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10.2.7
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10.2.6
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Gear needs an overhaul
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Post by
97034
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Aeliel
Let's see. :)
(Note: I'm approaching this from an entirely PVE DPS perspective - therefore I'm ignoring PVP, and I'm ignoring tanking. :) )
First of all - talents. I know you said gear, but I couldn't resist taking a quick look through your talents as well. :)
Your talent choices are mostly good, but you're skipping on some very good DPS talents for some very situational ones.
If you're set on having Imp. MotW (or have to) due to being the only druid in the raid (understandable at the level of content you're at), I would recommend a spec like
this
(the one floating point can be put, really, wherever you like).
From your spec, it drops:
- Brutal Impact (PVP talent mostly, extremely situational in PVE and mostly useless for DPS)
- Feral Aggression (not that essential for tanking, sub-par for DPS as you really don't want to be using Ferocious Bite very much - I understand things in Karazhan are mostly immune to bleeding and therefore you can't use Rip much, but as you move onwards, Rip will be your best finisher when you know it'll tick down fully, as it has a far better damage-per-energy ratio)
- Primal Tenacity (with the 2.3 changes that mean mobs will still chase whoever has aggro even if they get feared, it's of extremely dubious if any utility in PVE, and is almost entirely a PVP talent now)
To get:
- Naturalist (really no reason to skip a 10% increase to all melee damage you do)
- Predatory Instinct (no reason to not fill this up, it makes your crits hit harder)
Should you want to / be able to stop having Imp. MotW, there are several talents you could put those 5 points in instead:
- The mostly-PVP talents you had in your original spec (2/2 Brutal Impact, 3/3 Primal Tenacity)
- Feral Aggression (yes, I'm aware I suggested you remove this from your spec if you need to keep Imp. MotW - thing is, of all the useful talents in the feral tree, this is one of the least useful, and therefore it usually is the first in line to be sacrificed; but if you have 5 free points, and you are mostly PVE DPS, you might as well stick them here)
- Intensity (tanking choice; 10 rage instantly is a wonderful thing).
Now, concerning gear...
First of all - the two-piece T4 set bonus is absolutely fantastic in terms of DPS. No set bonus beats it until you hit the 4-piece bonus of T6.
There's been discussion on which two pieces of T4 are best to keep for the set bonus, but it's largely irrelevant for you since those two pieces of T4 are all you have access to. :)
General gemming advice: for DPS, gemming +8agi (
Delicate Living Ruby
) is generally seen as the way to go. You do, though, need two yellow and two blue gems for the Relentless Earthstorm Diamond - your choices are
Inscribed Noble Topaz
and
Glinting Noble Topaz
for the yellows, and 2x
Shifting Nightseye
are the easiest way of filling the blues (though
Shifting Tanzanite
from Heroic SV is absolutely fantastic, get that if you can).
Moving on, going piece by piece... (not going to list possible upgrades for each unless the item could really use replacing - if you want to know an upgrade route for any specific item, ask :) )
Helm: good helm, good enchant, good meta, toss that +4resist gem out the window and slot something more useful there instead (ideally, one of the two orange gems mentioned above, so you can get the extra +4agi from the socket bonus).
Neck: replace the gem. Get a better necklace if you can at all: even with a better gem (used +8agi in the calculations), there are some very definite upgrades. In order of desirability:
Mithril Chain of Heroism
(upgrade in AP, downgrade in crit - but being agility instead of crit rating, it'll scale with raid buffs),
Saberclaw Talisman
(slightly worse, but not by that much),
Worgen Claw Necklace
/
Choker of Vile Intent
(slightly worse, but at the same time better due to having hit rating - you appear to be somewhat short of the cap; which one you get, they're mostly identical, so which one you get, should you decide to go for a necklace with +hit, depends solely on whether you want to be waiting for a drop or spending badges :) ).
Shoulders: good item, good enchant, replace the gems.
