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Healing way vs. Elemental weapons
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Post by
195614
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
tinger
re: Healing Wave vs Ele weapons
Guys, its really very simple..
If you're not gonna be tank healing then do not spec for Healing way/wave.
Even though Elem weapon equiv sp isn't huge.. its as much as another food buff.
Have u guys even compare the cost of the +63 weapon enchant vs +50?
This (EW) sp applies to everysingle spell u cast during a raid.. (3-4 hours)..vs..
If u're not tanking how many times would you cast back to back HW to the SAME target?
You dont have to believe me.. do ur home work.. chk out talents of the brains over at EJ.
Check out Meka over at Ensidia
Post by
tinger
Oh and don't cast Lesser Healing Wave. It's a poo spell meant for pvp unless you have it glyphed, then it's only good for whomever has earth shield.
Omg,
I hope you're joking!
Pls do some research to better your play and not confuse newbies
Post by
tinger
If you are in 10-mans than it is more likely for you to have to heal MT, and you need healing way for that. Lesser healing way is fine for healing tanks in Naxx-10,
but is useless in Ulduar when bosses hit for over 10K. Your LHW simply won't be able to keep tank alive even if you spam it.
This was the biggest reality check for me and even had me questioning my abilities as a healer. I respec'd to get healing way and now precast Riptide and Healing Wave for the big spike damage and keep my "Oh Sh!t" button ready if needed. In Ulduar, healers actually have to pay attention unlike the facerolling that was involved with Naxx.
wow guys..
I appreciate people posting question and others trying to help.. but after skimming thru the posts.. I strongly suggest y'all spend some time reading over at EJ.
Most of these well intentioned posts are just plain wrong!
Post by
Mesoforte
If you are in 10-mans than it is more likely for you to have to heal MT, and you need healing way for that. Lesser healing way is fine for healing tanks in Naxx-10,
but is useless in Ulduar when bosses hit for over 10K. Your LHW simply won't be able to keep tank alive even if you spam it.
This was the biggest reality check for me and even had me questioning my abilities as a healer. I respec'd to get healing way and now precast Riptide and Healing Wave for the big spike damage and keep my "Oh Sh!t" button ready if needed. In Ulduar, healers actually have to pay attention unlike the facerolling that was involved with Naxx.
wow guys..
I appreciate people posting question and others trying to help.. but after skimming thru the posts.. I strongly suggest y'all spend some time reading over at EJ.
Most of these well intentioned posts are just plain wrong!
Actually, I recommend you try Iron Council before you judge that post. Runemaster will give 10k melee hits on your tank. Lesser healing wave will usually heal around 4k. Healing Wave will cover that with great efficiency if you pre-cast the heal.
Oh and don't cast Lesser Healing Wave. It's a poo spell meant for pvp unless you have it glyphed, then it's only good for whomever has earth shield.
Omg,
I hope you're joking!
Pls do some research to better your play and not confuse newbies
Lesser Healing Wave
This is the fastest heal a shaman can cast. However, it is our smallest heal and doesn't stack Healing Way. In addition, Tidal Waves does not reduce the GCD and thus LHW throughput is capped by the GCD.
To be an effective heal, shaman must have the Glyph of Lesser Healing Wave
and an Earth Shield on the target.
Otherwise, shaman should use Chain Heal or Healing Wave. Without the LHW Glyph, Chain Heal does more healing to a single target than LHW and there is always the chance it will jump to other players.
In a 25-man raid, shaman should use Chain Heal instead. Chain Heal is more expensive (793 mana at Level 80) than LHW (626 mana). However, Chain Heal does more healing to a single target and there is always a chance it will jump to other players.
http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t24796-shaman_restoration/#Lesser_Healing_Wave
I suggest you recheck elitist jerks before you quote them. That does not say anything great about lesser healing wave.
Post by
Mesoforte
re: Healing Wave vs Ele weapons
Guys, its really very simple..
