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Maybe Bliz needs to revisit some of their booleans...
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Post by
RedwoodElf
Checked out the flying macros for the first tie in Northrend today, and noticed that flyable still evaluates as true there, even if you don't have Cold Weather Flying yet. That seems broken. maybe they need to fix that.
Also, there are a few obvious booleans they should add, like:
eating (is the character eating)
drinking (is the character drinking)
usesmana (does it use mana (as opposed to rage/Energy/Runic power))
usesrage (See usesmana)
usesenergy (See usesmana)
usesrunicpower (See usesmana)
falling (as opposed to flying: the character is in the air with no means of support)
Any more that anyoe sees as obvious boolean holes?
Post by
pelf
flyable is broken, no doubt. The fact that an addon category has grown up around it is testament to that.
For eating, are you thinking...
/use Biscuits
?
Falling, though ... not sure what you'd do with that. Also, what do you want power type for? That might get a bit too automate-y:
/cast Mana Burn; Mind blast
Post by
RedwoodElf
Mainly for saving taskbar space on things like Warlocks, who have different channeled drain abilities (Mana, Soul, Health, healpet channel) as well as a plethora of other abilities they have to use (6 DOTs, Curses, shadowbolt, fears, etc) In combat I'm clicking like a madman on my warlock. By the time I get around to channelling, I'd just like to get mana drain off my toolbar if the target's not a caster. Of course I could always use but that won't work on paladins or other 'all instants' casters...
Post by
Wanderingfox
Mainly for saving taskbar space on things like Warlocks, who have different channeled drain abilities (Mana, Soul, Health, healpet channel) as well as a plethora of other abilities they have to use (6 DOTs, Curses, shadowbolt, fears, etc) In combat I'm clicking like a madman on my warlock. By the time I get around to channelling, I'd just like to get mana drain off my toolbar if the target's not a caster. Of course I could always use but that won't work on paladins or other 'all instants' casters...
That's automation, and just won't happen. You can however do something like what I did for my warlock and replace your drain life with "/cast Drain Mana; Drain Life"
As for the others... eating was suggested way back when and turned down, and falling really doesn't have many uses outside of an automated 'oh crap' button, which also would probably be considered automation >_<
Post by
RedwoodElf
Mainly for saving taskbar space on things like Warlocks, who have different channeled drain abilities (Mana, Soul, Health, healpet channel) as well as a plethora of other abilities they have to use (6 DOTs, Curses, shadowbolt, fears, etc) In combat I'm clicking like a madman on my warlock. By the time I get around to channelling, I'd just like to get mana drain off my toolbar if the target's not a caster. Of course I could always use but that won't work on paladins or other 'all instants' casters...
That's automation, and just won't happen. You can however do something like what I did for my warlock and replace your drain life with "/cast Drain Mana; Drain Life"
As for the others... eating was suggested way back when and turned down, and falling really doesn't have many uses outside of an automated 'oh crap' button, which also would probably be considered automation >_<
The key with my drain mana already has functions for , and
as do almost all the buttons my actionbar.
STILL running out of actionbar slots.
Post by
Wanderingfox
Stop playing affliction then XD
Post by
Ocmer
would be awesome, tried that boolean the other day
to let myself cast Levitate on myself while falling (after dismounting flying)
Post by
Wanderingfox
would be awesome, tried that boolean the other day
to let myself cast Levitate on myself while falling (after dismounting flying)
It would be, but it can be abused. What's to stop someone from making every single one of their spells read:
/cast Levitate; NormalSpell
If that was done then they'd instantly be able to react to being dismounted / falling off a cliff / etc. without even having to think about it.
Post by
cawfee
Give Bartender a try, it assigns the switchable "Main" action bar to separate ones that you can all have onscreen at the same time. Helped me tremendously.
Also, the way I play Aff. is Shadowbolt to Mouse3 (wheel button), F to Drain Life, F+ Shift to Drain Soul, E to Siphon Life, E + Shift to Haunt and the dots on 1-4. Instant space saver.
Post by
Wildhorn
Checked out the flying macros for the first tie in Northrend today, and noticed that flyable still evaluates as true there, even if you don't have Cold Weather Flying yet. That seems broken. maybe they need to fix that.
Thats not broken. It doesnt check if you are able to fly, it evalute if it is flyable.
Also, there are a few obvious booleans they should add, like:
eating (is the character eating)
drinking (is the character drinking)
usesmana (does it use mana (as opposed to rage/Energy/Runic power))
usesrage (See usesmana)
usesenergy (See usesmana)
usesrunicpower (See usesmana)
falling (as opposed to flying: the character is in the air with no means of support)
Any more that anyoe sees as obvious boolean holes?
WTF these would be used for?