Back: enchant's good, but - don't take this the wrong way, but I honestly don't think that cape is worth the materials even as a tanking cloak, nevermind in a DPS set. :/
A good start for a replacement would be
Capacitus' Cloak of Calibration
; on the epic side,
Blood Knight War Cloak
would be an upgrade over Capacitus' (though a small one), while
Drape of the Dark Reavers
is a sidegrade aimed at +hit.
Royal Cloak of Arathi Kings
might look nice but makes kittens cry (inferior in AP to Dark Reavers, and no crit at all - all for a tiiiiny upgrade in +hit); I would avoid it.
Cloak of Darkness
is a good craftable upgrade/sidegrade to Capacitus' (slightly less AP, more crit), but it might be hard to find somebody who can craft it for you and it's somewhat debatable whether the materials are worth it.
Chest: looks fine to me, enchant and everything.
Wrists: ditto.
Gloves: replace the enchant (+15agi instead of +15str).
Belt: fine.
Legs: good item, but change the gems. (These, incidentally, look like a good place to stick one of the blue gems you need to activate your meta gem - as you'll be getting the additional benefit of the socket bonus.) Replace the enchant, as well -
Cobrahide Leg Armor
not only gives you the same crit % you're getting from the agility from the Clefthide, but also gives extra AP.
Boots: good boots, pretty good gem choices as well (while I didn't mention the +8hit gem in my list of gems above, you're somewhat short on +hit so it works out). Appears to be missing an enchant (although it might just be tooltip weirdness): I would recommend +12agi.
Rings: not spectacular, especially Delicate Eternium could use replacing (dodge is entirely useless from a DPS perspective) -
Ring of Arathi Warlords
is one of many possible upgrades, but I'm slightly too sleepy now to sort through a long list of rings :) Say if you want suggestions, and I'll make another post.
Trinkets: desperately need replacements, assuming Insignia of the Alliance / Adamantine Figurine are what you use for DPS (you might have swapped gear since you posted, I don't know :) ).
Crystalforged Trinket
is good (and should be no problem for you to acquire, since you're revered with Ogri'la), as are
Hourglass of the Unraveller
and
Bloodlust Brooch
.
Idol: good.
Post by
Aeliel
My post was too long. :P
Let's carry on...
Weapon: Earthwarden works, while not stellar (even
Dreamer's Dragonstaff
would be better). I would replace the Savagery enchant with +35agi, either way.
Lastly: I would recommend you go read the
Feral Druid Megathread
on the EJ forums. The first few posts have a pretty good summary of both catform and bearform basics (general stats to aim for, gems, enchants, etc).
Post by
97034
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
k0rr
to be honest, i'm not a big fan of +AP items on a druid. and i absolutely hate the, nerf imo, change to heart of the wild (20% strength --> 10% AP)
for example let's take 2 random chestpieces, for the sake of an example
one gives +50 strength (100 AP)
and the other gives +100 AP
the old talent would have given you 20% extra strength, therefore +60 strength (120 AP)
the new talent gives you 10% AP, and therefore 110 AP.
a nerf.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Blackwing+Lair&n=Xoan
this is my druid in DPS gear. as you can tell i'm a fan of stacking the raw stats (str, agi, stam). and it gives me 2501 AP unbuffed in cat form.
though i've killed prince like 30 times, i've yet to see the druid t4 helm token drop >:(
but anyways, if you look up most of my items (cept for t4 gloves, boots, belt, bracers, chest, head) they are all lv70 non-heroic drops or quest rewards
i really need to get them replaced :[
i just have shit luck when it comes to the items that i want dropping.
although...for those pieces mentioned above, before i got them, i had...
gloves:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30341
boots:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28074
belt:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30942
bracers:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30944
chest:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30379
head:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=25975
but since you already have pieces that are upgrades, disregard this last paragraph
even after the patch, i still prefer to stack raw stats because, a druid gains the most +crit, +dodge, +AP, and other vital stats from raw agi and strength. mainly because of blessing of kings =)
i guess after going through the hardwork and crafting primalstrike, it doesnt hurt to keep it. after the change to heart of the wild it multiplies the +AP gained from that set anyway. and +hit never hurts.
aeliel covered up talents pretty well. if your guild doesnt require you to spec for imp motw, i would really recommend the talent build that i'm using. i really feel that imp motw is not worth the 5 talent points anyway, for measly boosts to the buff. no one will notice that you dont have it, except when they inspect your talents.
