin heal for the duration of a fight that tests the limits of your character. Flash of Light well balanced for the lulls in a fight.
Do not say you're "gearing for Holy Light" because that's a load of crap. You gear for the regen, you gear for the mana pool, you gear to be able to sustain for six to ten minutes regardless of your spell choice.
I'm not interested in a spreadsheet. If you were to do it, you'd find the HPM of Flash of Light marginally (but not entirely,) better than Holy Light. You'd find the HPS is dramatically different unless you gear heavily for SP. You'd see that it'd take about 3000 more SP than there is available on gear to actually see FoL performing in the same level. This wouldn't accomplish anything but give more kindling to the untried and untrue idea you continue to keep preaching that the total HPS you can put out is what will make you succeed. In game, it's the HPS you can sustain that will. I do not think the highest possible output is what your brain should be thinking about with limited resources to get that output.
I'm interested in anyone proving me wrong because it's the only way I'll shut up and I'll stop spouting off my rant-driven discourse that's easily misunderstood as elitist attacks on someone's ego or lifestyle. I'll sure attack philosophy though. It's meant to be torn apart until you get to a point where it's so raw that it can't be false. The mathematical point of view will not apply to people. It's a language like any other, but to be perfectly honest, I like skewing words so people actually can disagree with me on the irrational (non-mathematical) level they normally will resort to. It's better than the +/- (yes/no, correct/incorrect) language mathematics will take. It won't prove me wrong, because it doesn't relate at all. There's a lot of space between + and - and "right but not applicable" doesn't exist there. You'd rule me out entirely as if I'd said nothing in the first place if you decided to spreadsheet it out. It will be unavoidably correct, and if I said anything to oppose it I'd be wrong, even if I said "No wait, all that work you put into it was worthless. I'm talking about something different this whole time and all you can do is simply read my answer as a one or a zero. Right or wrong. #$%^. I hate math." We have different ideals I suppose. Mine simply refuse to interact yours.
I'm not posting anything new in this thread anymore. I've said all I can about this subject, why we gem the way we do besides the statistical superiority, how spell usage isn't something you should restrict yourself with based on gear, and how random your output can be. No one's argued any of these points with anything but with second hand assumptions and misguided threats of math.
Post by
slasher0161
I think you missed the key point here, when once did i mention highest HPS? i didn't its a set-up designed to sheild large amounts of damage while still having the ability to sustain very respectable healing numbers. Did i once say you were using only one heal no. However i'm pretty sure you can agree even if only mentally here for a second that you will tend to use one heal more then the other (especially if you gear is "SLIGHTLY" (figured i wouldn't need to put that in that but apparently your so anal i need to spoon feed every last detail) better suited to one healing style vs another).
If my information is so drastically incorrect then please explain why some of the top raiding guilds world wide have some of their holy paladins with a gear set that picks up 4p T8 + 51/20/0 + gems pure sp and does everything possible to max their sp out for huge absorbtion of ss; for Hc Anub?
Did i ever once say OMG HE/SHE IS DOING IT ENTIRELY WRONG YOU SHOULD STACK AGI GUYS!
Anyway don't expect a reply and i will go to the effort of finding the approx break even point for #$%^s and giggles. Goodnight / morning anyway and i hope you didn't actually break a sweat over this because i only meant to try discuss this with you but you jumped straight on the offensive.
Post by
jefflovealex
Wooh you kooky characters and your inconsistent geekish rants. I'll never leave wowhead. No i don't run pew pew pew ownage tier 9 characters. But i can smell nerdrage like fresh coffee.
Post by
valundar
Paladins should be gemming for +win
where have you all been?
Post by
485408
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Post by
Quest
They stack int now, because its better.
The difference is, they can spam HL as much as you can spam FoL. Thats a more agile healer.
Try the hard modes.
Post by
Brique
but pally does not go OOM anyway i would rather get higher heals rather than worrying about how good my mana bar looks.
Stop doing easy modes. Paladins do go OOM during the tail end of fights if they're handling damage they're responsible to heal on fights that their gear is meant to handle. If you're in 245 gear, then look at ToGC 25.
Tanks are intended to get hit hard and fast. FoL spam will not cut it during those periods no matter how much SP you stack. Stacking Intellect has no downside, your FoL is still strong enough to deal with the lulls in boss damage, and your HL can be used for the full duration of a BURST cycle. If you limit your mana pool by gemming for SP, you will not be able to last enough of those BURST cycles to down the boss, and your FoL will not deliver the HPS needed to top it off without an extra healer helping you. For Anub 25 ToGC (now with Tribute to Mad Skill!) we used two Holy Paladins healing both tanks. We used four raid healers that never touched the tank and focused entirely on Penetrating Cold. They had no place cross healing. It would kill a raider if they ignored their assignment. The two Holy Paladins scraped their mana, balancing DP time with tank cooldowns. FoL spam wouldn't keep a tank up. It's very reactive. If you are anticipating damage, then the HL will land and fully heal the tank in less than a second of the damage. That's the baseline.
You need to heal that damage to full in less than one GCD.
Any more, and you'll need a second or third healer to help.
I don't think it's "cool" I have so much mana; I think it's the only way I keep myself from going OOM on content that's actually difficult.
Post by
112375
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335817
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325788
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134104
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120897
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Post by
Quest
I think the OP ran away crying a long time ago, brah.
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