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DK Tank Sigil question
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Post by
jwjsmith
Hiya,
One of my guildies has a pretty decently geared DK that he tanks with. I play a Warrior tank and a Disc/Holy priest.
His main problem is threat. Single target, groups, whatever, he can't even keep mobs off mediocre DPS. On my warrior I can outpace him in single target threat by a margin of almost 2 to 1.
This doesn't seem right. Anyway, he's still using the stupid starting sigil and refuses to upgrade for some ridiculous reason. He has 28 triumph emblems and I am trying to convince him to get one of the sigils as right now he is basically wasting an item slot...
So, my question is, which one should he get? The Insolence is obviously amazing, but then again, his survivability means little if he can't hold threat on mobs even in heroics.. hence I was thinking he should get the Virulence. An almost constant 200str would add a big chunk of attack power and a little spillover parry as well.
What are some thoughts on this?
I believe his tank spec is frost of some kind, he uses a 2h weapon.
Post by
328121
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Katsudon
It would probably be a good idea to link armory if you want something information that's better suited to him. Changing 1 sigil won't be enough to suddenly make his threat change enough from the way your describing the situation. If its as bad as it sounds (and hes not horribly undergeared compared to you) then its most likely a playstyle problem
Random note: if your comparing your TPS on the same mob (ie both trying to tank it at the same time) thats unfair because most tanks have reactionary threat abilities (ie: rune strike makes a big difference on TPS and we don't get rune strike procs unless the mob is attacking us) It would be more accurate for you to check your tps when you tank then switch it around and see what his is when he tanks (and your not fighting him for threat).
Post by
Thror
He must be doing something terribly wrong. Frost tanking is lulz simplesauce. You need:
Death and Decay, Howling Blast, Blood Boil + Frost Strike - for AoE
Plagues + Obliterate + Frost Strike + Blood Strike - single target
And of course Rune Strike is macroed to every single button. (how do you recognise a DK tank IRL? he has rune strike macroed to the buttons on his shirt LOLOLO)
I switch to frost spec when i get worse DPS and i can slack-tank the HC dungeon. I sometimes fall asleep when Frost tanking.
I use Blood tanking for runs with good DPS, or when i just want a little more challenge, or flex with higher HP.
I have the ilvl 219 axe from ulduar on my DK, which is not like... an instrument of gargantuan threat, or something.
Maybe your friend is just a really bad player, or something. Posting his armory might also help.
edit: my armory, just in case:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Drak%27thul&n=Thr%C3%B3r
Post by
jwjsmith
Here's his armory too. Thanks for the replies=D
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azuremyst&n=Bigfoot
Post by
Thror
Weapon could use upgrading. Marrowstrike from ToCH HC would be a good upgrade for him.
There is nothing really bad about the talents, but skipping Scent of Blood and Chill of the Grave is not very good imo. As a reference for a good frost tanking spec, i would (of course) suggest my spec, which is in my armory.
He does not use Glyph of Howling Blast. I dont know if its a mandatory glyph, but i cant imagine being Frost without it. My entire rotation is based on the glyph. (for AoE i use a 1 disease rotation, and totally skip diseasing+spreading)
Anyway... i consider myself a somewhat good player, and i dont see a reason why i should generate sub-par threat in that gear. Your friend should rather have a use on his rotations, and make sure he uses some special attack every single cooldown. It takes a while to get the rune management correct.
Post by
Bllets
He does not use Glyph of Howling Blast. I dont know if its a mandatory glyph, but i cant imagine being Frost without it. My entire rotation is based on the glyph. (for AoE i use a 1 disease rotation, and totally skip diseasing+spreading)
If for some weird reason i should spec Frost over Blood again for tanking, i wouldn't pick GoHB either unless if it was for HC's. Though it creates more burst threat, i don't have any trouble now as blood with it, so i doubt i would have as Frost, even without the glyph.
Post by
124746
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
neomasterc
Glyph of Howling Blast is a mandatory glyph for frost tanking. You don't icy touch, so you're not getting frost fever on mobs without it.
you dont IT becuz ur using HB instead of IT.
u can easy IT>PS>OB>BS>BS>FS etc etc etc
ur trying to justify a point assuming the point is already true. lil logical fallacy there.
anyways yeah its totally doable for single tanking w/o GoHB for frost tanking.
however i dont know why u would do that, since blood is a better MT/single tank anyways and the reason i see for going frost is aoe tank, so GoHB is basically mandatory.
