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How 2h frost dps stacks against the rest
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Post by
Geobuster
I've been doing blood nearly all game, for soloing and questing. It works quite well, and with hs cleaves I leveled quite fast. I always found myself at the low totem when dpsing in groups, but I never had a problem destroying allies in pvp.
Anyways, About a week ago I hit 80. Its my first 80! Woot grats me. So I'm not super into late game stuff, knowledge wise. Im big on theory-crafting and builds, but was never high enough to experience them.
My highest previously was a tauren panzerkin back in vanilla wow. When they nerfed barkskin I stopped playing him. So 20 levels make up is a lot. A lot of things changed.
Anyways, back on topic.
Like I said I was all blood, like 53/0/18
I started actually following my dps on recount and meters and what not, now that I'm doing heroics.
Look to increase my dps, I changed to unholy. 17/0/54. I did not do as much damage. Realize however, my current experience with unholy is with the terrible scourge strike right now. I was expecting more from it. Its pretty horrible.
So I changed to 2h frost. Just to check. I thought obliterate was frost only so I never used it. Boy what I've been missing.
So i've got a frost 17/51/3 build
and a blood 53/0/18 build
I have terrible hear, only 3 purples, and still the amphitheater of anguish axe, but i find myself doing an average of 1.8k dps blood and 1.8k dps frost.
Blood rotation? IT, PS, HS, HS, OB I use blood presence, and I pop hysteria and my ghoul and dancing rune weapon for bosses, giving me a significant boost. Talented with coils, so I pop tons, and get them about every 5 strikes free, nice damage.
Frost rotation? HB, BS, OB => BS OB OB I use unholy presence, and pop the free HB all the time, popping one in the rotation if i Absolutely must. FS in there a lot when possible.
While blood has a lot more happening, I literally crit 70% on all abilities with frost, so while I don't do as much, I hit hard. Regularly 4k HB crits (usually free i might add) 4k Ob and 3k FS. I attack at 2.20 speed with a 3.50 weapon, so I'm getting much more white hits too. Over the course of a boss battle this adds up.
So, so far, the dps is pretty even, in both specs. Now, If i did blood presence in frost, I'm not sure if it would be worth it for all the extra white hits im getting, but sometimes we down bosses in a minute, so I think it might be worth it for larger crits.
In addition, I like 2h frost cuz very few people do it, its a lil different, and I like not being cookie cutter.
I realize dw frost is the dps set, but i dislike dw. You need to waste space on hit rating and you still have that set value miss chance with your offhand. I don't think threat of thassarian is as good as people make it out to be.
Thats just a small road map, here is my question/ideas.
Blood is pretty much where it is. Frost will improve. While the added damage is greater at the moment on hs, the thing that matters is the weapon damage. My OB is 100% while HS is 72%. Since the secondary numbers wont change, eventually the higher my weapon damage is, the more OB will start out damaging HS, right? The reason its equal now is because HS has more added damage. That wont change, my weapon damage will, and 100% will outdo 70%.
So, the better I get geared, the more I will see frost out damaging blood. I've read about 10-12k ob crits. Seeing as how my crit chance with ob is so massively high, this really adds up.
I hear alot of people say its fail, but its usually just that. People who dislike 2h frost simply come in and say
"Tats fail, blod much beter mad haxs."
While people arguing that 2h frost is viable leaves great responses with great math and or theory-crafting to back it up. I even parsed my training dummy fights for 3 mins, no-stop fights with my rotations, and frost outdid blood.
Thoughts? Concerns? Something I could be missing?
Post by
Izzydark
I'm not going to be the typical *!@#$%^ about this, but your DPS is lower than it should be because your rotations are wrong.
When you use Obliterate as blood, you are:
A. Consuming your diseases, thus decreasing DoT damage; not to mention that some of your abilities scale with the number of diseases on the target
B. Forcing yourself to re-apply diseases which you should seldom do. Pick up Glyph of Pestilence and use it to re-apply your diseases instead of wasting runes.
As blood, you should be specced so that death strike gives you Death Runes.
Therefore, instead of having to re-apply your diseases, you can use pestilence to keep them up.
Your rotation could be something like:
IT, PS, HS, HS, BS, then a couple of death coils until your runes are up, then keep using heart and death strike while keeping your diseases on the target. Obliterate has no place in a viable blood rotation.
But do what you want, you're paying for it. There's nothing wrong with not being cookie-cutter, but try to maximize your DPS.
Post by
Geobuster
oh, I never use pestilence. I'm open to disscussion its perfectly fine.
I thought ob would be good cuz I will be reapplying IT and PS at teh beginning of the rotation anyways?
So I should be using pestilence always, only Ps and IT to start, and then more death strikes?
so IT PS HS HS DS = HS HS DS DS = Pestilence = HS HS DS DS ?
I'll still play how I want, but yes, the reason I posted was for disscussion ,and anything that increases the dps works.
I always kinda left pestilence to the side, just like I did OB lvl 55-79.
Post by
379675
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Badguy
While heart strike is at ~70% weapon damage compared to obliterate being at 100%, OB costs twice as many runes.
So when you're sitting with 4 death runes, you can use 6 heart strikes vs. only 3 obliterates.
Post by
freakeystyley34
I have heard that for frost dw, the rest of your points are better placed in unholy rather than blood. Not got the numbers to justify, just what I've read.
The rotation for blood is simple as has been said:
- keep diseases up
- make death runes
- Use heart strike lots
- use CD's
for frost dw, the best rotation/priority list I have seen is similar, but you are creating death runes for your OB rather than HS. So:
IT, PS, OB, BS, BS (blood strike turns your 2 blood runes into death runes), RP dump
OB, OB, OB, RP dump.
you need to factor into this your Rime and Killing machine procs. From what I heard, if Rime procs, wait for killing machine, then use HB, if KM procs, use FS. If diseases are ticking, a Rime & KM proc is your highest priority.
What I have also read is that for long fights (>1m) blood presence wins, for trash unholy wins.
I think DW frost is a lot of fun, my recently 80 DK is frost and pulling nearly 2k dps with shocking gear (worse than yours probably!).
Post by
Gorilla
I am not seeing you putting up diseases in your frost rotation, if you not then your missing out on to much damage, most of the frost attacks . Your frost rotation should be IT, PS, OB, BS, BS. Not sure about 2H frost since I dropped that when the last patch came out but DW is very good DPS wise (that's my DPS spec). I feel like you miss out if you try and 2H with frost but I'll defer to those that can speak to it.
You don't link your specs so I don't know what your putting points into for Blood (or Frost) but for DW frost you would go down the unholy tree for better DPS. Also you should link your armory to allow people to help you out more.
Post by
211100
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Eleazer
2h frost is fine while leveling, but right around raiding time it begins to lose it's ability to keep up with the other builds. Finally 2h frost is the worst build to use unholy in.
Post by
KikiTheMan
frost 2h suxxorz ass.
just because you cant play blood with a normal spec and rotation that does not mean that you sir have discovered a spec and rotation that makes 2h frost even a little bit viable. its dead . its been dead since 3.2 hit .get over it .
Post by
378676
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
KikiTheMan
i wasn't talking about lvling . i was talking about pve and dps . and blood is not suxxorz.
and it used to be kickass i know . used it and did respectable dps in naxx25 gear w/o the sigil.
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