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Cenarius & The Horde: Old wounds reopened ?
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Post by
454651
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Post by
178827
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Post by
chase123
I think Thrall makes Garrosh Warchief to keep Garrosh busy so he doesnt wtfpwn Cenarius when he comes back from the Emerald Dream.
Post by
454651
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Post by
Kalisha
if Malfurion is somehow leaving the Emerald Dream then i would think his mentor would be following, well i hope so anyway.
Malfurion didn't die to get there, so you can't compare the two. Cenarius doesn't have a body to return to. It may be possible that, given enough time, Cenarius can recover entirely and create a new body for himself - but as far as we know his spirit is busy fighting the corruption in the Emerald Dream. Returning from the Dream would be counterproductive.
Also i think its stupid how Grom beat Cenarius, an Orc high on demon blood vs a god ?
Demigod.
Post by
Arikan
- Orcs tried to murder him
Um... Orcs
did
murder him. Is he gonna be in Cataclysm? That would look weird. Also, Garrosh...
Wowwiki.com says his " spirit " is in the Emerald Dream, if Malfurion is somehow leaving the Emerald Dream then i would think his mentor would be following, well i hope so anyway.
Technically this is correct, while Cenarius' body was destroyed his spirit lives on in the Emerald Dream and it is possible it could manifest in a new body.
Also i think its stupid how Grom beat Cenarius, an Orc high on demon blood vs a god ?
Cenarius is a demigod, not a god. The definition of demigod is extremely vague most anywhere, anytime it is used, but it generally means something really powerful, but not a "full god". Grom was one of the most skilled Orc warriors, and was additionally enchanced by the Blood of Mannoroth. IN fact it says specifically about drinking the blood:
After imbibing, the Warsongs were transformed into powerful chaos orcs who could stand up to the might of Cenarius.
That's from wowwiki just above the part that you used to defend Cenarius' spirit being able to re-manifest itself.
Also, this is Warcraft, "actual" gods have been killed by random groups of players (Old Gods C'Thun, Yogg-Saron?), I totally buy a lesser being then those being defeated by a powerful, skilled chaos Orc essentially designed to defeat them.
Now, to the last part about him being hostile to the Horde, I would tend to disagree.
- Grom was corrupted by the Burning Legion when he attacked Cenarius. Shortly after in WCIII, the non-demonic Orcs hunted down the Legion forces, including the corrupted Orcs, and defeated them. Grom then sacrificed himself to kill Mannoroth. I'd give Cenarius enough credit to not blame the Horde as a whole for the actions of, essentially, agents of the Legion when the Horde worked to immediatley hunt them down and defeat them.
- There is one Blood Elf who offers quests against his children. One. With all of old-world Azeroth getting reworked quests are going to be shuffled around, it'd be very easy for that small chain to up and go away. Also, it's very clear from the quest dialog that this Blood Elf is NOT really with the Horde. Read the description.
http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=1087
- The Horde deforestation is Ashenvale is a legitimate complaint, since that's what irked Cenarious the first time. The problem is that now some mild deforestation is being compared to the massive world-wide destruction of the Cataclysm. Lesser of two evils.
- I really don't see why WSG means that Cenarius has to be against the Horde.
The CENARION Circle/Expedition are neutral factions dedicated to helping heal and protect the world. Many Tauren are members, and the Cenarion factions have recieved endless help from both the Alliance and the Horde. I have a feeling that when the world is being actively destroyed by Deathwing the Horde's help is going to be, maybe not welcomed with open arms, but simply needed.
Post by
TheMediator
Cenarius wasn't beaten by just Grom - he had a legion of fel orc warriors assisting him in the kill.
I wouldn't really call C'thun and Yogg-saron "Gods" either. At least, not in the state we find them. Neither of them are fully regenerated to their full power.
I'd give Cenarius enough credit to not blame the Horde as a whole for the actions of, essentially, agents of the Legion when the Horde worked to immediatley hunt them down and defeat them.
You know, Cenarius attacked the orcs in the first place. That's why the orcs drunk the blood, to save their people from annihilation at the hands of a then invincible being
Post by
Arikan
Cenarius wasn't beaten by just Grom - he had a legion of fel orc warriors assisting him in the kill.
Both Cenarius and Grom did have an army backing them up. The forces of Grom defeated the forces of Cenarius, but it does state that Cenarius was personally killed by Grom.
I wouldn't really call C'thun and Yogg-saron "Gods" either. At least, not in the state we find them. Neither of them are fully regenerated to their full power.
Um, they're defined everywhere as Old Gods. Just because they are not at full power does not mean they are not Old Gods, just Old Gods who have been weakened. Still Old Gods. My point still stands, if Old Gods (even weakened) can be defeated by a group of random adventurers, it's not unreasonable that a lesser demigod would be defeated by an army of demonic-empowered supercharged Orcs lead by one of the most powerful Orc warriors ever.
