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Chrono Trigger Inspiration
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Post by
Discolando
I whipped out Chrono Trigger the other day and after reliving some of the fun of dual and triple tech abilities, I wondered... would a similar system be viable in WoW? Could it be fun, easy to use, and introduce new variety to the game?
What abilities would you like to see combined? The first things that pop in my head, some crazier than others:
* Bonus given to targets that have Power Word: Shield and Sacred Shield on them concurrently.
* Bonus damage taken to targets under the effects of Consecrate and Death and Decay.
* Increase the duration of all HoTs by 10% when the target is affected by Renew and Regrowth.
* Using Fan of Knives while under the effects of a HoT causes each strike to heal nearby party/raid members.
Granted, the sheer amount of classes, specs, and abilities would produce a staggering amount of possible permutations, but discovering all of the possibilities would be a part of the fun, too. Perhaps limiting the options to a handful of core spells per class would help alleviate being overwhelmed.
Post by
YesterdaysHero
No. Just...just no.
Post by
Discolando
No. Just...just no.
Fair enough, but why?
Post by
Erethzium
No. Just...just no.
Fair enough, but why?
Because every single "combo" would be active, during 25-man raids.
Post by
Discolando
Because every single "combo" would be active, during 25-man raids.
Not possible. Not every raid is going to have one of every spec of every class and not all players are doing the same things. Just the few examples I gave would require specific classes performing specific functions. Take this example:
Using Fan of Knives while under the effects of a HoT causes each strike to heal nearby party/raid members.
This would require a healer actively casting a HoT on a rogue before or during their using FoK. That's not something that would happen automatically, even in a 25 man raid. If two classes were capable of working together to create a new function, in this case, converting a HoT and an AoE attack into an AoE heal, I would consider that a fun and rewarding mechanic.
I'm not saying that the overall concept is something that would ever make it into WoW, but I certainly think it's worthy of more than just a hand wave and a dismissal.
Post by
Unwake
Well, to be honest it can be hard enough getting a good group together. Let alone the massive addition in coordinating this would cause.
You see, they had something like this in FFXI, where depending on what weapon you had you could use certain skills. If you could activate compatible skill sets in, I think it was, two seconds of the last skill used then you would get a combo for more damage.
Honestly it was a massive pain. You see, assuming you or some one else in group knew a viable combo, you needed to keep everyone on the same page. This meant spam during combat about how charged up the skill gauge was. A mid fight ready check, and finally a brief warning about the skill actually activating.
Now You could probably cut that in half since WoW and FFXI had very different mechanics. But a competent group will be necessary to pull anything like that off. And if you pug a lot, well, It's just not going to happen.
Post by
Discolando
I agree that coordinating the various possible combos would be challenging, but I would see it as a reward for having a competent group in the first place. :)
Post by
11berto11
You see, they had something like this in FFXI, where depending on what weapon you had you could use certain skills. If you could activate compatible skill sets in, I think it was, two seconds of the last skill used then you would get a combo for more damage.
For those of you interested it's based off of
this
chart.
I can't imagine how successful a similar system would be in wow, but it's a cool concept.
Post by
MischievousLoki
I agree that coordinating the various possible combos would be challenging, but I would see it as a reward for having a competent group in the first place. :)
It's the polar opposite of what blizzard is toting as it's raid comp policy: "Bring the player, not the class."
Post by
Discolando
It's the polar opposite of what blizzard is toting as it's raid comp policy: "Bring the player, not the class."
If you were to create combos based off of types of abilities (ie, HoT + AoE = AoE Heal) and not classes than that ceases to be an issue.
Post by
MischievousLoki
It's the polar opposite of what blizzard is toting as it's raid comp policy: "Bring the player, not the class."
If you were to create combos based off of types of abilities (ie, HoT + AoE = AoE Heal) and not classes than that ceases to be an issue.
Wrong.
I would elaborate on how you're wrong, but your statement was too vague to give a specific example.
Post by
xaratherus
Back when I first started playing MMOs (as I've said before), I was an avid fan of City of Heroes. There were a lot of things that Cryptic and NCSoft did wrong with that game, which is why I eventually left to come to WoW on a permanent basis.
They did, however, do a few things correctly, and one of them was some very unobtrusive combo attacks. The one that I remember most clearly was the "flaming oil slick": The Archer powerset included an Oil Slick arrow that caused a targeted AoE slow effect on any enemy in the area; any fire-based attack from a character would light the oil slick patch on fire, adding a DoT component to the slow.
Blizzard already does this to an extent, in vehicular combat: Choppers in the Flame Lootviathan fight can drop oil patches that can be lit on fire by the weapons on other vehicles.
While the synergies would be difficult to work out, I wouldn't see a problem with this as long as the combinations make sense - and that's where the bugaboo comes in: Lighting oil on fire is logical, but healing with with a wave of throwing knives isn't really.
