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Highest HPS Rotation?
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Post by
Aris
So i've been assigned to heal the MT for Anub'arak in Heroic 10-TotGC for phase 3. So far i've been able to keep him up all by myself, but just barely. But i was wondering what the highest HPS rotation would be.
I have the T8 2 piece set bonus, so my riptide is 5 seconds cooldown. In those 5 seconds, i can get off 2 hastened Healing Waves with a little time to spare.
I'm at 611 haste rating. I use the 40 haste food, so that takes me to 651. And i use the 5% spell haste totem.
Post by
448960
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Glorfmorph
So i've been assigned to heal the MT for Anub'arak in Heroic 10-TotGC for phase 3. So far i've been able to keep him up all by myself, but just barely. But i was wondering what the highest HPS rotation would be.
I have the T8 2 piece set bonus, so my riptide is 5 seconds cooldown. In those 5 seconds, i can get off 2 hastened Healing Waves with a little time to spare.
I'm at 611 haste rating. I use the 40 haste food, so that takes me to 651. And i use the 5% spell haste totem.
Your gems make me sad = (
I would assume: Rip, HW, HW, Chain, HW HW (repeat)
Post by
Aris
We are 2 healing it. 1 on the raid, and 1 on the MT. raid healer tosses a rejuv on the MT when he has time, but he's usually pretty busy. Sooo yea, its just me solo healing the MT from 30% down.
I use RT/LHW/LHW on phase 1 and 2, but on phase 3 it just isn't enough. Sometimes i'll mix in a LHW instead of a hastened HW to get the 10% damage reduction buff on the tank if its about to drop off since LHW has a higher chance to crit.
I dont know if i have the time to use CH on the MT for phase 3. It doesnt get hastened like HW does from riptide. Even with 650+ haste and totem of air CH is still like 1.9sec cast which is an eternity when the MT drops around 15-20k health every second or so.
I'm not glyphed for LHW because i almost always raid heal. This is a special circumstance. The guild leader put together his best 10 to do heroic 10-TotGC and needed a shaman for heroism and i was the best geared that had the time to put in an extra day of raiding to do it. Even if i did have LHW glyphed, would LHW heal for more than HW? I mean the cast time on them is about the same if you factor in the riptide haste.
We 3 heal the first 4 bosses, but he pulled the disc priest to dps as shadow for this boss. Even with the extra dps'er, we still barely get him into phase 3 before he burrows a second time.
So its me and a resto druid. I just want to make sure i'm doing the best i can, because theres been a few times now where the MT's health dropped a bit lower than i would like to see. I let him die once, but it was like 2 seconds after a wipe was called, but i hadn't let up on heals yet. So "technically" i let him die, but no one noticed cause a wipe had been called already.
Your gems make me sad = (
How so? Them not being Epic? i've only been lvl 80 on this toon 2 weeks now. I havnt even had time to get 5k gold up for epic flying skill training. I'm workin on it best i can. Some things i can afford, some things i cant. In the last 2 weeks I've had to re-enchant all my gear like 3 times now.
I would assume: Rip, HW, HW, Chain, HW HW (repeat)
So a chain and 2x un-hastened HW's before another Rip? I understand you "usually" want to give riptide time to tick its HoT, but ignore mana for a second and just tell me the highest HPS i can get. If that means dropping RT every 5 seconds just to get hastened HW's or higher crit LHW's then so be it.
Post by
Aris
I just did a quick test because i wasnt sure. Without the haste food buff, sitting at 615 haste and totem of air down, my cast times are:
CH: 2 seconds
LHW: 1.2 seconds
HW hastened from RT: 1.4 seconds
As for amounts they heal for. Without raid buffs and only my own totems down:
CH: 6k normal, 9.2k crit. With Riptide Up: 10.8k normal, 16.8k crit.
LHW: 4.4k normal, 6.7k crit
HW: 11k normal, 16k crit
Also, i have the ilvl 245 totem that increases spell power by 234 when i use CH with a 70% proc rate. So perhaps if i fit CH into the rotation somewhere every 5 seconds or so, it should be up all the time.
Even if i did glyph LHW, that would only put it up to around 5.3k to 8k. Still less than HW and only .2 seconds faster. Even if they both crit it would still be less than 2x HW's that dont crit.
