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Omen - Worth using?
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Post by
239153
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Cloud8690
If you are a dps'er you could delete omen and not have a problem provided you keep an eye out on your threat %. If you are a tank, then you need it.
Post by
Wanderingfox
Omen is providing the SAME threat values that the Blizzard UI does. The difference is that Omen makes it much easier to actually tell what threat level you're at. The blizzard UI only tells you about target changes, when you're getting high on the list, and finally when you pull aggro.
Omen will actually show you your raw threat value in comparison to everyone else. This let's you worry about threat reduction later (since you have a more precise threat list, you can drop threat later), which means more time DPSing, which means quicker boss kills.
Either way, it's up to you, but I personally prefer the more detailed threat list from Omen.
Post by
pelf
I wouldn't want to play without Omen unless, possibly, I was healing. Then, if I pulled aggro it wasn't something wrong with me, it's just time to get a new tank :).
Post by
161859
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Wanderingfox
Course it does, but it's not going to tell you you have a threat issue until AFTER the images merge. That's the main difference between the Blizzard SCT style notifications and Omen. Blizzard's implementation is reactionary, while omen is proactive.
Post by
161859
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Post by
4466
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Vlet
If you're doing your job as a DPS, you want Omen. If you're a tank, you want Omen. If you're a specifically a Rogue or a Hunter (misdirects) you
definitely
want Omen.
Healers likely don't need it. However it's nice to have the audible warning on those rare occasions that something is coming your way.
I disagree. If your tank is doing his or her job, and you give them a moment or so to grab agro, you really should have to worry too much about threat. The only time I ever see a tank lose threat in a raid is not because someone is out-threating the tank, but because of other shenanigans are going on. The built-in is more than enough to tell you that maybe it's time to back off a bit. In BC, I wouldn't dare raid without Omen, but these days, I don't even think about my threat.
Post by
Wanderingfox
And that's what separates guilds that are scraping through content, and guilds that are pushing hard modes. Is it possible to raid without something like omen? Certainly. Is it easy to raid without something like omen? sure. Does it reduce the effectiveness of your tanks/dps when you're pushing enrage timers or dealing with add sensitive fights? Absolutely.
Omen is by no means required, but what you're disagreeing about is essentially saying that you don't mind if your DPS is slacking because the boss will die eventually. While that's certainly true, when you're wiping at 1% or your hard mode is hitting the enrage timer, that extra little raid damage can make all the difference in the world.
Tanks certainly aren't as pressured as they have been in the past, but that doesn't take threat completely out of the equation. There are also classes out there that are still threat limited (warlocks and mages w/ replenishment come to mind here), and having your rogues know when to tricks the tank rather than a DPS can add a substantial amount of raid dps simply by lifting the threat cap higher.
Post by
Porcell
The other good thing about Omen that makes it better than the build in threat notifications is that if you are using it you can see everyone's relative threat position, not just yourself. If you see that rogue crossing over 104% or 106%, maybe he didn't notice and you can call out on Vent for him to be careful, or for him to vanish. It's very useful for Paladins so they know who to BoSanctuary, or let hunters/rogues know that they should use their MDs (though they should be doing it already anyway).
I have Omen invaluable for every character I'm on, but most particularly my Tank and Warlock.
Post by
Vlet
Wanderingfox, I don't see your point. You can see your threat with or without Omen, and are going to have to back down if your threat gets too high either way. Omen isn't going to enable you to put out any more DPS. For non-tanks, Omen isn't doing anything but taking up screen real estate.
My guild has cleared up to Vezax, and during such progression, I have never seen anyone out-threat the tank anywhere other than within a few seconds of a pull.
Post by
4466
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Vlet
Using the Blizzard built in interface requires actively mousing over your target to see what your threat is.
No it does not. There is a little tab above your target that shows your percent threat. Perhaps you should rephrase your argument to: If you are using alternative unit frames for your target and have sound turned off, then you need Omen.
