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10.2.7
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10.2.6
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Improved Slam
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Post by
LordExplode
Well my arms warrior is reaching 80 soon, just hit 77 today. Im not specd into improved slam cause I thought since slam has a cast time and stops my attack its not worth it. My dps is fine from what ive seen, I ran normal HoS and pulled 2.1, But ive seen most arms warrior at 80 specd into slam. Ive read its a rage dump which I get cause spaming it tech gives ya a .5 attack speed but Im just not convinced heh. I dont have a problem burning rage with sudden death procing, MS, HS/cleave and so forth.
But the question is why slam with arms?
Post by
Escutcheon
Slam used to reset your swing timer, however now it just pauses for the duration of the cast time. Basically taking weapon damage + xx on a .5 second speed, which also causes a fraction (if any) of the threat of heroic strike, makes it a pretty good pve talent.
Post by
213330
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138583
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326144
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Post by
skumbananer
HS is a good skill to use as arms when you emergency offtank stuff in def stance (such as adds or portal guys in os10), youll have more rage than you can handle, and you cant use either overpower or execute. Besides that i dont know when to use it.
Post by
marklartank
What I'm trying to say here is that you can use both, the only limiting factor is rage.
You cant use both unless you dont use slam properly. The whole idea of dumping rage is the fact you dont need GCD because you have nothing else to use (MS is on cd, Op & SD hasnt procced), if you do you just use it followed by Slam.
you can use both, you just need very good gear to allow it. brutaalis actually explained it pretty well; one is GCD, one is next attack - they don't compete in that sense.
your example is correct at 45 rage - you would not use HS when sitting at 45 rage. HOWEVER, when you are sitting at 100 rage and GCD's are not coming fast enough to dump it, then you do use HS as arms. and it should only be costing you 12 rage, not 15.
my arms gear is not nearly as good as brut's, but i still find times that i can use HS safely. it's not just for facerollers, it's also for people that know how to use it.
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213330
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58442
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138583
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Post by
marklartank
Arms warriors do not use Heroic Strike because, due to HS's mechanics, it ends up costing a warrior 70+ rage for abysmal returns.
I don't care if you are sitting at 500 rage. Spending 60-70 rage for 495 extra damage is awful combat strategy.
so if you have enough rage to use HS and never miss a special, you would not use it? that just doesn't make sense to me. if i can't burn my rage fast enough, i'm getting zero extra damage from it, so why is zero > 495 (which can crit)?
out of curiosity, how do you come up with 70+ rage for one HS? 12 for the attack, plus whatever you miss from that white swing, unless i'm missing something?
that would mean you are saying you get 58+ rage from every white hit... to get that much rage from a non-crit, your white hit would need to be 6270.
Post by
138583
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Post by
marklartank
um, miss a special doesn't mean miss the attack, it means not be able to use the special because you don't have enough rage. as in miss being able to use the attack...
i need to read? stickfa did not say UP TO 70 rage, he said 70+.
i don't think anyone ever said HS was a spammable ability. but there are times that it can be used. test dummies are fun and all, but some fights you actually have to move (you do raid, right?) tell me how you use slam while running?
it's not used much, but not much is not the same as never.
Post by
138583
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Post by
Kurasmaniac
i need to read? stickfa did not say UP TO 70 rage, he said 70+.
i don't think anyone ever said HS was a spammable ability. but there are times that it can be used. test dummies are fun and all, but some fights you actually have to move (you do raid, right?) tell me how you use slam while running?
it's not used much, but not much is not the same as never.
truly, but in general id avoid using HS.
the guy that said 70 rage for a usage explained himself very poorly and its a shame cuz he was on the right track. basically because when you use HS it consumes a melee swing, and as arms one melee swing can generate ~50ish rage. add on top of that the rage cost for a heroic strike and you can start to see how much potential rage you lost out on.
lets assume you get a back-to-back SD proc or something that consumes alot of rage, and you dont have it because you threw in that extra HS..... doesnt seem worth it to me :)
NOW i am not saying dont use it at all, that would be generally ignorant (yes zakk that was pointed at you) but blizz made it so that your moves are supplemented by consistent melee strikes to keep your rage up. if you have 100+ rage consistently, go improved mortal for a lower CD and your rage should be just fine
thanks for your time
Post by
marklartank
sorry to derail this thread, but you posted some misinformation early on.
Heroic strike is most pathethic type of rage dump ever invented
Seriously dont use HS in Arms, its for lazy kids and facerollers. It sure dumps whole lot of rage (for no damage)
Advertising HS and not saying directly its only about 1-2 uses within boss fight you are contributing to fail arms.
1-2 uses is not right. but don't take my word for it; let's check the logs of some very high dps arms warriors and see. perhaps you should contact the warriors listed below and tell them that the numbers you wrote down on your piece of paper say they are doing it wrong. then you can show them logs of your own fight with higher dps... you do have logs to show, right?
yogg-saron -
7600dps
- 30 HS, 14 slams.
thorim -
8700 dps
- 17 HS, 47 slams.
algalon -
6800 dps
- 18 HS, 36 slams.
vezax -
6000 dps
- 9 HS, 76 slams (this fight is as close to a test dummy as it gets, with very little movement required.
hodir -
11k dps
- 31 HS, 12 slams.
as you can see, it's fight dependent, largely based on how much movement is required. you can do all the "arrogant failcrafting" you like, but try testing it out instead; we don't raid test dummies. try standing still and casting slam on yogg or hodir and see what happens.
not so long ago, theorycrafters proved that yogg + 0 was completely impossible, based on advanced maths and such. then guilds started doing it....
Post by
138583
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Post by
marklartank
Nice nice. All those fights are the fights i mentioned - taking heavy terrain damage (check the damage taken tab's instead of dps charts).
Can you count how much dps he gained by using those?
Imagine how much dps he would have if he actually used Slam more.
0.5s with Haste isnt an eternity you know. For some warriors is.
i give up.
every fight show the same trend, not just those. but i guess you know better... if only those warriors read your post.
Post by
265025
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