So maybe RT/HW/HW/CH rinse repeat? I get 2x hastened HW's from riptide, then CH consumes the RT to boost its healing and also procs the totem for extra spell power. I figure after i use 2x HW's, that HW will be a 2 second cast just like CH, and CH heals for about the same amount as HW when it consumes a RT. Plus CH procs the extra spell power.
It would be a 6 second rotation (best case scenario not factoring latency), so it would work even if i lost my 2piece T8 set bonus. Trying to fit in as much as i can between RT cooldowns, since i figure my best HPS is going to come from hastened healing waves.
What do you think?
Post by
Glorfmorph
Sorry, didn't meant to have a dig at your gems, it's just weird seeing a 245 item (better than most of mine) and not seeing an Epic in it (which only cost 10k honor, or about 150g).
Umm, you realize Chain heal procs tidal waves too right? that's why I said the above rotation.
Post by
Aris
Ah yea i forgot about that. Idunno though. I'd get the hastened HW's wither i use CH or Riptide (which will be off cooldown by the time my CH goes off).
If i go straight into 2x HW, i gain a 1.2sec GCD from not having to cast Riptide again.
If i cast RT after the CH, i get the HoT from RT (which ticks twice in 6 seconds for around 1k each time) plus the initial 3500(self buffed) healing from RT while im casting the HW's, plus I'll end up casting CH more often since it will be a 6sec rotation instead of a 8.8sec rotation. This way I'd use CH more often, and increase the likelihood of keeping the 234sp buff up from my totem.
So is a gain of 1.2 seconds from having an extra GCD from RT going to offset 6 seconds of a RT/HoT plus the increased chance of loosing 234 spell power for a few seconds?
RT does around the same amount of healing over 6 seconds as a glyphed LHW. Still less HPS than a HW or a CH.
I guess if you didnt factor in the 234sp bonus from the totem, then the RT/HW/HW/CH/HW/HW would be best, but idunno if loosing that buff from not casting CH as often is going to make up that difference or not.
I think i'll go with your way.
RT/HW/HW/CH/HW/HW
I think i'll also switch out my haste food for the fish food, and switch out my mp5 flask for spell power flask. That will put my spell power up to around 2800 with all my buffs. I think the change in rotation along with the increased spell power will really make the difference.
Thanks.
Post by
Tooteofdoom
The most mana efficient and hps output for me is RT/LHW/LHW/LHW/LHW/RT repeat , though my LHW cast time is 1 second long in raids.
Post by
448960
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Glorfmorph
The most mana efficient and hps output for me is RT/LHW/LHW/LHW/LHW/RT repeat , though my LHW cast time is 1 second long in raids.
This is not the highest HPS because with Tidal waves, HW is so close to the GCD as to call them the same. Therefore you can choose to cast 2 HW's or 2 LHW's in the same time, which do you think will heal for more? In a movement fight, sure LHW's can be much more beneficial because of the half second or so that you get to move and cast. But phase3 of Anub doesn't require moving.
Aris, I'm glad you've put a lot of thought into it, I don't know for sure if it is definitely the best HPS, your RT,HW,HW,CH - Repeat may also be quite good. Honestly, with around 3k SP myself If i chain spam ANY half-decent rotation the thing i'm healing shouldn't die (thinks back to healing a mage who'd got aggro after a tank had died in some random heroic dungeon).
Mana will become an issue though, and hence some of these other rotation's may start becoming more valid.
Post by
Mesoforte
Chain Heal+Hodir+Light Beam+Bloodlust.
:D
Post by
MegaVolt
Since your problem seems to be solved I have a question ;)
How do you handle the adds?
My guild also dual heals p3 but we have a holy Paladin healing the tanks. When we enter p3 we usually have 2 adds still alive that are off tanked and while p3 is active two additional adds spawn which also want to be tanked. So you need an off tank that also has to be kept at high health.
Our Paladin can heal both well enough using beacon on the off tank while spam healing the MT. How do you solve that problem?
Post by
Aris
Since your problem seems to be solved I have a question ;)
How do you handle the adds?