Post by
RedwoodElf
Checked out the flying macros for the first tie in Northrend today, and noticed that flyable still evaluates as true there, even if you don't have Cold Weather Flying yet. That seems broken. maybe they need to fix that.
Thats not broken. It doesnt check if you are able to fly, it evalute if it is flyable
If you don't have Cold Weather Flying, you're NOT flyable in Northrend. If you're in Northrend and don't have Cold Weather Flying, it is NOT flyable.
Also, there are a few obvious booleans they should add, like:
eating (is the character eating)
drinking (is the character drinking)
usesmana (does it use mana (as opposed to rage/Energy/Runic power))
usesrage (See usesmana)
usesenergy (See usesmana)
usesrunicpower (See usesmana)
falling (as opposed to flying: the character is in the air with no means of support)
Any more that anyoe sees as obvious boolean holes?
WTF these would be used for?
You really can't think of any use for them?
Think it might be a good idea to, say, not use something else if you're eating, to keep from wasting the food? Just a few posts ago, someone was asking if he could eat Conjured Mana Struedel, and, if he didn't have any, use Honeymint Tea instead, without using both...like so:
/use Conjured Mana Struedel
/use Honeymint Tea
Since HMT is a beverage, and CMS is food, you can do both at once, but he doesn't want to waste the tea on mana regen, if he has mana regen from the Struedel already.
Use your imagination.
And I don't see this as any more "automation" than the Flyable boolean in outland being used to pick a flying mount as opposed to a ground one. It's not clicking for you, after all. Or being used to completely change the function of all your macros from crafting/gathering commands to fighting ones.
How is THAT not "automation", if picking Faerie Fire if your target is an energy user is so incredibly game breaking?
Post by
Wanderingfox
How is THAT not "automation", if picking Faerie Fire if your target is an energy user is so incredibly game breaking?
Because the other examples you gave are not making logic decisions that effect combat situations, while your last example does. The game can NOT play for you. Simple as that. Having a macro change based on the type of person you're attacking is automation, and not in the sense of reducing the complexity of something (like eating one specific food over another one, which can be done via
addon
btw). The changing based on class type is a logic decision that you want to occur during combat, which is a big no-no when it comes to wow's API.
Post by
RedwoodElf
How is THAT not "automation", if picking Faerie Fire if your target is an energy user is so incredibly game breaking?
Because the other examples you gave are not making logic decisions that effect combat situations, while your last example does. The game can NOT play for you. Simple as that. Having a macro change based on the type of person you're attacking is automation, and not in the sense of reducing the complexity of something (like eating one specific food over another one, which can be done via
addon
btw). The changing based on class type is a logic decision that you want to occur during combat, which is a big no-no when it comes to wow's API.
Oh? you mean like the OTHER logical decisions macros can make in combat based on your target, like ? Those all allow you to change what spells go off based on what you're targetting, yet you don't see that as what you call "automation?"
Post by
Sweetscot
Those don't touch as closely to automation because they are very generalized. Exists really only stops you getting errors if you lose a target (you try to cast a harmful spell and get an error as your target dropped and it attempts to cast it on yourself or on no target at all)
help and harm really only function to allow you to make space saving macros. you can't make a healing spell heal an enemy no matter what you do and you can't make one such as /tar to target any enemy. They don't think for you they just set parameters, having something such as /cast means you have a macro that specifically acts differently toward a different enemy type...by the same token you cant make a macro such as /cast spell; other spell to behave differently against different mob types as this means the macro is doing your thinking for you.
What I would like to see in macros is #useicon spellname...I HATE digging through the macro icon list trying to find one that I want if it's for a macro that the ? isnt appropriate for. Either that or the ability to drag a spell icon into the macro menu icon frame and have it take that picture. It's a silly little thing to want but I do. I'd also like to see fixed to work correctly with dalaran/wintersgrasp, I'm not holding my breath though.
Post by
RedwoodElf
I don't think you realise what the word "automation" means..."automation" would imply no user input (I.E. the player is AFK and his character acts on it's own, like using Game Commander or some other programmable key-spammer program to do keystrokes for them) A target-sensitive interface isn't automation, it's context-sensitive controls - which already exist in the form of and so on.
/focus
/castsequence <offensive spell>,<offensive spell>,<offensive spell>,<offensive spell>
/castsequence <Buff or heal>,<Buff or heal>,<Buff or heal>,<Buff or heal>
Gee, that does an awful lot of "Thinking for you" doesn't it? far more than what YOU seem to think is IMBA - Checks your target, your targets' target, and your targets'targets'target looking for attackable targets to use an offensive spell from a list on, otherwise casts a buff from a list on your target, and if you don't have a target, on yourself.