Post by
Aeliel
to be honest, i'm not a big fan of +AP items on a druid. and i absolutely hate the, nerf imo, change to heart of the wild (20% strength --> 10% AP)
It's only a nerf if you stack strength to the detriment of
every other stat
.
This page
has a good extensive discussion of how the math works out.
Choice quote, if you don't want to wade through it all:
With the interactions (and lack thereof) of SotF with Strength, Agility and Attack Power, then the change to HotW is:
A buff, if ( Agility + ( AP ÷ 1.03 ) ) > Strength × 2 );
a nerf, if ( Agility + ( AP ÷ 1.03 ) ) < Strength × 2 );
without effect, if ( Agility + ( AP ÷ 1.03 ) ) = Strength × 2 )
For the vast majority of druids, this is a
buff
, not a nerf. You need to look at the bigger picture, not stop at the immediate "oh no, strength is worth less than it was" kneejerk reaction.
Hell, it's a buff for every single one of our weapons - you know the ones with large amounts of feral
attack power
?
Let's take a look at yours,
Dreamer's Dragonstaff
.
Pre-2.3:
( ( (46 * 2.4) + 27 ) * 1.03 ) + 539 =
680.522 AP
Post-2.3:
( ( ( (46 * 2) + 27 ) * 1.03 ) + 539 ) * 1.1 =
727.727 AP
Sure, you lose some AP from strength, since the conversion rate for strength to AP is slightly worse than before. But improved gains from agi and AP more than make up for that.
(cept for t4 gloves, boots, belt, bracers, chest, head)
Say what? No such thing as T4 boots, belt, or bracers. Tier sets from T4 onwards are made up of
5 pieces only
.
i guess after going through the hardwork and crafting primalstrike, it doesnt hurt to keep it.
You make it sound like Primalstrike is oh-so-lousy. Let's take the belt as an example, comparing with what you're using:
Primalstrike Belt pre-2.3: 104.6 AP
Tree-Mender's Belt pre-2.3: 94.554 AP
Primalstrike Belt post-2.3: 115.06 AP
Tree-Mender's Belt post-2.3: 91.773 AP
It was better than Tree-Mender's in pure AP even before the patch, nevermind now. (Slightly worse in crit, but 7agi = 0.28% crit - negligible in the grand scheme of things.)
The bracers were slightly worse pre-2.3 than what you're using, but are now better. Same for the chestpiece. And I've not even calculated the set bonus in the comparison.
Do the math when comparing items, and do the math before calling something a nerf. It's not hard.
Post by
pelf
To the points about the HotW change, is it just me or does it seem like
Nurturing Instinct
needs a change to go with this?
As an aside, in the past leather agi/sta/ap gear with str on it was kind of in the unspoken "domain" of the feral druid. I think this is going to blur those lines a bit more. I'm not sure how I feel about that in the long run. It seems they also even
itemized
gear with respect to the pre-2.3 HotW; should all of that stuff be re-itemized?
Post by
k0rr
primalstrike is wayyy better than the items i'm currently using, i never said it wasnt. thats why i said if you've already crafted it, you might as well use it. but if you had ssc/the eye-level pieces to replace those i'd much rather go with the t4 pieces (the new badge reward belt with the right sockets is better than primal strike belt). and the only reason the +10% AP change wasnt so bad was because they upped the +AP on our feral attack weapons by like 100-200 on each weapon. if those had stayed the same, then it would be a nerf for most people.
Post by
Aeliel
To the points about the HotW change, is it just me or does it seem like
Nurturing Instinct
needs a change to go with this?