My guild also dual heals p3 but we have a holy Paladin healing the tanks. When we enter p3 we usually have 2 adds still alive that are off tanked and while p3 is active two additional adds spawn which also want to be tanked. So you need an off tank that also has to be kept at high health.
Our Paladin can heal both well enough using beacon on the off tank while spam healing the MT. How do you solve that problem?
Boss must be under 65% health before phase 1 ends. Preferably under 60%.
Adds have to die before boss hits 30% on the second phase 1.
Boss must hit 30% before he submerges for a second time. He can only submerge once during the entire encounter or its a wipe. Pop heroism after adds are dead and phase 3 has begun. If you need extra dps to get adds down fast enough, we have everyone pop haste potions during the second phase 1.
This is for heroic 10man, its much easier on non heroic.
Post by
MegaVolt
Boss must be under 65% health before phase 1 ends. Preferably under 60%.
Adds have to die before boss hits 30% on the second phase 1.
Boss must hit 30% before he submerges for a second time. He can only submerge once during the entire encounter or its a wipe. Pop heroism after adds are dead and phase 3 has begun. If you need extra dps to get adds down fast enough, we have everyone pop haste potions during the second phase 1.
This is for heroic 10man, its much easier on non heroic.
I know that and we are doing exactly the same quite successfully (mad skill so far).
But, as I said, during p3 there do spawn 2 more adds that have to be handled. How do you do that without healing on the off tank?
For us the holy Paladins beacon takes care of it but from what our Paladin says he couldn't nearly keep two people alive without beacon (just as you he is struggeling enough just to keep the MT alive spamming everything he has at him) and the raid healer (me) also can't spare nearly enough casting time to top off a tank.
I also got another question that is related to the topic (maximum HPS) but not really related to tank healing:
What actually is the maximum HPS a Shaman can produce continuously?
Let's way we are healing Twin Valks or Anub p3 and nobody is ever topped off, overhealing is 0%.
We can use any spells and there always are plenty of raid members with enough health missing so that everything always hits for its theoretical maximum.
I'd assume simply chain heal spam with the occasional Riptide (and targeting CH on ppl whose RT will run out in a second) will produce the highest number? Assuming typical raid stats how high would that be?
How would that change from a fight like Twin Valks (normal Earthliving proc rate) compared to a fight line Anub p3 (everyone below 35% health at all times, vastly increased Earthliving proc rate)?
What's maximum HPS possible with the normal EL proc and what's maximum (sustained) HPS possible with the increased proc chance?
Post by
251602
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
467672
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
d2thomas
@Aris
In regards to healing with HW vs LHW: Keep in mind that while with haste HW is a great heal, it
IS
very mana intensive. The faster, cheaper LHW has several benefits that it doesn't look like anyone has mentioned yet, so I'll point them out. First with
Tidal Waves
, you increase your critical stike by 25% on your LHW. With any basic amount of resto gear that pushes your rating to around 50%. This would be much higher than your chance to crit with HW. Why is this important? Well several of our best talents involve critical heals.
Ancestral Healing
will reduce the physical incoming damage to the tank by 10%. This should have 100% up time. Secondly
Ancestral Awakening
will heal the lowest HP raid member (within 40 yards) for 30% of the critical heal. Basically that is a free smart passive heal. If you are tank healing with the
LHW glyph
that critical heal will be even more and your Ancestral Awakening will be relationally more as well. Lastly when you crit a LHW you have a 60% chance to gain a
water orb
. Now you may be saying "But when HW crits it's a 100% chance to gain an orb" and technically that is true. However regardless of HW having a 100% chance when you crit to gain an orb, the actual spell's mana inefficiencies and lowered chance to crit make it actually net less mana return to you than by using LHW.
So to recap, using LHW over HW will:
Increase your mana efficiency and crit based MP5.
Ensure 100% up time on your tanks physical damage reduction buff.
Increase proc on Ancestral Awakening: a free, smart, and passive heal.
Remember, knowing your class and activating the synergy between talents is the difference between a good healer and a great healer.
Post by
Tenshigure
I really don't know right numbers but, in my experience, the 3rd phase on Anub, shouldn't last too long to notice a big difference on HPS due to EL procs... The higher procs on EL give you more HPS that's true but since it doesn't stack (never read anything different but I could be wrong there), it gets refreshed quite often, due to CH spamming, so you loose some good potential HPS.
