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Holy/ret hybrid healing, seeking help
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Post by
OxygenE
Currently, my main spec is the generic 51/2/18 for PvE, but I would like to offspec as a holy/ret hybrid healer with both PvP and PvE utility. So far, I have
this
, and I would like further input from the professionals on my spec. Any support is very welcome. Thank you for your help.
Post by
Rydiak
Unfortunately, you will be useless with a spec like that. You lack most of the Holy utilities, and lack ALL of the Retribution attacks. Go either Holy or either Retribution. Outside of soloing, you will be dragging your group behind.
Post by
Magnerz
Looks good to me, maybe consider putting 2 points from holy into Unyeilding Faith and (maybe) picking up Aura mastery. Not sure where the best place to take those points would be from though, Divine intellect perhaps? - best ask an arena paladin for more input on this :)
Edit: This is a PvP
'only'
spec, it flourishes in arena's especially where the added CC, stun breaker, mana returns from JotW and the occasional spot of burst damage, makes it ideal.
You will seriosuly hamper your group if you intend to pve with this spec. You may pull reasonable DPS figures in somewhere like CoS, OK, UP and AN or maybe Naxx where there is an abundance of UD mobs but outside these places you will really struggle for competitive DPS, by all means go for it if you can sustain competitive minimums but if not don't expect to have a place over a "real" dps, equally a "real" healer will get a place over you, you'll struggle for groups most of the time. - But i would like to know what kind of sustained DPS this build can put out single-target on a boss like Patch where conditions are pretty much optimal (him being UD and all....)
Post by
svirve
Unfortunately, you will be useless with a spec like that. You lack most of the Holy utilities, and lack ALL of the Retribution attacks. Go either Holy or either Retribution. Outside of soloing, you will be dragging your group behind.
Ever heard of a place called the arena?
The spec looks good. If you want it to be more PvE put points in lights grace. If you want it to be more PvP put points in Fanaticism.
It's gonna be alot harder healing PvE with that than a normal specc. And you lose alot of the survivability from having a real Holy/Ret hybrid PvP build.
If i were you i'd buy dual specc and go
Holy/Ret hybrid
and your normal PvE specc.
Post by
OxygenE
@ Rydiak: I'm sorry if I am misunderstanding you, but I can't be sure if you read the part about my main spec being a "normal" healing build. This is an idea for an offspec. Also, plenty of Repentance builds were, and still might be, out there.
@ Magnerz: I have 4 points left unspent at the moment, by the way. Thank you for the support, by the way.
Looks like I will need some more input, though.
-Edit- I guess I wasn't clear enough. I have dual spec.
Post by
Magnerz
Can you give us a bit of clarity here please OxygenE, seems some people (including myself) may have misunderstood the intention of your original post.
What role are you trying to fulfill and in which settings with this build?
- PvE Healing
- PvE DPS
- PvP
Edit: spelling
Post by
OxygenE
All right. With the new spec, my priorities are PvP > PvE > Solo.
Post by
Rydiak
Unfortunately, you will be useless with a spec like that. You lack most of the Holy utilities, and lack ALL of the Retribution attacks. Go either Holy or either Retribution. Outside of soloing, you will be dragging your group behind.
Ever heard of a place called the arena?
The spec looks good. If you want it to be more PvE put points in lights grace. If you want it to be more PvP put points in Fanaticism.
It's gonna be alot harder healing PvE with that than a normal specc. And you lose alot of the survivability from having a real Holy/Ret hybrid PvP build.
If i were you i'd buy dual specc and go
Holy/Ret hybrid
and your normal PvE specc.
Oh please, please use that spec in arena versus me. I'd LOVE the free win. "Hybrid" Ret/Holy specs effectively died with Classic. Don't fool yourself in thinking otherwise, or you'd just be giving HKs to opposing players.
