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Death Knight moral issues?
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Post by
Derichian
i might re-roll several deathknights just so i can redo the torture quest repeatedly =D
Post by
178741
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
prupparna
well, first off its just a game, its not like you are killing real people, or anything like that, they were made to be killed lol, im not evil or anything i just think its funny when people start to act like games are the real thing
Even if it's just a game for you, there might be much more than that for other people.
It depends how other people think, reasonates and acts, all of those see games different.
Post by
prupparna
I saw this post over on the WoW General Forums.
Could contain spoilers for the DK starting quests.
I don't want to give out all the cool parts of the death knight starting area. But at the same time I think people need to be aware of something.
Unless the quests change radically, I won't be rolling a death knight in the expansion.
The problem is that the quests are unambiguously evil. And you have no option to make moral choices. What I'm talking about here isn't the usual Warcraft. You are forced to steal, murder, and torture, and it is presented as such. The quest text goes out of it's way to make sure you don't misunderstand what's going on.
There were several quests last night in beta where I almost decided not to continue. Specifically -
- The quest where I am forced to murder civilians who don't fight back.
- The quest where I am forced to torture people to extract information.
- The quest where I am forced to murder my unarmed friend.
I understand that it's called World of *Warcraft*. And I understand that for the last 3.5 years I've been slaughtering creatures who did nothing other than carry loot I wanted. But this seems to have been designed with the sole intent of making sure I'm evil. Well....... I'm not evil. If the bridge will explode if I don't torture someone, then the bridge will explode. If the mission fails because I won't murder civilians who don't fight back, then the mission will fail.
The problem with the current DK quests is that I'm not given that choice. If you want a death knight you *must* murder and torture people, and it will be presented as murder and torture. Thus, I won't be rolling a death knight unless some serious changes are made.
This could be a touchy subject, but since the WoW forums are crawling with blithering idiots and trolls, I'm curious what you all think.
Honestly, I think the storyline looks incredibly immersive, and I like the dark/corupt theme. I really want to try it out at the least, but I don't know if I could go through the whole Death Knight area if the quests contain as much torture/killing civilians as this guys makes them out to.
They will respawn :)
Post by
54423
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Post by
184879
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Post by
archaicstigma
I saw this post over on the WoW General Forums.
Could contain spoilers for the DK starting quests.
I don't want to give out all the cool parts of the death knight starting area. But at the same time I think people need to be aware of something.
Unless the quests change radically, I won't be rolling a death knight in the expansion.
The problem is that the quests are unambiguously evil. And you have no option to make moral choices. What I'm talking about here isn't the usual Warcraft. You are forced to steal, murder, and torture, and it is presented as such. The quest text goes out of it's way to make sure you don't misunderstand what's going on.
There were several quests last night in beta where I almost decided not to continue. Specifically -
- The quest where I am forced to murder civilians who don't fight back.
- The quest where I am forced to torture people to extract information.
- The quest where I am forced to murder my unarmed friend.
I understand that it's called World of *Warcraft*. And I understand that for the last 3.5 years I've been slaughtering creatures who did nothing other than carry loot I wanted. But this seems to have been designed with the sole intent of making sure I'm evil. Well....... I'm not evil. If the bridge will explode if I don't torture someone, then the bridge will explode. If the mission fails because I won't murder civilians who don't fight back, then the mission will fail.
The problem with the current DK quests is that I'm not given that choice. If you want a death knight you *must* murder and torture people, and it will be presented as murder and torture. Thus, I won't be rolling a death knight unless some serious changes are made.
This could be a touchy subject, but since the WoW forums are crawling with blithering idiots and trolls, I'm curious what you all think.
Honestly, I think the storyline looks incredibly immersive, and I like the dark/corupt theme. I really want to try it out at the least, but I don't know if I could go through the whole Death Knight area if the quests contain as much torture/killing civilians as this guys makes them out to.
They're
DEATH
Knights of course they do evil stuff, as for your whole moral thing it's a video game and is totally optional if you don't want to do death knight quests don't play a death knight.
=_
Post by
184848
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Post by
42580
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Post by
154460
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Post by
137804
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Post by
Eliel
Bla bla bla "It's a Death Knight, not a Bunny Hugging Knight".
That doesn't change the fact that people want to play the game for different reasons. Some people want to be evil, some people want to play good, some people just don't give a ^&*!. That doesn't make anyone wrong, it makes them different.
Yes, Death Knights have a big scary name, and were FORMERLY under the Lich King's control (given this quest line is supposed to be a past montage, or so I've heard), but they could have had it is a cinematic, and you start taking control when the Death Knight starts breaking free of the Lich King's control. They could have changed it any way they want, Blizzard is designing the game. However, they made these quests so that your ONLY CHOICE in playing a class is to actively choose to murder (not just kill, but murder) in cold blood and to torture people.
There is no questline, no quest itself like this in which you are FORCED to act in this way to experience a SIGNIFICANT part of the games content.
They're not objecting that there are evil questlines - there are already, and you could choose to do it, or to skip it. Their problem is to experience a SIGNIFICANT part of the game (Death Knight is 10% of all classes, which is statistically significant), you are FORCED to commit these acts when it COULD HAVE BEEN DESIGNED DIFFERENTLY.
See, the place where all the arguments against them are falling down is they are assuming the current design to be a fixed construct, something that can't be changed, where it could have been designed any number of ways, they CHOSE to FORCE you to do these things to play the class.