It's the polar opposite of what blizzard is toting as it's raid comp policy: "Bring the player, not the class."
As long as the combinations were not so powerful that they became
required
for any given encounter, this would not be an issue.
Besides that, there is already one piece of evidence that Blizzard has no problem bending this rule when they want to do so: Instructor Razuvious in 25-man. You have
no
way to do the encounter unless you have at least one Priest in the group - preferably two.*
*Granted, this ^&*!es me off and I think it's rather silly to have left the encounter this way, but it is what it is.
Post by
Discolando
I would elaborate on how you're wrong...
Please, try.
Post by
Discolando
Lighting oil on fire is logical, but healing with with a wave of throwing knives isn't really.
I use that example because there is a combo in Chrono Trigger that does this exact thing. I agree that it's not immediately logical but to me it's creative and an example of how to provice new possible gameplay styles without having to introduce a litany of new spells or abilities.
Post by
MischievousLoki
As long as the combinations were not so powerful that they became
required
for any given encounter, this would not be an issue.Not much in this game is
required
. However, that didn't stop most BC raids from putting a shadow priest in every caster group and BM hunters in all other DPS groups.
If it's worthwhile to make, it's worthwhile to try to utilize. If it's worthwhile, it's as good as necessary in raids.
If it was just flavor and had no overall usefulness, it's a waste of time (just make spells cast prettier color lights).
Regardless of all of the above, this game is constantly being rebalanced and tweaked to try keep things as even as possible. You know how that's working out for them right now, right? Throwing something like this in now would be like dropping a twenty ton truck of monkey wrenches on the development offices.
Post by
xaratherus
As long as the combinations were not so powerful that they became
required
for any given encounter, this would not be an issue.Not much in this game is
required
. However, that didn't stop most BC raids from putting a shadow priest in every caster group and BM hunters in all other DPS groups.
If it's worthwhile to make, it's worthwhile to try to utilize. If it's worthwhile, it's as good as necessary in raids.
If it was just flavor and had no overall usefulness, it's a waste of time (just make spells cast prettier color lights).
And people still want Hunters to have a particular type of pet because of the buff it gives to your DPS group; they also still want at least one of a particular class that can offer the Replenishment buff so that their mana users can cast for a longer time.
By that argument they should never make any change to the game because
if
it offers any sort of utility then it
might
be considered as "omfgmusthave" by the player base. Unless it's purely cosmetic the change might move them away from "player, not class" - even though they've already proven that this is nigh-impossible. They either had to nerf those abilities so that they weren't "required", or they had to offer them to other classes so that you had more than one option to do so.
Regardless of all of the above, this game is constantly being rebalanced and tweaked to try keep things as even as possible. You know how that's working out for them right now, right? Throwing something like this in now would be like dropping a twenty ton truck of monkey wrenches on the development offices.
That doesn't make it a bad idea - it just means that it's a bad idea to implement
right now
.
Post by
MischievousLoki
And people still want Hunters to have a particular type of pet because of the buff it gives to your DPS group;There is no hunter pet buff that isn't given as a base ability by at least one other class (usually it's in a superior form when given by another class) they also still want at least one of a particular class that can offer the Replenishment buff so that their mana users can cast for a longer time.
Yeah, they do. But they also put a replenishment talent in so many classes it's hard
not
to have it now. And replenishment is a replacement for a much more skewed mechanic (Vampiric Touch in it's original itteration.)
By your argument they should never make any change to the game because
if
it offers any sort of utility then it
might
be considered as "omfgmusthave" by the player base.
No, I'm saying they shouldn't add a new mechanic that makes certain classes stack with other certain classes in special ways
right after they just got rid of all that crap at the start of this expansion
. Way to work backwards.
Post by
Discolando
No, I'm saying they shouldn't add a new mechanic that makes certain classes stack with other certain classes in special ways...
Actually, my original thought was a mechanic that allows
all
possible permutations of class abilities to have some kind of combo/stacking ability. For example, the HoT + FoK could very well be a HoT + Consecrate - Any HoT + AoE ability would produce the final result. A bit different than what you're arguing against.
Post by
MischievousLoki
No, I'm saying they shouldn't add a new mechanic that makes certain classes stack with other certain classes in special ways...
Actually, my original thought was a mechanic that allows
all
possible permutations of class abilities to have some kind of combo/stacking ability. For example, the HoT + FoK could very well be a HoT + Consecrate - Any HoT + AoE ability would produce the final result. A bit different than what you're arguing against.
No it's not; That's exactly what I'm arguing against.
The only way that would be easily balanced is if every class was exactly the same in all respect but names.
Fan of Knives isn't just the rogue version of Consecration. Since all ten classes (thirty main class/spec combos) are different, it would require
very extensive
balancing work to prevent the problems that ran rampant in BC.
Post by
132718
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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