Post by
svirve
Oh please, please use that spec in arena versus me. I'd LOVE the free win. "Hybrid" Ret/Holy specs effectively died with Classic. Don't fool yourself in thinking otherwise, or you'd just be giving HKs to opposing players.
Yea i know it died that's why 90% of the teams above 2k rating had a holy/ret hybrid paladin during S5.
And if the top teams dont have a holy/ret hybrid paly now in S6 they have a disc priest.
Wait.. died means it handed you your ass right?
---
All right. With the new spec, my priorities are PvP > PvE > Solo.
Go with the build i linked earlier then.
And since you have dual specc just switch to your normal build when you're gonna go do an instance.
Post by
OxygenE
Thanks, svirve. I will probably go with that. It would be great to have someone vouch for your build, though.
Post by
Magnerz
Unfortunately, you will be useless with a spec like that. You lack most of the Holy utilities, and lack ALL of the Retribution attacks. Go either Holy or either Retribution. Outside of soloing, you will be dragging your group behind.
Ever heard of a place called the arena?
The spec looks good. If you want it to be more PvE put points in lights grace. If you want it to be more PvP put points in Fanaticism.
It's gonna be alot harder healing PvE with that than a normal specc. And you lose alot of the survivability from having a real Holy/Ret hybrid PvP build.
If i were you i'd buy dual specc and go
Holy/Ret hybrid
and your normal PvE specc.
Oh please, please use that spec in arena versus me. I'd LOVE the free win. "Hybrid" Ret/Holy specs effectively died with Classic. Don't fool yourself in thinking otherwise, or you'd just be giving HKs to opposing players.
I hope that is a joke, it IS a viable spec for arena's. And who on earth played this classic, its a "variation" on the shcokadin build of TBC if anything.
Anyway back on subject, if your planning to PvP with this spec you can't really PvE well with it at all, too many points would be "watsed" on pvp orientated talents. A PvP spec will change depending on how offensivly you plan to play and if you have a specific combo in mind though the one posted by svirve seems solid.
Whereas a PvE DPS build (though i'm still not sure if this is actually viable) would look like this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sVAzxb0swzZZVfbxbIzudI
Speaking of which does anyone have the cash to splash/gear/time/math skills to shoot it right out the sky to test the PvE dps build and suggest glyphs for it; I'd do it myself but no acess to wow atm.
I'd expect Judge, Exo and HolyShock/SoR/SoV/Consecrate (not sure on last slot)
Post by
svirve
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Hyjal&n=Ehkzz
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Archimonde&n=Farzhar
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Kel%27Thuzad&cn=Walk%C3%A5&gn=spooks
Some of the better PvPers in both europe and US.
Points differs here and there but it's mostly personal preference that differs.
Post by
Magnerz
Holy/Ret hybrids have a bit of room for variation past the definte points they
need
to be sucessful, lots depends on your combo, playstyle and personal preference, look at the ones Svrive posted up and you should get some ideas going.
Post by
svirve
Speaking of which does anyone have the cash to splash/gear/time/math skills to shoot it right out the sky to test the PvE dps build and suggest glyphs for it; I'd do it myself but no acess to wow atm.
I'd expect Judge, Exo and HolyShock/SoR/SoV/Consecrate (not sure on last slot)
HS is a given last glyph imo. 16% more of your highest damaging spell is a big yes ;p.
I would test it but i dont have any insane SP gear atm.
It would pretty much require a gear set itemized solely for SP & Crit.
Int is of no use because of JotW.
P.S. You might wanna consider SoComm since it'll be the meanest hitting judge.
Post by
Magnerz
How would you factor spell hit into this mix? i beleive the mechanics changed to that whilst holy spells can still not be restsied, they can still miss, would you have to run with a SP perhaps?
Would you go with a 2Hander then? i presumed sword and board as they actually have the "caster" type stats you'd be after, SoComm with a one hander doesn't seem like it would hit harder than SoR either, especially considering SotP (and the 10% dmg glyph), which brings up would SoR be better than SoV, tanks use SoV as its better TPS (through DPS) so i imagine the same can be said of this freaky weird "Shockadin" style creature
Post by
svirve
How would you factor spell hit into this mix? i beleive the mechanics changed to that whilst holy spells can still not be restsied, they can still miss, would you have to run with a SP perhaps?