Probably, as more druids will be moving towards the agi + AP + sockets kind of gear (which is what Blizzard intends, I would assume, to make it easier to itemize; same as they want, say, Ret paladins to go for "warrior" DPS plate). It would make sense to change it to be some % of total AP.
(Can't say I've seen very many druids taking Nurturing Instinct to begin with, though, but I'm coming at this from a mainly PVE perspective; the talent might have some use in PVP, but I have no clue about that. :) )
and the only reason the +10% AP change wasnt so bad was because they upped the +AP on our feral attack weapons by like 100-200 on each weapon. if those had stayed the same, then it would be a nerf for most people.
Really?
Dreamer's Dragonstaff without the 2.3 change that added extra feral attack power had 46str, 27agi, 423 feral AP.
Pre-2.3: ( ( (46 * 2.4) + 27 ) * 1.03 ) + 423 = 564.522 AP
Post-2.3: ( ( ( (46 * 2) + 27 ) * 1.03 ) + 423 ) * 1.1 = 600.127 AP
Still a buff.
Hell, let's look at the entirety of your current gear, using the pre-2.3 Dreamer's Dragonstaff.
From items, you have a total of 410 strength, 344 agility, 527 attack power, counting the enchants and even the socket bonus on your bracers. You're clearly stacking pure stats, especially strength, to the detriment of attack power. By your reasoning, your total AP should've gotten a nerf, right?
Pre-2.3: ( ( (410 * 2.4) + 344 ) * 1.03 ) + 527 = 1894.84 AP
Post-2.3: ( ( ( (410 * 2) + 344 ) * 1.03 ) + 527 ) * 1.1 = 1898.512 AP
Still
a buff. A very slight buff, but a buff nevertheless.
Post by
pelf
(Can't say I've seen very many druids taking Nurturing Instinct to begin with, though, but I'm coming at this from a mainly PVE perspective; the talent might have some use in PVP, but I have no clue about that. :) )
Yeah, ditto. I've certainly never had it :). But nonetheless it's based on a stat that Blizzard apparently wants to de-prioritize somewhat.
The change has certainly made
Roasted Clefthoof
completely useless whereas in the past it was marginally more useful than pure AP food (which was, itself, marginally useful anyway, for us).
Post by
k0rr
too bad i'm not in cat form, as i have 505 str unbuffed in cat form, but before the hotw change i had 606 (505 * 1.2).
505 = 1010 AP * 1.1 = 1111 AP
606 = 1212 AP
Post by
Aeliel
too bad i'm not in cat form,
You
really
don't get the maths. Did you even bother looking at the calculations?
Whether you are in catform on your armory or not
does not matter
.
I went through each of your items and added strength, agility and attack power together to get your total stat gain from items.
Once I had the values, I converted strength, agility and attack power into your total attack power, by calculating the increases you would get to each stat from feral talents. This was done thus:
To get attack power from strength, the total amount of strength you get from items is multiplied by:
1.03 (for the extra 3% from Survival of the Fittest)
2.4 pre-2.3 (one point of strength = 2AP, plus the 20% from Heart of the Wild), 2 post-2.3 (one point of strength still = 2AP, but the 20% extra from HotW is no longer there)
To get attack power from agility, the total amount of agility you get from items is multiplied by:
1.03 (for the extra 3% from Survival of the Fittest)
Attack power is simply added as-is.
Finally, for post-2.3 calculation, the sum of AP from strength, AP from agility and plain AP gets multiplied by 1.1 (the extra 10% from the new HotW).
In other words:
Pre-2.3
( ( ( strength * 2 * Heart of the Wild ) + agility ) * Survival of the Fittest ) + attack power = total converted AP
Post-2.3
( ( ( ( strength * 2 ) + agility ) * Survival of the Fittest ) + attack power ) * Heart of the Wild = total converted AP
That you lost some strength in catform
does not make it a nerf
. Look at the bigger picture, stop bloody focusing on "boohoo, one of my stats is lower now".
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