If you're not gonna be tank healing then do not spec for Healing way/wave.
Even though Elem weapon equiv sp isn't huge.. its as much as another food buff.
Have u guys even compare the cost of the +63 weapon enchant vs +50?
This (EW) sp applies to everysingle spell u cast during a raid.. (3-4 hours)..vs..
If u're not tanking how many times would you cast back to back HW to the SAME target?
You dont have to believe me.. do ur home work.. chk out talents of the brains over at EJ.
Check out Meka over at Ensidia
Blarg, Math is your friend. While elemental weapons will increase the amount you heal, it does not increase your effective healing if you do not take into account the extra hp you will heal for. If you do not wait for that little bit of extra hp to be lost on your target, you are wasting 3 talent points. And if you wait for it, you'll be sniped.
You cannot compare three talent points to an enchant that you have little choice of changing. That enchant is the best one for healers, so there's little choice left for another one. Same with the food buff, however you can choose a haste food buff instead of the spellpower one, just as you can choose a haste/intellect elixir combo.
Bleh-
Chain Heal
1.34*45=60.3 extra healing on the first jump of chain heal
.67*45=30.15 on the second jump
.335*45=15.075 on the third jump
2.345*45=105.525 if you get 3 jumps
Healing Wave
1.6106*45=72.477
Lesser Healing Wave
0.8082*45=36.369
Riptide
1.30*45=58.5 Total
.4*45=8 Initial Hit.
Greatest single target benefit from elemental weapons- Healing wave-72 extra hp.
Ah, to add to that, lesser healing wave will heal for around 4k on non-earth shield targets.
36/4000=.009
.9% extra healing for three talent points. And it gets worse as you get more spellpower. Doesn't that sound fantastic?
Post by
tinger
I
Actually, I recommend you try Iron Council before you judge that post. Runemaster will give 10k melee hits on your tank. Lesser healing wave will usually heal around 4k. Healing Wave will cover that with great efficiency if you pre-cast the heal.
Lesser Healing Wave
This is the fastest heal a shaman can cast. However, it is our smallest heal and doesn't stack Healing Way. In addition, Tidal Waves does not reduce the GCD and thus LHW throughput is capped by the GCD.
To be an effective heal, shaman must have the Glyph of Lesser Healing Wave
and an Earth Shield on the target.
Otherwise, shaman should use Chain Heal or Healing Wave. Without the LHW Glyph, Chain Heal does more healing to a single target than LHW and there is always the chance it will jump to other players.
In a 25-man raid, shaman should use Chain Heal instead. Chain Heal is more expensive (793 mana at Level 80) than LHW (626 mana). However, Chain Heal does more healing to a single target and there is always a chance it will jump to other players.
http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t24796-shaman_restoration/#Lesser_Healing_Wave
I suggest you recheck elitist jerks before you quote them. That does not say anything great about lesser healing wave.
First of all, we have IC on farm. U're talking abt IC as if u were tank healing.. there's bosses that hits tanks harder then 10K.. I hope ur guild have Pallies/Disc priests on them and not you! Sure by all means throw em a spot heal.. IF you are tank healing, then spec for Healing wave.. I donno what we're arguing abt here.
As to CH, why on earth would anyone cast a CH to hit 1 target? longer casting time and more mana? I dont know if you're aware, for CH spamming the best stat is haste. If one stacks Haste, u're giving up intel/crit. For riptide/lhw spamming u need to run less haste, but making up with much higher crit. My LHW crits for abt 8K over 40% of time..
The Skyhoof post u quoted from EJ is a generalization. The part that says 'In a 25-man raid, shaman should use Chain Heal instead...) is not meant for Uldar where there are plenty of encounters which requires you to constantly move and spread apart...
I dare you to go post on EJ saying that casting HW(not tank healing) and CH is the best way to go in Uldar!
I've tested it with 900 buffed haste(without tidal wave).. even that is too slow. A competent tree and priest will destroy u on the meter. Ya sure, CH worked in Naxx/OS, etc
Have you even read any current post on EJ about the state of shammy healing for Uldar?