You know, Cenarius attacked the orcs in the first place. That's why the orcs drunk the blood, to save their people from annihilation at the hands of a then invincible being
The Orcs had been hacking the Ancients up for lumber and killing any Night Elves who tried to interfere, I'd hardly call Cenarius' attack unprovoked. Granted that's an argument for Cenarius being against the Horde, but given all the events that immedialtey followed in WCIII (Thrall, Cairne, and Jaina leading forces to destroy the renegade band of Orcs that did it) and everything up until "present" in WoW would negate that.
Post by
104395
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Post by
BuryYourDead
The Orcs had been hacking the Ancients up for lumber and killing any Night Elves who tried to interfere, I'd hardly call Cenarius' attack unprovoked. Granted that's an argument for Cenarius being against the Horde, but given all the events that immedialtey followed in WCIII (Thrall, Cairne, and Jaina leading forces to destroy the renegade band of Orcs that did it) and everything up until "present" in WoW would negate that.
Acctually, the orcs where harvesting lumber, and unaware that the night Elves had the land. Cenarius then decided since he was so awesome, to raise the lumber as Treant and attack the orcs, and send his forces and destroyed the outlying bases. The orcs attacked back in retaliation to survive. a witch doctor told grom of the power, but they were unaware it was demon blood.
Post by
Arikan
unaware that the night Elves had the land.
No
a witch doctor told grom of the power, but they were unaware it was demon blood
No
Go play WCIII again and run that level. Once they get to the fountain they figure out it is in fact demon blood, and some of the Orcs argue against Grom, but he goes ahead anyway.
Post by
BuryYourDead
unaware that the night Elves had the land.
No
a witch doctor told grom of the power, but they were unaware it was demon blood
No
Go play WCIII again and run that level. Once they get to the fountain they figure out it is in fact demon blood, and some of the Orcs argue against Grom, but he goes ahead anyway.
I think you misunderstood what i meant. I mean, that the Orcs didn't intentionally know they where ancients as they looked like trees. I played the mission MANY of times and i recall the two orcs talking at the start, with one claiming ghosts where watching them. At that point they didn't know what was in store. They where unaware they where night elf forces. AND the witch doctor didnt know it was Demon blood UNTIL they reached the fountain. All he could sense was tremendous power.
Post by
Arikan
I think you misunderstood what i meant. I mean, that the Orcs didn't intentionally know they where ancients as they looked like trees. I played the mission MANY of times and i recall the two orcs talking at the start, with one claiming ghosts where watching them. At that point they didn't know what was in store. They where unaware they where night elf forces. AND the witch doctor didnt know it was Demon blood UNTIL they reached the fountain. All he could sense was tremendous power.
During the course of their harvesting they did encounter Night Elves trying to interfere, so they became aware of the Night Elves but kept going ahead with the harvesting.
Same thing with the blood fountain (though here we're both saying the same thing) they didn't know it was demon blood until they reached the fountain, but they DID know it was demon blood BEFORE they drank it, which is kind of a key point that your first post kind of left out.
In both cases they didn't know what they were getting into at the outset, but once they did Grom plowed ahead anyway without stopping to think or reconsider or anything.
Post by
SignupSucks
The definition of demigod is extremely vague most anywhere, anytime it is used, but it generally means something really powerful, but not a "full god".
Gods in the Warcraft universe are pretty vague as well. Ursoc, Yogg-Saron, Elune, and the Earthmother for example, have all been described as Gods, yet obviously Ursoc and Yogg Saron can be slain, even by mortal means. Elune is probably closest to the real-world definition of a God (a singularly immortal being of incredible power who's will shapes the world), but has so little direct influence it is hard to know just how much her power extends. Contrast with the Earthmother, who may not even be a singular being, instead just the personification of nature itself. The dragon aspects have such great influence over the world they probably rival or surpass many of the demigods in Azeroth's history, yet are never described as such. The Naaru empower all worshipers of light (read: priests and paladins) yet are not described as gods.
In other words, the criteria for defining something as a 'demigod', 'god', or other 'being of power' is so vague it hardly matters what terms you use.
Post by
454651
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Post by
451455
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Post by
soswou
What about Elune ? There seems to be alot of speculation around her being existent or not but if Cenarius is her son ( which he is ) then she has to be existent right ?
Kinda wish as the fight was happening between Grom & Cenarius that Elune intervened and pwned Grom's face, she is afterall Cenarius's mother lol.
I think Ashenvale will eventually be retaken further down the track with Elune's intervention with Malorne & Cenarius.
Elune is not Cenarius' mother Cenarius is the child of the green dragon aspect, Ysera, and Malorne, the wight stag.
Post by
454651
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Post by
454651
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Post by
soswou
From WoWwiki.com:
Many fans theorized that Elune and Ysera are the same being, since they are both described as the mother of Cenarius and show great compassion for the lesser races. However, writer Richard A. Knaak has confirmed that they are NOT the same. See this thread by the owner of Blizzplanet for more details (also excerpted locally in the Birth and Children section of the article on Cenarius).
The Warcraft encyclopedia also confirms that they are separate entities, Elune being Cenarius's mother and Ysera being his teacher.
Could you explain one thing to me then, Why in the World of Warcraft book
The Sundering
is it stated that Ysera is his mother and there is no mention of her only being his teacher/Shan'do
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