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Official Warlock Cataclysm Thread
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Post by
Micaiah
Is it just me ... or is Soul Fire going to become the nuke for destro? (Talents / spells as it is now). You can get the cast time of Soul Fire down to 2 seconds before haste (Bane / Emberstorm) ... and Soul Fire is really strong. If they don't tweak the damages or fix these talents, I get the feeling Soul Fire would become the default nuke, seeing as how incinerate doesn't give any benefits as opposed to Shadowbolt for demo (Impending Doom)
Demo may also use SF as a main nuke, but SF isn't mentioned in the Impending Doom talent that lowers the CD of meta ... I'm wondering if Blizzard has taken this into consideration and how they will tweak the trees / spells.
Of course, everything is subject to change, since it's beta and all.
Post by
asakawa
k, so i don't get cremation.
an AoE DoT refreshes a single target DoT.
if immolate didn't have a direct damage portion then i would say "great, we can refresh a DoT and get some extra damage for free!" but immolate has it's own DD portion and the new fel flame.
this is the model for UA plus fel flame and works really well for that, however fel flame also refreshes immolate so we'll have to work out which is the better spell for the refresh, immo or FF (i think we can assume fel flame but we'll see).
so demo has this other EXTRA thing that can refresh immo. it's unlikely to do more on a single target than FF though possibly more than immo's DD.
three things do the same job. one requires points in a tree that doesn't have spare?
so if you're DPSing a boss and a bunch of adds come in you can use HoG and refresh your boss immo while doing some AoE.
cool... but too situational to be useful. i'm definitely not spending points in a bloated tree for that.
are there any proper AoE uses for this talent? not really. if you're AoEing then you're not going to be putting immo on everything first... unless that is what they're intending this talent to lead people to do...
my guess is this will change. it could even get removed completely since the tree has plenty going on (it's the only tree that will lead you to put more than 31points in it).
Post by
289853
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Post by
asakawa
But of course, those are only bare speculations and I think the best way to do right now is to wait and see how things will work out.
yeah, i must admit this isn't the release of info i was hoping for. the more i think about the way things are laid out in the new trees the less things make sense. i'm inclined to just not give too much time to working things out until the next iteration.
Post by
DraconisAerius
Is it just me ... or is Soul Fire going to become the nuke for destro? (Talents / spells as it is now). You can get the cast time of Soul Fire down to 2 seconds before haste (Bane / Emberstorm) ... and Soul Fire is really strong. If they don't tweak the damages or fix these talents, I get the feeling Soul Fire would become the default nuke, seeing as how incinerate doesn't give any benefits as opposed to Shadowbolt for demo (Impending Doom)
Demo may also use SF as a main nuke, but SF isn't mentioned in the Impending Doom talent that lowers the CD of meta ... I'm wondering if Blizzard has taken this into consideration and how they will tweak the trees / spells.
Demo already uses Soul Fire as their burn phase nuke because of decimation, and it looks like that won't change. If Soul Fire stays similar to how it is now (that is to say, it requires a soul shard to cast) then for destro it's realy only going to be viable as a one shot at the start of the fight, before the target gets under 80% due to Imp. Soul Fire talent. Also Soul Fire for demo is really only viable (by the looks of the new tree) under 35%, just as it is today. The rest of the time Shadow Bolt and Demon Bolt are going to be our nukes, so I can realisticly see that cd reduction happening at least once per boss fight.
Mobile hellfire made me cackle maniacally in real life.
I had this image of finally being able to kill while moving in Culling like those pesky mages do. Mobile hellfire in my book = win :D
Do keep in mind that Immo Aura might go away in Cata, since they are reworking the meta abilities.
Agreed. One of the things I first thought, after getting past the god like awsomeness of demon form, was "Why is it fire damage? Wouldn't it suit more a shadow damage?" So maybe we might see a shadow damage aoe for demon form now. But given that we are gaining a brand spanking new aoe in the demo tree I doubt it.
Edit: I notice the tool tip for the new Demonic Pact talent says it does not work for enslaved demons, I wonder if for the purpose of this the Doomguard and Infernal will count as summoned or enslaved.
Post by
asakawa
ok so you're not keeping up mastorbaitor ^_^
soul shards are gone.
the UI is changing. everything that currently has a shard cost is having that cost removed. there will be three shards which can be used on a minute cooldown to empower certain spells we use.
without a shard implication we have a 6 second cast spell with the high tooltip damage and very high coefficient that comes along with that being cast at a standard 2 seconds. that is IMMENSE.
further to that demo has access to those spells so they can have a 2 second cast strong nuke that further decreases by 40% after 35%.
this, i am certain, is not the intended cast times for soul fire.
it looks like they intend destro to want to use it at the start of fights for a haste buff so that destro is the big opener spec while the other two have big finishers. i think they want us to be able to use a soul fire then (and possibly other times) without feeling like we just spent an age casting it so they put some cast time reduction in there.
if they want this without it just becoming the best nuke to use at all times then it will take some tinkering.