3rd Phase Anub is definitely a unique encounter for any healer, seeing as you have to do as little healing to prevent him from healing himself up, but at the same time needing to get to "bleeding edge" low HP for all players and heal them up so they don't fall to the same Raid-wide damage.
If I had to compare my HPS in 2nd phase compared to 3rd, I'd say there is an overall 2K DROP in HPS to be honest, but that's only due to fight mechanics, not because I can't crank those numbers out.
I'll relent on the OP topic though: I've said it before and I'll say it again, HPS means nothing if you aren't efficient with your mana. I'm far more concerned about my Overhealing:HPS ratio than I am topping the metres to be honest.
- High HPS + Low Overheal = Good Efficiency, Good Heals
- High HPS + High Overheal = Not bad, but terribly inefficient (won't last forever as you progress, your group may be undergeared XD)
- Low HPS + Low Overheal = Depends on the fight, could be good or bad (this happens in Anub 3rd and Hodir for me due to all the movement)
- Low HPS + High Overheal = Back to the drawing board, you need to be quicker on the draw or go back to healer school.
Post by
Playdead
Sorry, didn't meant to have a dig at your gems, it's just weird seeing a 245 item (better than most of mine) and not seeing an Epic in it (which only cost 10k honor, or about 150g)
Another thing I see way too often is people trying to activate all their gem socket bonuses. Most of the time its not really worth it and you'd be better off gemming for pure haste or whatever personal stat your trying to increase. Just try to activate your Meta then go all out for the stat you're trying to maximize.
For instance my shaman hasn't been able to get the kind of haste gear I want so I've had to gem for as much haste as possible to make up for that. I didn't waste any potential haste gains by activating a blue socket with a green gem just for a worthless extra +4 crit.
Post by
MegaVolt
3rd Phase Anub is definitely a unique encounter for any healer, seeing as you have to do as little healing to prevent him from healing himself up, but at the same time needing to get to "bleeding edge" low HP for all players and heal them up so they don't fall to the same Raid-wide damage.
Oh I'm sorry I wasn't really clear on my post. I was thinking of dual healing 10man ToC hard mode for my raid heal question as well. One tank healer, one raid healer and that's it - like in the OP.
As raid healer you simply have to put as as much healing as possible in that case. Hard mode is very different from normal mode. In normal mode slacking is the way to go but in HM the raid will take so much damage that you can't afford to waste even a single GCD.
At least that's the case on my Druid. And that's the reason I'm asking: I'm currently gearing up my resto Shaman and I'd like to get a general idea about how healing with that Shaman will be compared to my Druid. I haven't done any raids on my Shaman yet, just heroics so far (and those are quite easy - ES on the tank, go afk for a minute, collect loot).
When dual healing on my Druid in p3 Anub 10 hard mode I pump between 15k and 20k HPS (Rejuvenation x10 ticking for ~800 HPS each, Glyph of Rejuvenation increasing this by 50% for everyone exept the tanks, 4t9 to make it crit, WG on 6 raid members at all times with averaged ~750 HPS each, occasional Nourish on the two people with the debuff) into the raid in any given second. And it is
barely
enough to keep everyone alive.
Assuming the numbers from the post above (6k CH, 9k crit, let's say 7k average) glyphed CH spam on it's own will heal 15k hp each cast (7 + 4.2 + 2.5 + 1.5). Bloodlusted that would be around 10k HPS, add in HST and ES and Earthliving ticking on 10 raid members a Shaman should be able to also get into the 15k to 20k HPS range. Am I right with this very simple calculation or did I miss something?
I think it should actually be better to heal this on a Shaman then on a Druid. Assuming that the Shaman can provide the same HPS the smart CH will take care of low hp raid members on its own and targeting the ones with the debuff will make sure that they never die. As Druid it really is a pain to keep all these HoTs going and still throw out enough single target heals to save people with the debuff. It's very easy to make a mistake there and every single mistake will get somebody killed and probably the raid wiped. The Shaman max raid HPS rotation should be a lot less vulnerable to human error I assume. At least if the numbers I so roughly estimated here are about correct and if it really works that way. And that's why I'm asking here ;) Am I totally off with this line of thought?
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