@jwjsmith- how much tps is he pulling? is he binding his rune strike to all his keys?
idk i used to tank as frost, and could pull ~6k tps easy on a single target fight.
now as blood, tho i dont have that much instant threat generation, i can maintain ~7k+ tps after i start RSing.
Post by
sunwukung
My DK is dual spec'ed for frost and blood tanking. While I do have HB glyphed for frost tanking, if I happen to be a single target as frost, I always IT, PS over HB. For single target frost tanking, I only HB when rime procs. 2 diseases is always better than one. I rarely use PS in an aoe fight situation but if I do, I make sure to Pestilance it around to the rest of the mobs.
Frost is definately the superior AoE tank spec for numerous reasons being Glyphed HB, Rime, KM procs and the higher avoidance(3%miss) which is huge with multiple adds swinging at you.
A well played DK can single target tank as frost just as well as a blood tank but blood as the advantage of not relying on spells for threat but mainly physical strikes. As a blood tank, you have the advantage of IBP and VB for increased healing done to you. You most likely won't notice the -3%miss your losing from not being frost in a single target fight.
I have single tanked Ony10 and Anub10 as frost for better add control. But for the rest of ToC10, I tank as blood, except champions, then I go with my frost tank spec. None of my regular healers have any issues with my tanking, in either spec, but then again I have quality healers behind me.
Post by
Bllets
As a blood tank, you have the advantage of IBP
Improved Blood presence only works in blood presence, so it's useless tank talents.
however i dont know why u would do that, since blood is a better MT/single tank anyways and the reason i see for going frost is aoe tank, so GoHB is basically mandatory.
Frost has the advantage of higher Avoidance/Mitigation, and can easily hold aggro on single targets as well. But as said, "If for some weird reason i should spec Frost over Blood", as in I'll pretty much never go Frost.
If i need a AoE tank i'll bring a pala or druid. :>
Post by
jwjsmith
Well, he's gotten a lot better now. Actually made it through almost all of Uld 10 last night with him tanking and his threat gen is a lot better... unfortunately he got the stupid conquest sigil and spent his triumph emblems on some gloves, gloves of all pieces, why not shoulders. Silly DK's...
Post by
sunwukung
As a blood tank, you have the advantage of IBP
Improved Blood presence only works in blood presence, so it's useless tank talents.
Please don't post anymore because clearly you have no idea what your talking about.
Improved Blood Presense
. Heals on you while in FP are 4% stronger. Every 1K hp your healed is actually 1040HP. Looking at it like that may not seem like much but over the course of a boss, that extra 4% will probably equal 1000's of extra of heal. IBP is actually an increase in EH.
however i dont know why u would do that, since blood is a better MT/single tank anyways and the reason i see for going frost is aoe tank, so GoHB is basically mandatory.
Frost has the advantage of higher Avoidance/Mitigation, and can easily hold aggro on single targets as well. But as said, "If for some weird reason i should spec Frost over Blood", as in I'll pretty much never go Frost.
If i need a AoE tank i'll bring a pala or druid. :>
Well played Frost tanks are equally as good has pallies or druids. Frost DK's have way better snap agro that druids. I've even seen a warrior solo tank Ony10. Every tank has AoE, it is just that some are better at it than others. I would say actually that pally>frost dK> druid/warrior and the only reason pallies win is because they faceroll, while to effectively DK tank you have to have skill.
Post by
Bllets
Please don't post anymore because clearly you have no idea what your talking about. Improved Blood Presense. Heals on you while in FP are 4% stronger. Every 1K hp your healed is actually 1040HP. Looking at it like that may not seem like much but over the course of a boss, that extra 4% will probably equal 1000's of extra of heal. IBP is actually an increase in EH.
No. You need to learn what the actually talents do
Blood Presence:
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=48266
, do you see anywhere where it says 4% extra healing received?
And clearly states in the IBP tooltip: "you retain 4% healing from Blood Presence".
The 4% means that 4% of ALL the damage you do to others, will come back as healing. It's not 4% more healing received. It's like 100 hps, giving a total of 50 hps pr. talent.
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