Basically for uldar.. seems like the best way for us to go is keep haste to ard mid 500.. as it lowers GCD.
Wear some so called elemental gear.. sp/crit/haste.. forgo some mp5.. the crit will proc water shield orbs for mp5 regen.
Post by
tinger
re: Healing Wave vs Ele weapons
Blarg, Math is your friend. While elemental weapons will increase the amount you heal, it does not increase your effective healing if you do not take into account the extra hp you will heal for. If you do not wait for that little bit of extra hp to be lost on your target, you are wasting 3 talent points. And if you wait for it, you'll be sniped.
You cannot compare three talent points to an enchant that you have little choice of changing. That enchant is the best one for healers, so there's little choice left for another one. Same with the food buff, however you can choose a haste food buff instead of the spellpower one, just as you can choose a haste/intellect elixir combo.
That is precisely why riptide/lhw is your friend! Again, I'm not advocating this for ALL encounters!
My overhealing is usually last amongst 7 healers and usually 1st or 2nd on the top.
Lets forget abt effective healing for now.
You're precisely correct... what little u get from Ele weapons, u can eat other food besides sp
So what we have here is u can put points on Healing Way and maybe use it once per nite or
points into Ele weapon where u might or might not over heal for ALL spells
I cant believe I'm wasting bandwidth on this topic here..
If you are tank healing, then spec for healing way..
Post by
Mesoforte
First of all, we have IC on farm. U're talking abt IC as if u were tank healing.. there's bosses that hits tanks harder then 10K.. I hope ur guild have Pallies/Disc priests on them and not you! Sure by all means throw em a spot heal.. IF you are tank healing, then spec for Healing wave.. I donno what we're arguing abt here.
As to CH, why on earth would anyone cast a CH to hit 1 target? longer casting time and more mana? I dont know if you're aware, for CH spamming the best stat is haste. If one stacks Haste, u're giving up intel/crit. For riptide/lhw spamming u need to run less haste, but making up with much higher crit. My LHW crits for abt 8K over 40% of time..
The Skyhoof post u quoted from EJ is a generalization. The part that says 'In a 25-man raid, shaman should use Chain Heal instead...) is not meant for Uldar where there are plenty of encounters which requires you to constantly move and spread apart...
I dare you to go post on EJ saying that casting HW(not tank healing) and CH is the best way to go in Uldar!
I've tested it with 900 buffed haste(without tidal wave).
. even that is too slow. A competent tree and priest will destroy u on the meter. Ya sure, CH worked in Naxx/OS, etc
Have you even read any current post on EJ about the state of shammy healing for Uldar?
Basically for uldar.. seems like the best way for us to go is keep haste to ard mid 500.. as it lowers GCD.
Wear some so called elemental gear.. sp/crit/haste.. forgo some mp5.. the crit will proc water shield orbs for mp5 regen.
I only emphasized one part of the quote-
To be an effective heal, shaman must have the Glyph of Lesser Healing Wave and an Earth Shield on the target.
However, 45 sp with an 8k heal. You're getting .45% bonus healing for three talent points. Don't you feel special?
That is precisely why riptide/lhw is your friend! Again, I'm not advocating this for ALL encounters!
My overhealing is usually last amongst 7 healers and usually 1st or 2nd on the top.
Lets forget abt effective healing for now.
You're precisely correct... what little u get from Ele weapons, u can eat other food besides sp
So what we have here is u can put points on Healing Way and maybe use it once per nite or
points into Ele weapon where u might or might not over heal for ALL spells
I cant believe I'm wasting bandwidth on this topic here..
If you are tank healing, then spec for healing way..
Anecdotal Evidence
The point is that the boost in spellpower does you little good when you're healing in the four thousand range. However, I think its hilarious that you say "Let's forget about effective healing for now."