Post by
Wanderingfox
My point was that while the default threat meter shows YOUR threat, it doesn't show everyone's. Here's a very simple encounter that could get you killed if you relied on the blizzard threat meter: Patchwerk. What do you think happens if you out threat the off tank on Patch and you happen to have more current HP than him for a second (very possible due to the amount of damage the strikes do). Ya, that's right, you
DIE
, and it can happen at any point on the threat meter, and well below the 'danger' limit of pulling aggro.
What are you going to do in that situation? Do you hold back to make sure you live, or do you continue to push at your normal DPS and pray your OT is keeping up? An OT can eat two strikes, most DPS can't eat one. If the OT drops low on threat, it puts all of the melee in danger, but a simple misdirect, tricks, etc. will push him back up. How would you know to give the tank the threat boost without knowing his threat in relation to everyone else? Did you just guess? Or did you wait for a hateful to butcher one of your rogues?
Also, I'd hate to know what your reaction time is when staring at that little percent. Can you really tell at a glance if you're going to overtake the tank or not while you're dodging fire, maintaining your DPS cycle, and interrupting the boss? Omen is by far easier to read than a text number. It also gives you at a glance where you stand in the list, which is vital in deciding split second things like "is it safe to blow cooldowns, or will that put my past the tank" and "how much more time do I have until I need to dump threat"
Sure you can probably take a guess at when those times are using the Blizz meter, but I'm willing to bet it can be done much faster if the person was using omen.
Post by
Vlet
Did you just guess? Or did you wait for a hateful to butcher one of your rogues?
No, I stepped in the slime at the beginning of the fight and put out all the damage I wanted, like you're supposed to. Getting killed on Patch means you let your health rise too far, someone screwed up and healed you, your healers suck, or your silly MT positioned Patch too far from the slime.
Post by
Wanderingfox
Did you just guess? Or did you wait for a hateful to butcher one of your rogues?
No, I stepped in the slime at the beginning of the fight and put out all the damage I wanted, like you're supposed to. Getting killed on Patch means you let your health rise too far, someone screwed up and healed you, your healers suck, or your silly MT positioned Patch too far from the slime.
You put out more damage by not bothering. Getting slimed means moving, which means less dps. It's also almost impossible to only slime yourself once and be set for the whole fight due to AoE heals. I've never needed to get slimed and been able to push my full dps on patch from the second he engages. If you have to get slimed then something is wrong with your healers or your tanks, not your dps.
Of course you're free to do whatever the hell you want. You asked a question about why omen is still useful, and you got your answer. If you don't want to accept that answer, fine but don't start telling people what they're "supposed" to do. Doubly so when you don't even
have
the 3min patchwerk kill achievement.
Post by
4466
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zxian
Getting killed on Patch means you let your health rise too far
Barring the healers or tanks screwing up, dying means you weren't aware of your aggro in relation to the OTs. Continuously dipping to keep your health low is like putting a bandaid on cancer.
This.
I just finished a Naxx25 run tonight, and sadly, we had a fail DPS break the spores close enough to me (I was tanking) so I got the debuff - and then it happened again with 20 seconds left on the first debuff. I had a fairly solid threat lead, but this was only about 1/4 of the way through the fight. I had to keep telling the next three DPS to slow down in order to keep them from getting smacked in the face. Loud talking (read: shouting) over Vent at fail DPS should not be necessary - people should be able to manage their own threat.
Omen is a required addon the moment you start doing PvE of any kind IMO.
Post by
Codexx
There is no reason to not have Omen. Saying that the Blizzard UI works fine is just an excuse to be lazy. It's like saying you don't need BossMods anymore because newer bosses do emotes and clearer animations for certain abilities. Go ahead, join a raiding guild and when they ask why you are always pulling aggro, tell them you don't have Omen. Enjoy the Gkick and Raid Kick, and if they don't boot you out of Vent then you can listen to them make fun of you.
Blizzard never intended for their UI to replace Omen, they've simply provided extra functionality which Omen now utilizes for more accurate threat displays. The first thing I do when I create a new character or log into one after Wrath is go into the options menu and turn off the Blizzard threat system.
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