And you wouldn't NEED /tar , since the tab button does that for you already, offensive abilities autotarget a foe if you have no target for the next keypress, and you autotarget anything that attacks you when you have no target in any case.
Post by
Wanderingfox
Automation: the condition of being automatically operated or controlled; "automation increases productivity"
You're 'automatically' controlling the addon via conditionals. You, yourself, are not consciously making the logic decision, the game client is, and thus that would be automation :P
The difference between something like and what you're suggestion is rather simple. is simply controlling WHERE a spell is cast, controls WHEN it's cast. That is to say that is simply removing possible errors by preventing a spell from casting when the target isn't a specific hostility.
/cast Flash Heal; Smite and /cast Flash Heal; Smite are exactly the same but the first one won't generate an error if you're targeting an enemy.
The SAME functionality can be gotten like so using the old macro system:
/cast Flash Heal
/cast Smite
It would throw a ton of errors and warnings, and is very messy to look at, but it's the same exact functionality as /cast Flash Heal; Smite
You can't do that with falling without resorting to scripting.
Post by
RedwoodElf
Just one thing... doesn't press any buttons for you, so it's not automation. If you're hovering on your flying mount while AFK and get stunned/dismounted, it won't automatically (They key root of "automation") use the ability...you MUST actiavate the macro manually.
versus ALSO controls "when a spell is cast" under your context. If we follow your arguments to their logical conclusion, Blizzard should remove all booleans except for types and force players to design their macros so that they have to use those to pick whether they're casting heals/buffs or attacks, manually making the decision and checking their targets themselves and whether or not they're in combat or whatever.
Right?
Post by
Wanderingfox
Just one thing... doesn't press any buttons for you, so it's not automation. If you're hovering on your flying mount while AFK and get stunned/dismounted, it won't automatically (They key root of "automation") use the ability...you MUST actiavate the macro manually.
versus ALSO controls "when a spell is cast" under your context. If we follow your arguments to their logical conclusion, Blizzard should remove all booleans except for types and force players to design their macros so that they have to use those to pick whether they're casting heals/buffs or attacks, manually making the decision and checking their targets themselves and whether or not they're in combat or whatever.
Right?
Wrong. Failing is basically this (pseudo code):
If PlayerIsFalling Then Cast Spell Else Cast DifferentSpell
This is the ONLY way you can make that conditoinal work.
Both help AND harm can be written in the same way as above, but they the can also be written like this:
Cast HelpSpell
Cast HarmSpell
They don't NEED the if statement. The first one will simply error, and the second spell will then try and cast. You can't do that with falling. Also, once again, help/harm/etc. are simply adjusting the TARGET of something, they're not deciding to cast the spell or not based on an event in the game world.
edit: I never said you didn't have to click the macro, I'm using the definition of automation in my previous post, ie. to decide/do something for you. In context, this is the logic decision that is being made 'for you' automatically.
Post by
RedwoodElf
Except, however, that I have had a number of people say, very recently in fact, that
/cast Attackspell
/cast Defensespell
won't work, even if fireball is on cooldown, because, as they insist (I still don't believe it, but they claim it's so) even trying to cast the first spell triggers global cooldown, even if it's already on it's own cooldown.
O course I think they're full of it, but let's say the thing you wanted to use if you were falling was your parachute cloak...you still have to click. And you have to click/type on the RIGHT macro (putting "/cast Parachute cloak" in every single one of your macros would be Kludgy beyond belief, and would prevent you from doing other things that you might also want to do while falling (like cast instants on someone as you fall past them, for example)
Think of it this way, even if you HAD a boolean like or , you still have to put thought in how you actually construct the macro or you will get undesirable results...and that's where the players' Logical skills are in play.
Nothing is free...there are always tradeoffs.
Let's look at shall we? A very common boolean, used to decide whether you're using, say, a Travel Form or Aquatic form shapeshift, or an elixir of swimming speed or running speed. Yet that's not "automation?"
(Perhaps in stead of "automation" we should use the phrase "Decision making", which is what you appear to be using it for)
Post by
Wanderingfox
Again... not really. Everyone of my macros would simply have Parachute Cloak; tacked at the front of the cast that's already in the macro.
You have a very small argument in regards to , but again you CAN NOT USE the spells that you would use with that conditional if you're not swimming.
Once again...
/cast Aquatic form
is the same exact thing as...
/cast Aquatic form
but without the error.
/cast Parachute Cloak
is NOT the same as
/cast Parachute Cloak
Lastly, GO LOOK UP AUTOMATION. I've already posted the definition here, so I'm not going to do it again. I am using the word properly. What you're arguing over is the DEGREE of automation. Any decision that is not made consciously by the user can be considered 'automatic'
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