DG and infernal aren't enslaved, they're guardian demons - they are short duration damage cooldowns that won't dismiss your current pet.
also, demon bolt hasn't been mentioned for a long time now. i think it may be time to come to terms with that not happening.
edit: oh btw,
this is why mobile hellfire = win
(2:09)
Post by
DraconisAerius
I am aware of the new mechanic for shards. However I assumed that the spell *may* still cost a shard due to the tool tip on the decimation talent in the new trees still retaining the part about "Soul Fires cast under the effect of Decimation cost no shard". It would make sense in a way, to have a really big powerful nuke spell that you could only use a limited number of times in a fight.
I was looking at those numbers for Soul Fire cast times with the new trees as well and demo it would be faster than the current gcd is. Which I'm sure blizz do not want. It would be too op.
DG and infernal.... I did not know they were changing in that way but it does make sense. I assume by having a limited duration they will most likely have a shared (and long) cd to compensate for effectively having 2 pets. Perhaps equivilant to Abracadaver. I will say it's a shame. I love using the DG as my primary demon but with the current availible buffs from all 3 specs (in live this is) it's just not practical for a competitive fight.
Post by
281768
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Post by
Acabar
I am aware of the new mechanic for shards. However I assumed that the spell *may* still cost a shard due to the tool tip on the decimation talent in the new trees still retaining the part about "Soul Fires cast under the effect of Decimation cost no shard". It would make sense in a way, to have a really big powerful nuke spell that you could only use a limited number of times in a fight.
I was looking at those numbers for Soul Fire cast times with the new trees as well and demo it would be faster than the current gcd is. Which I'm sure blizz do not want. It would be too op.
DG and infernal.... I did not know they were changing in that way but it does make sense. I assume by having a limited duration they will most likely have a shared (and long) cd to compensate for effectively having 2 pets. Perhaps equivilant to Abracadaver. I will say it's a shame. I love using the DG as my primary demon but with the current availible buffs from all 3 specs (in live this is) it's just not practical for a competitive fight.
I think they were just lazy and didn't change the decimation tooltip.
Post by
DraconisAerius
Perhaps. But they changed the Demonic Pact tool tip so why not others.
Edit: Then again they didn't change the Nemisis tool tip so you could be on to something.
Post by
Micaiah
Impending Doom mentions Demon Bolt. I figure that it'll just be a trainer-learned spell that every spec could get. However, due to the felguard and the demo mastery, my guess is that only demo will want to keep it's debuff on the boss.
They changed the Demonic Pact tooltip because the effect has changed. Nemesis and Decimation are essentially the same still, which is my guess as to why the tooltip hasn't been updated. Also, Blizz could have better things to do atm =\
Post by
asakawa
aha! good catch on demon bolt in impending doom.
it's just that it's been conspicuously missing from all the NDA alpha leaks and not the
post-NDA beta information
whether it's in or not, demo's gonna have a ton of buttons! ^_^
Post by
498959
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Post by
asakawa
t'is weird yeah. it's actually something GC mentioned himself as a reason why they probably wouldn't use FG as the level 10 active ability.
it was a surprise to see it.
Post by
DraconisAerius
It just occured to me looking at that talent that refreshes immo via aoe that Nevermelting Ice Crystal would be fantastic for a build including that talent. Possibly even to the extent that it is for afflic. Would it also work with the new dot clipping mechanic the same way? Cause if it does I'd be tempted to keep it even at 85 unless there was one that offered the same bonus but better.
Post by
abulurd
I'm wondering if Immolate is going to be receiving a major buff, what with cremation refreshing it. I wonder if Blizzard intends us to be like shadowpriests in which one of our dots will be strong enough to throw up even when we're about to aoe.
Post by
asakawa
@mastor, there are LOTS of refresh mechanics in cata. below 25% drain soul refreshes corruption, UA and BoA.
also, all DoTs will work on the refresh mechanic when they are recast. this is slightly different but still a refresh.
either way the current refresh mechanic is broken. it's a horrible loophole that leads to some counter-intuitive and frustrating gameplay. with refreshing being rolled out throughout the game my guess is that they're taking the opportunity of the expansion to perfect the system.
i don't think you'll be seeing that current refresh mechanic that makes the poor 232 trinket so good in cataclysm... i'd certainly be very disappointed to see it there.
@abulurd, i'm sure that immo could never get that strong for demo. destro perhaps but demo doesn't have enough to support it(?).
there is something odd about cremation though. i think we're missing a piece of the puzzle and hopefully the next iteration will make it a bit clearer what blizz intends us to do with it.
Post by
610875
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Ksero
I don't want to trawl through 7 pages to see if this has been mentioned, but....
no Pandemic
sucks.
pandemic is unneeded because all dots an now crit.
Post by
356172
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