Had to log on my paladin again since i cant recollect ever seeing a HS miss.
If HS cant miss it would change alot. Otherwise i'd say going for some hit is a must.
Be back with results in 60 Holy shocks (aka 5 minutes) ;p
Edit:
I'd go with a 1h and offhand item.
The shockadin build would be more of a caster so i'd say having mean judgements would be better than having mean seal procs.
Im not sure as to what would scale best with SP and how big the difference would be. Too tired to do math atm as well. If i try i'll just say something very wrong.
As for now im just gonna spam HS on a dummy ^^
Post by
Magnerz
Well i've no idea where the maths for those kind of things would even start w/o actual testing, especially considering the stuff about Miss and so on, i know for a fact that Cons and Exo can miss, but i'd expect that judegements cant as they count as a melee abilty as opposed to a spell (ret pallies only stack up to 8% but have still found to miss attacks on Exo(+Cons?).
Oh and i bet all the caster dps would go absolutely nuts if this turns out to be viable, imagine a caster dps who can wield everything but staves and daggers including all armor classes rolling on "their" gear, i guess this would be the cause of all sorts of problems.
Post by
svirve
Hehe im pretty sure it wont be viable but more of a fun project :)
As for the math would be comparing DPS from judging SoComm and hitting with it VS DPS from judging SoR and hitting with it VS judge.... SoV .... VS judge... SoB.....
Just setting up a threshold SP and then start calculating.
HS can indeed miss and after 162 (a very small test) HS's i had an 11% miss so with about 1% spell hit i'd say it goes by the spell hit table as well.
Exo and cons (first tick) uses spell hit as well.
Judgement uses melee hit.
Just of the bat like that i'd say spell hit > SP > crit for itemizing a build like this.
Post by
Squishalot
svirve, you wouldn't get faster wings with armor penetration instead of increased judgement crit chance?
Personally, I'd drop Fanaticism, pick up two points in Sanctified Retribution, and put the extra point into Pure of Heart to max that out. But yes, as you say, it's all a matter of personal preference on the little things.
In the way of hybrid builds, has anyone considered the unkillable build in a 34/37/0 format?
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sxhbxhrRVzhZVGzArdMhsM
Imp. Righteous Fury and BoS reduce damage by 9%, Glyph of Divine Plea reduces damage by another 3%, Glyph of Salvation will reduce damage by a further 20% when it's active. Ardent Defender reduces damage by 30% on low health, Blessed Life reduces damage by half 10% of the time (being an equivalent 5% mitigation).
2 minute cooldowns on Hand of Protection, as well as Divine Sacrifice and improved Sacred Shield to mitigate your partner's damage. One Handed Specialisation boosts damage of all abilities, not just attacks, making up for dps (if not burst). Gear would be high int, high crit, high resilience - general holy pvp gear, basically.
The drawback being, of course, that you're highly unlikely to kill anyone in the process. Otherwise, you could drop a few points into Reckoning instead of Holy Shield/BoS, and keep SoB/SoM up for some (limited) burst.
Post by
Magnerz
The main snag with the unkilable build is that you provide very little utility to your team comapred to the holy/ret hybrid. No repentance, no breaking yourself and others out of stuns, no moving faster, or reducing others stats by 20% and you will miss out of JotW meaning though you will be unkillable whilst you have mana, you wont have mana for very long. Oh and the DP glyph 3% damage reduction is mostkly useess as you wont want to heal whilst you have DP on...
Factor into this that you also lose an 8% crit chance from Ret Talents and it suddenly doesn't seem as appealing. If being the unstoppable but low longevity/utility healer floats your boat tho', then go for it ;)
Edit: Spelling
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