So, while I'll be playing a DK guilt-free, the poster has a very good argument, and most people are too blinded by "zomg I gets to be evil" or "zomg shiny new" to see it.
Post by
MrFredII
Bla bla bla "It's a Death Knight, not a Bunny Hugging Knight".
There is no questline, no quest itself like this in which you are FORCED to act in this way to experience a SIGNIFICANT part of the games content.
They're not objecting that there are evil questlines - there are already, and you could choose to do it, or to skip it. Their problem is to experience a SIGNIFICANT part of the game (Death Knight is 10% of all classes, which is statistically significant), you are FORCED to commit these acts when it COULD HAVE BEEN DESIGNED DIFFERENTLY.
See, the place where all the arguments against them are falling down is they are assuming the current design to be a fixed construct, something that can't be changed, where it could have been designed any number of ways, they CHOSE to FORCE you to do these things to play the class.
This is the central point of debate. My objections are with Blizzard not allowing choice in this specific matter, Well said.
Post by
192451
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42580
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182368
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Post by
Ilovemuffins
bump
from 42 mins
Post by
Eliel
All arguments for forced carnage in the DK quest chain are null and void until you can argue against the points I made.
See:
http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=33289.7#p341152
Get to it, or as many of you have said, stfu. That's right, I'm calling you all out. Either you debate me, and best me, or you're wrong. Surely it can't be that hard, there's so many more of you!
Get to it.
Post by
Fabia23
I saw this post over on the WoW General Forums.
Could contain spoilers for the DK starting quests.
I don't want to give out all the cool parts of the death knight starting area. But at the same time I think people need to be aware of something.
Unless the quests change radically, I won't be rolling a death knight in the expansion.
The problem is that the quests are unambiguously evil. And you have no option to make moral choices. What I'm talking about here isn't the usual Warcraft. You are forced to steal, murder, and torture, and it is presented as such. The quest text goes out of it's way to make sure you don't misunderstand what's going on.
There were several quests last night in beta where I almost decided not to continue. Specifically -
- The quest where I am forced to murder civilians who don't fight back.
- The quest where I am forced to torture people to extract information.
- The quest where I am forced to murder my unarmed friend.
I understand that it's called World of *Warcraft*. And I understand that for the last 3.5 years I've been slaughtering creatures who did nothing other than carry loot I wanted. But this seems to have been designed with the sole intent of making sure I'm evil. Well....... I'm not evil. If the bridge will explode if I don't torture someone, then the bridge will explode. If the mission fails because I won't murder civilians who don't fight back, then the mission will fail.
The problem with the current DK quests is that I'm not given that choice. If you want a death knight you *must* murder and torture people, and it will be presented as murder and torture. Thus, I won't be rolling a death knight unless some serious changes are made.
This could be a touchy subject, but since the WoW forums are crawling with blithering idiots and trolls, I'm curious what you all think.
Honestly, I think the storyline looks incredibly immersive, and I like the dark/corupt theme. I really want to try it out at the least, but I don't know if I could go through the whole Death Knight area if the quests contain as much torture/killing civilians as this guys makes them out to.
Well horde dont got a problem being evil so :) i would acturally enjoy this.
*tsk* typhical lore players :-)
Post by
Celdhyrean
All arguments for forced carnage in the DK quest chain are null and void until you can argue against the points I made.
See:
http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=33289.7#p341152
Way to pimp your point of view... It's a bit sad that your whole argument is void too.
Since it seems that "they could change it" is the crux of your argument, it fails completely because there's nothing anyone can oppose to it. Anything can be changed. The question is wether they should, what compelling arguments there are to do it that way or another. Provide those instead of saying "i don't want to be forced to do something".
Because else you open the door to :
Levelling from 1 to 70 is a torture to me, they could change it and thus they
should
change it !
Killing innocent animals/people is a torture to me 'cause i'm a pacifist, i want to be able to level without killing or helping to kill anything.
And that's how we come back at the double standard argument that we've already seen several times before and hasn't been adressed either by the "torture opponents".
You can't experience the content at all without killing (or getting killed). Let's be generous and suppose that exploration and delivery quests will take you up to level 30. Cool, now you're there and can fish, gather herbs, mine, chat and AH, and that's it (and not even highest level mats).
THIS "HAVE TO KILL" RULE IS PREVENTING ME OF SEEING SIGNIFICANT CONTENT FROM THE GAME !111! I AM FORCED TO COMMIT THESE ACTS OF VIOLENCE ! BLIZZARD COULD HAVE DESIGNED IT DIFFERENTLY !11!
THEY HAVE TO CATER TO MY NON-VIOLENT WAYS !
Once again, you people accept killing without batting an eyelash (and there were certainly some innocent creatures beings amongst all of those you killed) but object to torture.
They might end up changing it due to opinion pressure and whatnot. I'll still consider those aiming to get that change to be completely hypocritical.
---
As to my arguments for why this is a reasonnable implementation and i don't see any reason to change it :
DK's are the first class that starts at 55. ie they have already fought, have a past and all that and are currently controlled. All other classes start at level 1, ie are nobodies that never did a damn thing. The DK quest chain takes place in the past whereas you're always in the present with other classes.
I think that's enough to justify the fact that they want to shape your background somewhat more than the non-existent thing you have when starting a level 1 character, and that having this difference between being forced to do quests and having the choice (during the starting zone) is reasonnable.
Sure torture is not required. Nothing is ever required. So what ? It's their choice and i think it's well done.
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