That reminds me of one of my favorite philosophers, Rousseau. He would say, "Let's ignore the facts." If you cannot tell what I am implying here about you, then you probably just failed a spot check in a tabletop dungeon game.
Post by
tinger
However, 45 sp with an 8k heal. You're getting .45% bonus healing for three talent points. Don't you feel special?
hmmm.. why use only 8k heal as an example? what happen to riptides, lhw that doesn't crit.. what's the % bonus then? Regardless if its .5% or 1% or 2% etc.. isn't this better than spending 3 pts into healing way that u probably wont even utilize during the raid?
I said 'lets not talk abt effective healing for now' because u DO NOT overheal much casting rip tide/ lhw... unlike HW which u're advocating! I'm not ignoring the facts.. I just assume u know the spells in our arsenal. My assumption is obviously wrong
Maybe instead of quoting philosophers, u should do some more reading on how to play your class.
Let me help you.. start with this
http://ensidia.com/community/blogs/shamans-ulduar-and-music.html
.
You'll probably quote philosophers to counter what Meka wrote.
Heres another one
http://elitistjerks.com/f79/t49212-resto_best_practices_pve_healing_discussion/p15/
.. (post 374)
Heres another quote from Sixthy:
I'm not here trying to convince u I'm one of of the best.. I'm most definitely not... but the posts I've linked are from the best playing this game, world wide!
Pls feel free not to respond to this post for my benefit.. I will not visit it again
Post by
Mesoforte
However, 45 sp with an 8k heal. You're getting .45% bonus healing for three talent points. Don't you feel special?
hmmm.. why use only 8k heal as an example? what happen to riptides, lhw that doesn't crit.. what's the % bonus then? Regardless if its .5% or 1% or 2% etc.. isn't this better than spending 3 pts into healing way that u probably wont even utilize during the raid?
I said 'lets not talk abt effective healing for now' because u DO NOT overheal much casting rip tide/ lhw... unlike HW which u're advocating! I'm not ignoring the facts.. I just assume u know the spells in our arsenal. My assumption is obviously wrong
Maybe instead of quoting philosophers, u should do some more reading on how to play your class.
Let me help you.. start with this
http://ensidia.com/community/blogs/shamans-ulduar-and-music.html
.
You'll probably quote philosophers to counter what Meka wrote.
Heres another one
http://elitistjerks.com/f79/t49212-resto_best_practices_pve_healing_discussion/p15/
.. (post 374)
Heres another quote from Sixthy:
I'm not here trying to convince u I'm one of of the best.. I'm most definitely not... but the posts I've linked are from the best playing this game, world wide!
Pls feel free not to respond to this post for my benefit.. I will not visit it again
I'm not going to argue with people and say "using HW is stupid" because if it works for you, it works for you.
As for me, it's just not my style. I like hitting my targets and moving on knowing that they're going to get the final top off from druid hots / priest group heals / AA proc / Riptide - whatever the case may be. My purpose is just to bring them up as fast as possible to save any potential gib.
And in some situations
, speed is everything rather than the actual effective heal that lands.
Elemental weapons isn't mentioned on either thread, and that's what this topic is about. :o
I do respect those players by the way. I just don't respect people who can't create their own arguments and then attempt to trash other posters based upon hearsay with a complete inability to interpret a few numbers gained through formulas. You haven't done the math, and can't make the argument, so I would suggest that you do not try.
However, I would love an argument with any poster on Elitist Jerks or any experienced shaman who knew how to work their own statistics. Those arguments always prove interesting challenges for me, even if I don't win them. Not only that, they would actual argue the points instead of creating a straw man to beat upon.
If you are wondering what the straw man was, I never actually said "You should use Healing Wave over Lesser Healing Wave."
Actually, I recommend you try Iron Council before you judge that post. Runemaster will give 10k melee hits on your tank. Lesser healing wave will usually heal around 4k. Healing Wave will cover that with great efficiency if you pre-cast the heal.
So you got emotionally flustered over nothing. :\
Post by
195614
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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